F. Heitkamp wrote:
> I am getting confused about the X Window System and Linux. I currently use
> Xfree86 4.4.x. I understand there is some licensing issues with it. I have
> also been looking at Freedesktop.org X and Xprint etc. I've notice that some
> of the libraries that come with Freedesktop X have been diverging from the
> Xfree86, specifically related to freetype/xft. What is the preferred X Window
> system distribution? What is all the controversy about? Thanks.

Xorg-X11 is the preferred one, it's just a fork of XFree86 v4.3.x before the
license changed, I guess you have to read the licens to see what everything is
about.


//Aho

Oops! "J.O. Aho" was seen spray-painting on a wall:
> F. Heitkamp wrote:
>> I am getting confused about the X Window System and Linux. I
>> currently use Xfree86 4.4.x. I understand there is some licensing
>> issues with it. I have also been looking at Freedesktop.org X and
>> Xprint etc. I've notice that some of the libraries that come with
>> Freedesktop X have been diverging from the Xfree86, specifically
>> related to freetype/xft. What is the preferred X Window system
>> distribution? What is all the controversy about? Thanks.
>
> Xorg-X11 is the preferred one, it's just a fork of XFree86 v4.3.x
> before the license changed, I guess you have to read the licens to see
> what everything is about.

It's also somewhat about governance.

The XFree86 Project Inc is the organization behind (surprise!)
XFree86, and there has been considerable controversy surrounding its
governance.

Things are less clear than they used to be, because the corporation
reincorporated in a new jurisdiction a year or two ago, and the
principals have been way less open as to further details.

But in effect, the organization (and hence the software released by
it) is the "personal playground" of David Dawes,
.

Dawes' company, X-Oz, decided to come up with Yet Another New License:
. And he's been going through
applying his revised license to everything checked into XFree86 CVS.
As president of the project, that's evidently considered "fair game."

The revised license _might_ still be a "free" one, but there have been
some clauses causing concern. And whenever anyone asks for X-Oz to
elaborate on their intent, they get evasive, which causes everyone
quite some concern.

In the same time period, XFree86 Inc booted out one of the major
innovators, Keith Packard, who has been working on X since before
Linux existed. Dawes and Packard didn't see eye to eye on some
proposed changes, and since control of the corporation is very closely
held, Packard's "eviction" was easy enough to do, but only occurred as
a result of the opinions of the tiny group of XFree86 "members."
There is no provision for representation of other interested parties
such as Linux system vendors, desktop projects (like GNOME/KDE), or
such.

There used to be considerable documentation of XFree86 Project
policies including copies of the official documents surrounding
mission statements, bylaws, and such; that information has been
disappearing, as it would evidently be harmful to the organization for
that information to be known publicly...

At any rate, virtually all of the Linux distributions are migrating to
the "code fork" being managed by X.org, which is a revitalization of
what used to be the X Consortium, and which has a rather more open
system of governance, as well as the software license that everyone
was always comfortable with.
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="acm.org" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];;
http://linuxfinances.info/info/x.html
"Let's start preparing for the future. Now's a good time, since it's
already here." -- David L. Andre

In message <325nqqF3h72r9U1@individual.net> - Christopher Browne
13 Dec 2004 14:38:19 GMT writes:
>
>Oops! "J.O. Aho" was seen spray-painting on a wall:
>> F. Heitkamp wrote:
>>> I am getting confused about the X Window System and Linux. I
>>
>> Xorg-X11 is the preferred one, it's just a fork of XFree86 v4.3.x
>> before the license changed, I guess you have to read the licens to see
>> what everything is about.
>
>It's also somewhat about governance.
>
>
>But in effect, the organization (and hence the software released by
>it) is the "personal playground" of David Dawes,
>.
>
>Dawes' company, X-Oz, decided to come up with Yet Another New License:
>. And he's been going through

Thank you very much for your explanation. Sounds like I should move to the
X.org distribution. Other than the license, does anyone have a clear handle
on what is different between the Xfree86 4.4.x and X.org 4.3.x?

One thing that obviously concerns me is what distribution Nvida and ATI will
submit patches too.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:21:07 GMT,
F. Heitkamp , in
wrote:

>+ One thing that obviously concerns me is what distribution Nvida and ATI will
>+ submit patches too.

My understanding is that ATI contributed to XFree86 and their mods sat
for months without moving forward. I'll let you guess who they'll be
more likely to work with.

Of course, most of the distributions are moving x.org, and so the
vendors will follow.

James
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:21:07 GMT,

> My understanding is that ATI contributed to XFree86 and their mods sat
> for months without moving forward. I'll let you guess who they'll be
> more likely to work with.
>
> Of course, most of the distributions are moving x.org, and so the
> vendors will follow.

At thgis stage the vendors don't have to choose which one to support, when
they can just make one driver which works in both.


//Aho

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:51:07 +0100,
J.O. Aho , in
<328quvF3j873hU1@individual.net> wrote:
>+ I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
>+ > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:21:07 GMT,
>+
>+ > My understanding is that ATI contributed to XFree86 and their mods sat
>+ > for months without moving forward. I'll let you guess who they'll be
>+ > more likely to work with.
>+ >
>+ > Of course, most of the distributions are moving x.org, and so the
>+ > vendors will follow.
>+
>+ At thgis stage the vendors don't have to choose which one to support, when
>+ they can just make one driver which works in both.

Agreed. Currently, that's just a fortunate circumstance for XFree86.

I suspect that will change, and sooner rather than later.

James
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
> J.O. Aho wrote:
>>+ At this stage the vendors don't have to choose which one to support, when
>>+ they can just make one driver which works in both.
>
> Agreed. Currently, that's just a fortunate circumstance for XFree86.
> I suspect that will change, and sooner rather than later.

Could be that XFree86 will change back to it's earlier licens and tell about
the future and it could be that Xorg and XFree86 merges and we once more just
have one.


//Aho

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 21:26:15 +0100,
J.O. Aho , in
<32gtklF3iq6pdU1@individual.net> wrote:
>+ I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
>+ > J.O. Aho wrote:
>+ >>+ At this stage the vendors don't have to choose which one to support, when
>+ >>+ they can just make one driver which works in both.
>+ >
>+ > Agreed. Currently, that's just a fortunate circumstance for XFree86.
>+ > I suspect that will change, and sooner rather than later.
>+
>+ Could be that XFree86 will change back to it's earlier licens and tell about
>+ the future and it could be that Xorg and XFree86 merges and we once more just
>+ have one.

Maybe. I won't hold out much hope for that, tho. Ego's are involved,
and it takes a very big person to say "I was wrong. I made a
mistake. I will now fix my mistake." and let their ego take a beating.

IMHO, of course.

James
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
> J.O. Aho wrote:

>>+ > Agreed. Currently, that's just a fortunate circumstance for XFree86.
>>+ > I suspect that will change, and sooner rather than later.
>>+
>>+ Could be that XFree86 will change back to it's earlier licens and tell about
>>+ the future and it could be that Xorg and XFree86 merges and we once more just
>>+ have one.
>
> Maybe. I won't hold out much hope for that, tho. Ego's are involved,
> and it takes a very big person to say "I was wrong. I made a
> mistake. I will now fix my mistake." and let their ego take a beating.

Yeah, I agree, seen this kind of stuff over and over again in the Amiga
community, at least this hasn't sinken as low as it usually is in the Amiga
community where everyone blames eachother with quite bad "language" too.


//Aho