Re : Amiga AGA chipset support for later version of X server broken in Debian Woody - X

This is a discussion on Re : Amiga AGA chipset support for later version of X server broken in Debian Woody - X ; Hello, J.O. Aho (user@example.net) spoke thus: >mattabat wrote: > >> It may have escaped a lot of peoples attention, but the Amiga AGA >> chipset support for X servers seemed to go out the window with Debian >> Woody, i.e. ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 2 of 2

Thread: Re : Amiga AGA chipset support for later version of X server broken in Debian Woody

  1. Re : Amiga AGA chipset support for later version of X server broken in Debian Woody

    Hello,

    J.O. Aho (user@example.net) spoke thus:
    >mattabat wrote:
    >
    >> It may have escaped a lot of peoples attention, but the Amiga AGA
    >> chipset support for X servers seemed to go out the window with

    Debian
    >> Woody, i.e. seems to be completely broken.
    >> Yet no-one seems to be interested in repairing it..

    >
    > Could it be that there aren't so many users who still has only AGA on their
    > machines. Many have changed to other platforms/amiga clones or have PCI (and
    > soon AGP) support, so they can use better graphics cards.


    Respectfully, those who find they cannot use an X server on a Amiga
    after downloading it would see things differently. They don't care how
    many users, just that something that worked before now doesn't. It
    also takes the "upgrade or perish" maxim a little too far!
    There are enough classic Amiga users still using their machines to
    justify a simple bugfix!

    >> Is anyone up to the challenge? My programming skills aren't up to

    it,
    >> but I really want to see a modern X server again on my Amiga
    >> (hopefully in Sarge..), not that old equipment seems to be of high
    >> priority anymore

    >
    > That seems to be true for all distros, tech from the 80's aren't supported.


    The AGA chipset made it into the 90's (shock horror). And Debian isn't
    any distro, supposedly the idea of compiling for so many architectures
    is so people with older/different equipment can use the bells and
    whistles that have been compiled for it..

    >> I know the AGA chipset is old hat, but it seems silly to leave it
    >> broken. Does it highlight a lack of backwards compatibility in the
    >> direction that the X server development has taken?

    >
    > I think you gain more of still using older version of XFree86 than move over
    > to a new version or Xorg, as the new features won't be possible to do in AGA,
    > except xrandr, but that one ain't that much used yet, maybe in a couple of
    > years
    > you will see KDE or Gnome3 (lets hope it will be more userfriendly than
    > Gnome2) to use it.


    Thanks for all the helpful advice, any ideas on how to install an old
    version of XFree86 with Woody in such a way so that the installation
    system isn't totally flummoxxed?
    Why wouldn't it be easier to just fix it? Perhaps then AGA chipset
    users wouldn't feel a need to complain!
    Maybe it *won't* be able to use all the bells and whistles, but it
    would be appreciated if it worked, at all.

    >> Why compile for m68k in the first place if it isn't worth testing?

    >
    > m68k ain't the fastest CPU, so why run heavy stuff on it, use the console > instead.


    Perhaps I mispoke - many classic Amiga users use PPC as well, it's
    broken for them as well. m68k and PPC Amigas *do* have the processing
    power for a modern X server, why put up without one because they lack
    a graphics card?
    And since when is a GUI "heavy stuff"??
    You use the console for everything. See how annoyed you get. Why
    should AGA Amiga users have to do the same, when not necessary?

    > //Aho


    Forgive me if I sound annoyed, but it's been far too long since I used
    a X server on my Amiga and the strain is showing

    --
    mattabat

  2. Re: Re : Amiga AGA chipset support for later version of X serverbroken in Debian Woody

    mattabat wrote:

    >>I think you gain more of still using older version of XFree86 than move over
    >>to a new version or Xorg, as the new features won't be possible to do in AGA,
    >>except xrandr, but that one ain't that much used yet, maybe in a couple of
    >>years
    >>you will see KDE or Gnome3 (lets hope it will be more userfriendly than
    >>Gnome2) to use it.

    >
    > Thanks for all the helpful advice, any ideas on how to install an old
    > version of XFree86 with Woody in such a way so that the installation
    > system isn't totally flummoxxed?


    The best way would be to recompile the XFree86 package, this way you will have
    less dependency problems. This will take some time with a m68k, regadles of if
    you have a 060/75Mhz or not.


    > Why wouldn't it be easier to just fix it? Perhaps then AGA chipset
    > users wouldn't feel a need to complain!
    > Maybe it *won't* be able to use all the bells and whistles, but it
    > would be appreciated if it worked, at all.


    The main problem may be that no developer has an Amiga (or don't use the AGA),
    so as long as they don't have it, they won't be able to fix it. Don't forget
    that this is an open source world, so you could fix it yourself (know you
    aren't experienced enough at the moment, but this could be a good reason for
    you to look into C/C++).



    > Perhaps I mispoke - many classic Amiga users use PPC as well, it's
    > broken for them as well. m68k and PPC Amigas *do* have the processing
    > power for a modern X server, why put up without one because they lack
    > a graphics card?


    Yes, PPC users may hava AGA too, but those who has PPC has the possibility to
    use graphicscards hooked to the mini-pci port on them, there was one for the
    CSPPC and one for the BPPC.
    Regadles of CPU, there are possibility to get one of the many PCI expantions
    cards (specially for the A1200 there are plenty of them) and use a lot more
    powerfull graphics card, the Voodoo cards seems still be quite populare
    withint the Amiga community (whats left of it after all the troll wars).

    My experience of Amiga with *nix ain't the best, small resolutions, few
    bitpalnes and relative slow too, I don't think a x86 PI/133 is a good machine
    to ruin X on, 64MB ram (as I remeber most Amiga CPU cards don't allow more
    than that), ain't much specially if you use a graphical interface.


    > And since when is a GUI "heavy stuff"??
    > You use the console for everything. See how annoyed you get. Why
    > should AGA Amiga users have to do the same, when not necessary?


    GUI is heavy stuff, demands quite a lot of CPU and MEM usage, specially if you
    want to have something else than ctwm or twm as your window manager/desktop.

    I do use console only on one of my machines, of course I don't always use that
    one for daily usage, but it happens when I'm not at home and have to use a
    MS-windows box, then I log into my machine over ssh and do the stuff I usually
    do at home, but over simple terminal instead of X. It's a bit annoying to
    watch movies on console/terminal, but you can do that, if you accept ASCII
    graphics.


    > Forgive me if I sound annoyed, but it's been far too long since I used
    > a X server on my Amiga and the strain is showing


    I see only five options that you can do

    1 - Use an older version of the linux distro that has an old XFree86
    2 - Use a new distro to which you recompile an older XFree86 for
    3 - Get an PCI expantion card and a grphics card
    4 - Start fixing the problem yourself
    5 - Pay someone to fix the problem for you

    Untill you have a working X again, take a look at the twin project:
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/twin/

    And here is a screenshot too:
    http://freshmeat.net/screenshots/10830/


    //Aho

+ Reply to Thread