Athena widgets - Xwindows

This is a discussion on Athena widgets - Xwindows ; Hi, I'm looking for the X Athena widgets set example programs. According to the Xaw - C language interface documentation, they can be found in contrib/examples/mit/Xaw in X11R6 distributions, but I can't find them in current releases (tried Xorg and ...

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Thread: Athena widgets

  1. Athena widgets

    Hi,

    I'm looking for the X Athena widgets set example programs. According to
    the Xaw - C language interface documentation, they can be found in
    contrib/examples/mit/Xaw in X11R6 distributions, but I can't find them
    in current releases (tried Xorg and XFree86). Do you know where I can
    download them ?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. Re: Athena widgets


    Julien wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm looking for the X Athena widgets set example programs. According to
    > the Xaw - C language interface documentation, they can be found in
    > contrib/examples/mit/Xaw in X11R6 distributions, but I can't find them
    > in current releases (tried Xorg and XFree86). Do you know where I can
    > download them ?


    You may dig at

    http://ftp.x.org/contrib/

    and

    http://ftp.x.org/contrib/widgets/

    but be warned that there is a lot of outdated software there. Xaw
    is currently almost abandoneware. Motif is the only Xt-based toolkit
    still in use, but even it is being phased-out.

    --- Casantos


  3. Re: Athena widgets

    nojunk@gate.cpmet.ufpel.tche.br wrote:
    > Julien wrote:
    >
    >>Hi,
    >>
    >>I'm looking for the X Athena widgets set example programs. According to
    >>the Xaw - C language interface documentation, they can be found in
    >>contrib/examples/mit/Xaw in X11R6 distributions, but I can't find them
    >>in current releases (tried Xorg and XFree86). Do you know where I can
    >>download them ?

    >
    > You may dig at
    >
    > http://ftp.x.org/contrib/
    > and
    > http://ftp.x.org/contrib/widgets/
    >
    > but be warned that there is a lot of outdated software there. Xaw
    > is currently almost abandoneware. Motif is the only Xt-based toolkit
    > still in use, but even it is being phased-out.


    In favor of what?

  4. Re: Athena widgets


    Russell Shaw wrote:
    > nojunk@gate.cpmet.ufpel.tche.br wrote:

    ---8<---
    > > but be warned that there is a lot of outdated software there. Xaw
    > > is currently almost abandoneware. Motif is the only Xt-based toolkit
    > > still in use, but even it is being phased-out.

    >
    > In favor of what?


    Mostly Gtk and Qt. Even thoug motif is available for free today, either
    by means of Open Motif or Lesstif, there are few end-user applications
    available. Some years ago I used to have several Motif applications
    running on my workstation. RealPlayer, Netscape Navigator, Acrobat
    Reader and Xmgr (nee Grace) were my preferred ones. I don't use
    grace anymore because it is not necessary for my current job. All the
    other ones now use Gtk (with Navigator replaced by Mozilla Firefox).

    It's sad, but it's true.

    --- Casantos


  5. Re: Athena widgets

    In comp.windows.x, nojunk@gate.cpmet.ufpel.tche.br

    wrote
    on 18 Feb 2006 04:10:49 -0800
    <1140264649.452594.233660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>:
    >
    > Russell Shaw wrote:
    >> nojunk@gate.cpmet.ufpel.tche.br wrote:

    > ---8<---
    >> > but be warned that there is a lot of outdated software there. Xaw
    >> > is currently almost abandoneware. Motif is the only Xt-based toolkit
    >> > still in use, but even it is being phased-out.

    >>
    >> In favor of what?

    >
    > Mostly Gtk and Qt. Even thoug motif is available for free today, either
    > by means of Open Motif or Lesstif, there are few end-user applications
    > available. Some years ago I used to have several Motif applications
    > running on my workstation. RealPlayer, Netscape Navigator, Acrobat
    > Reader and Xmgr (nee Grace) were my preferred ones. I don't use
    > grace anymore because it is not necessary for my current job. All the
    > other ones now use Gtk (with Navigator replaced by Mozilla Firefox).
    >
    > It's sad, but it's true.
    >
    > --- Casantos
    >


    Indeed. And Athena and Motif were probably the only two
    widget systems that paid attention to the Quark/XrmResource
    system within X -- except for the basics dictated by ICCCM
    for window/session managers and such, perhaps. As near as
    I can tell Gnome is reimplementing it (and Gnome's implementation
    will probably be more portable, since XrmResource requires X).

    I don't know what Qt/KDE has in that area but it probably has
    similar functionality as well.

    I'll admit to wondering what will be in X11R7... :-)

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    It's still legal to go .sigless.

  6. Re: Athena widgets


    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    > I'll admit to wondering what will be in X11R7... :-)


    http://ftp.x.org/pub/X11R7.0/doc/html/RELNOTES.html

    It was released last December, 11 years and 7 months after R6.0.
    (Hey, that's almost 11.7!)

    There are some polishments on the font rendering and on hardware
    drivers, but most of the changes are in the buildig system (they now
    use GNU autoconf instead of imake).

    --- Casantos


  7. Re: Athena widgets

    I'm reminded of the Mark Twain's famous quote "The reports of my death
    have been greatly exaggerated. "

    OpenMotif 2.3 just hit the streets (www.openmotif.org)

    And in turn of usage, Motif claims thousands of mission critical
    enterprise class applications that run on Linux from the the subways of
    Boston to NASA mission control to FBI homeland defense to mission
    planning systems for the Swiss air force. etc.

    Mark


  8. Re: Athena widgets

    Mark Hatch wrote:

    > I'm reminded of the Mark Twain's famous quote "The reports of
    > my death have been greatly exaggerated. "
    >
    > OpenMotif 2.3 just hit the streets (www.openmotif.org)


    Mark,

    I didn't say "dead", I said "being phased-out". For sure Motif is still
    in
    use in important applications, and I fimly believe that it has many
    techical merits that deserve respect. I even attempted to contribute
    to the project some time ago, as you know, but both my former and
    my current jobs allways kept me too busy, so I had to give up. :-(

    All in all, I believe that the replacement of Motif by Gtk and Qt in
    mainstream applications is an unfortunate phenomenon, but very
    hard to revert. And for custom-developed applications, Java seems
    to be the current trend. Considering that even long-time ISVs like
    ICS and IST are now working on tools for Qt and Java, I guess my
    feelings are right.

    The main problem for Motif is the demise of Unix as a desktop OS.
    Motif became the default GUI toolkit on commercial Unix systems
    but most end-user applications are now being developed for "linux"
    (whatever that word may mean, given the multitude of linux-based
    distros). Motif is not popular among the linux community. One could
    argue commercial packages were expensive in the past or that the
    Open Motif license imposes a political barrier to its adoption not. I
    don't think so. Even Lesstif, a FSF-owned project released under the
    sacred GPL is mostly ignored by FSF itself, that recommends the use
    of Gtk. Other open-source operating systems, like the BSD derived
    ones share the same situation.

    The problem, in fact, is that companies behind the main Linux-based
    systems (Novell, Red Hat, Mandriva) spent a lot of money on GNOME
    and/or KDE. Gtk and Qt are available on those platform by default,
    while Motif is an optional add-on. Developers of mission-critical
    applications don't care about that, so they convince their clients to
    choose Motif as the GUI toolkit for their application. But if I want a
    web browser for my FreeBSD workstation I must choose between a
    Gtk-based one (Mozilla/Firefox) or a Qt-based one (Opera).

    If a Motif-based desktop environment was available, perhaps it
    would be possible catch more attention, but there is no serious
    contendant on the ring. On the open source camp, eXode was left
    orphaned before reaching verion 1.0 and AntiRight is a one-man
    project with a goal and no witten specification.

    Meanwhile, CDE starves for lack of maintennance (wake up, Open
    Group!) and Ingo Magic may have a future or not, since SGI seems
    to be in trouble. It would be nice if CDE or IM was released as open
    source, so they could have a chance to survive. Considering the
    legal yadayada that may be needed release the code, however, I'm
    afraid it will never happen at all.

    So I'm stuck to the custom fvwm-based environment I have beeen
    using for more than 10 years. Perhaps I sitch to KDE, GNOME or
    Xfce someday. Or perhaps I just follow Jamie Zawinski's example:
    buy a Mac and leave X behind, finally. No flames, please. :-)))))


    --- Casantos


  9. Re: Athena widgets

    On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:00:36 +0000, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:


    > Indeed. And Athena and Motif were probably the only two
    > widget systems that paid attention to the Quark/XrmResource
    > system within X -- except for the basics dictated by ICCCM
    > for window/session managers and such, perhaps. As near as
    > I can tell Gnome is reimplementing it (and Gnome's implementation
    > will probably be more portable, since XrmResource requires X).


    Which is a shame, since Xrm works rather well. Having the settings tied to
    the display, not the local filesystem of the running program is useful,
    since you can load settings optimized for the display.

    The trouble is that the X based systems are designed with remote usage in
    mind, and other systems which just happen to run on X aren't.

    -Ed


    --
    (You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (er258)(@)(eng.cam)(.ac.uk)

    /d{def}def/f{/Times findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5/m
    {moveto}d -1 r 230 350 m 0 1 179{1 index show 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}
    for /s 15 d f pop 240 420 m 0 1 3 { 4 2 1 r sub -1 r show } for showpage


  10. Re: Athena widgets

    In comp.windows.x, E. Rosten

    wrote
    on Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:19:39 +0000
    :
    > On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:00:36 +0000, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Indeed. And Athena and Motif were probably the only two
    >> widget systems that paid attention to the Quark/XrmResource
    >> system within X -- except for the basics dictated by ICCCM
    >> for window/session managers and such, perhaps. As near as
    >> I can tell Gnome is reimplementing it (and Gnome's implementation
    >> will probably be more portable, since XrmResource requires X).

    >
    > Which is a shame, since Xrm works rather well. Having the settings tied to
    > the display, not the local filesystem of the running program is useful,
    > since you can load settings optimized for the display.
    >
    > The trouble is that the X based systems are designed with remote usage in
    > mind, and other systems which just happen to run on X aren't.
    >
    > -Ed
    >


    Oh yes. I had a widget set based on it written at one point. It wasn't
    based on Intrinsics but it did respond almost immediately to a property
    change.

    Admittedly, Gnome/Gtk has a similar capability so I'm not sure I really
    want to pursue this further. I would hope someone integrates the two
    at some point, if that's at all possible.

    --
    #191, ewill3@earthlink.net
    It's still legal to go .sigless.

  11. Re: Athena widgets


    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.windows.x, E. Rosten
    > > On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:00:36 +0000, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

    [...]
    > >> Indeed. And Athena and Motif were probably the only two
    > >> widget systems that paid attention to the Quark/XrmResource

    [...]
    > > Which is a shame, since Xrm works rather well. Having the settings tied
    > > to the display, not the local filesystem of the running program is useful,
    > > since you can load settings optimized for the display.

    [...]
    > Admittedly, Gnome/Gtk has a similar capability so I'm not sure I really
    > want to pursue this further. I would hope someone integrates the two
    > at some point, if that's at all possible.


    Jamie Zawinski tried to integrate Xrm and Gtk for long time ago,
    according
    to my recollections. I remember of reading a post from him about but
    don't
    remember in which newsgroup. I guess he was not successful.

    --- Casantos


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