US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS - X

This is a discussion on US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS - X ; I'm tearing my hair (what's left of it) out trying to achieve the subject configuration. I get the U.S. international layout with: setxkbmap -rules xorg -model pc101 -layout us -variant intl This allows me to do my Spanish homework with ...

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Thread: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

  1. US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    I'm tearing my hair (what's left of it) out trying to achieve the
    subject configuration. I get the U.S. international layout with:

    setxkbmap -rules xorg -model pc101 -layout us -variant intl

    This allows me to do my Spanish homework with the straightforward right-
    Alt + letter combinations to produce accented characters. It also has
    the *VERY* undesirable side-effect of turning the apostrophe/quotation
    key into a dead key; this makes working in a shell or typing code next
    to impossible.

    How the blankety-blank can I do this?

    Thanks!

    --
    ================================================== ======================
    Ian Pilcher i.pilcher@comcast.net
    ================================================== ======================

  2. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:58:29 GMT, Ian Pilcher staggered into the Black
    Sun and said:
    > I'm tearing my hair (what's left of it) out trying to achieve the
    > subject configuration. I get the U.S. international layout with:
    > setxkbmap -rules xorg -model pc101 -layout us -variant intl
    >
    > This allows me to do my Spanish homework with the straightforward
    > right- Alt + letter combinations to produce accented characters. It
    > also has the *VERY* undesirable side-effect of turning the
    > apostrophe/quotation key into a dead key


    Dead keys suck. If you have a US keyboard, why not just use the normal
    US keyboard layout and turn one of your keys (right Alt, right Ctrl,
    something...) into a Multi_key with xmodmap? I usually do "xmodmap -e
    'keycode 109=Multi_key' " to turn my right Ctrl key into a Multi_key .

    Then you can get accented characters with Multi_key , ' , a = ,
    Multi_key , " , a = , Multi_key , ? , ? = (upside-down question mark),
    etcetera. I've written about this topic in the past; groups.google this
    newsgroup with keyword Multi_key for more advice. HTH,

    --
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
    Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
    http://www.brainbench.com / Hire me!
    -----------------------------/ http://crow202.dyndns.org/~mhgraham/resume

  3. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    Dances With Crows wrote:
    >
    > Dead keys suck. If you have a US keyboard, why not just use the normal
    > US keyboard layout and turn one of your keys (right Alt, right Ctrl,
    > something...) into a Multi_key with xmodmap? I usually do "xmodmap -e
    > 'keycode 109=Multi_key' " to turn my right Ctrl key into a Multi_key .
    >
    > Then you can get accented characters with Multi_key , ' , a = ,
    > Multi_key , " , a = , Multi_key , ? , ? = (upside-down question mark),
    > etcetera. I've written about this topic in the past; groups.google this
    > newsgroup with keyword Multi_key for more advice. HTH,
    >


    Multi_key looks like a good solution for someone who needs a lot of
    flexibility in combining characters and accents. I don't need that
    level flexibility, however, and the Multi_key + ', letter combination is
    almost as bad as a dead key combination.

    All I want to do is the following:

    rt-alt + a:
    rt-alt + e:
    rt-alt + i:
    rt-alt + o:
    rt-alt + u:
    rt-alt + n:
    rt-alt + 1:
    rt-alt + /:

    I.e., I want the right Alt key to act as a sort of "shift". This is
    what the xkb U.S. international layout does -- except, of course, for
    the damn dead keys.

    Assuming that I have to use xkb, does anyone know where I can find the
    information that will enable me to get rid of the dead keys in the
    "intl" variant of the "us" layout?

    Thanks!

    --
    ================================================== ======================
    Ian Pilcher i.pilcher@comcast.net
    ================================================== ======================

  4. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:58:29 +0000, Ian Pilcher wrote:

    > I'm tearing my hair (what's left of it) out trying to achieve the
    > subject configuration. I get the U.S. international layout with:
    >
    > setxkbmap -rules xorg -model pc101 -layout us -variant intl
    >
    > This allows me to do my Spanish homework with the straightforward right-
    > Alt + letter combinations to produce accented characters. It also has
    > the *VERY* undesirable side-effect of turning the apostrophe/quotation
    > key into a dead key; this makes working in a shell or typing code next
    > to impossible.


    It is not that bad is it? You just have to remember to press space after
    the (double) quote dead-key. That results in just the quote (or double
    quote). I found that wasn't so hard to get used to.

    --
    Juhan Leemet
    Logicognosis, Inc.



  5. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    Juhan Leemet wrote:
    >
    > It is not that bad is it? You just have to remember to press space after
    > the (double) quote dead-key. That results in just the quote (or double
    > quote). I found that wasn't so hard to get used to.
    >


    For me, it is that bad. Not to mention the fact that it's my bloddy
    keyboard.

    --
    ================================================== ======================
    Ian Pilcher i.pilcher@comcast.net
    ================================================== ======================

  6. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    In article , Ian Pilcher wrote:
    > Multi_key looks like a good solution for someone who needs a lot of
    > flexibility in combining characters and accents. I don't need that
    > level flexibility, however, and the Multi_key + ', letter combination is
    > almost as bad as a dead key combination.
    >
    > All I want to do is the following:
    >
    > rt-alt + a:
    > rt-alt + e:
    > rt-alt + i:
    > rt-alt + o:
    > rt-alt + u:
    > rt-alt + n:
    > rt-alt + 1:
    > rt-alt + /:



    How about using normal US keyboard layout and then modify the keymap using
    xmodmap with the following:

    keysym 1 = 1 exclam exclamdown
    keysym slash = slash question questiondown
    keysym a = a A aacute Aacute
    keysym c = c C ccedilla
    keysym e = e E eacute Eacute
    keysym i = i I iacute Iacute
    keysym n = n N ntilde Ntilde
    keysym o = o O oslash Ooblique
    keysym u = u U udiaeresis Udiaeresis

    (change according to your preferences for, for instance, o and u)

    HTH.
    --
    Eric S Fraga, Chemical Engineering@UCL www.ucl.ac.uk/chemeng/staff/fraga.html
    .........@@@@@@.@@@.@.@@.@.@...@..@@@.@@@.@@.@.... .@.@..@@@.@@@.@.............

  7. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    On 5 Oct 2004 07:34:59 GMT, Eric S Fraga staggered into the Black Sun
    and said:
    > In article , Ian Pilcher wrote:
    >> Multi_key looks like a good solution for someone who needs a lot of
    >> flexibility in combining characters and accents. I don't need that
    >> level flexibility, however, and the Multi_key + ', letter combination
    >> is almost as bad as a dead key combination.


    IMO, right-Ctrl is easier to reach than right-Alt. YMMV obviously. I
    don't suppose you've considered using xbindkeys along with xmacroplay to
    bind (right-Alt + key) to an xmacroplay command that sends the
    "Multi_key + char + char" sequence to the X server? That's a roundabout
    way of doing things, but it's a hell of a lot easier to understand than
    XKB.

    >> All I want to do is the following:
    >> rt-alt + a: rt-alt + e:
    >> rt-alt + i: rt-alt + o:

    [snip]
    > How about using normal US keyboard layout and then modify the keymap
    > using xmodmap with the following:
    > keysym 1 = 1 exclam exclamdown


    That doesn't work properly. The Alt key is used by a lot of window
    managers and so forth. I did "xmodmap -e 'keysym 1 = 1 exclam
    exclamdown' " and tried to get an upside-down exclamation point with
    Alt+1 in a konsole window. Didn't work; bash replaced the prompt with
    (args . Multi_key always works. HTH,

    --
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
    Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
    http://www.brainbench.com / Hire me!
    -----------------------------/ http://crow202.dyndns.org/~mhgraham/resume

  8. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    Dances With Crows wrote:
    >
    > IMO, right-Ctrl is easier to reach than right-Alt. YMMV obviously. I
    > don't suppose you've considered using xbindkeys along with xmacroplay to
    > bind (right-Alt + key) to an xmacroplay command that sends the
    > "Multi_key + char + char" sequence to the X server? That's a roundabout
    > way of doing things, but it's a hell of a lot easier to understand than
    > XKB.
    >


    Given that XKB seems to almost completely undocumented (from the point
    of view of a user who simply wants to control the behavior of his key-
    board), I'd say that just about anything is easier to use.

    Unfortunately, neither xbindkeys or xmacroplay is installed on my Fedora
    Core 2 system. (And no, I hadn't considered using them, for the reason
    that I've never heard of either command before.)

    --
    ================================================== ======================
    Ian Pilcher i.pilcher@comcast.net
    ================================================== ======================

  9. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    In article ,
    Dances With Crows wrote:
    > On 5 Oct 2004 07:34:59 GMT, Eric S Fraga staggered into the Black Sun
    > and said:
    >> In article , Ian Pilcher wrote:
    >>> Multi_key looks like a good solution for someone who needs a lot of
    >>> flexibility in combining characters and accents. I don't need that
    >>> level flexibility, however, and the Multi_key + ', letter combination
    >>> is almost as bad as a dead key combination.

    >
    > IMO, right-Ctrl is easier to reach than right-Alt. YMMV obviously. I
    > don't suppose you've considered using xbindkeys along with xmacroplay to
    > bind (right-Alt + key) to an xmacroplay command that sends the
    > "Multi_key + char + char" sequence to the X server? That's a roundabout
    > way of doing things, but it's a hell of a lot easier to understand than
    > XKB.
    >
    >>> All I want to do is the following:
    >>> rt-alt + a: rt-alt + e:
    >>> rt-alt + i: rt-alt + o:

    > [snip]
    >> How about using normal US keyboard layout and then modify the keymap
    >> using xmodmap with the following:
    >> keysym 1 = 1 exclam exclamdown

    >
    > That doesn't work properly. The Alt key is used by a lot of window
    > managers and so forth. I did "xmodmap -e 'keysym 1 = 1 exclam
    > exclamdown' " and tried to get an upside-down exclamation point with
    > Alt+1 in a konsole window. Didn't work; bash replaced the prompt with
    > (args . Multi_key always works. HTH,
    >


    The assumption here was that the mode1 key would be AltGr (which appears to
    be the default behaviour on my system in any case), not the Alt key (which I
    agree is used for many other purposes). Try AltGr+1 to see if you get

    cheers,
    eric

    --
    Eric S Fraga, Chemical Engineering@UCL www.ucl.ac.uk/chemeng/staff/fraga.html
    .........@@@@@@.@@@.@.@@.@.@...@..@@@.@@@.@@.@.... .@.@..@@@.@@@.@.............

  10. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:32:37 GMT, Ian Pilcher staggered into the Black
    Sun and said:
    > Dances With Crows wrote:
    >> don't suppose you've considered using xbindkeys along with xmacroplay
    >> to bind (right-Alt + key) to an xmacroplay command that sends the
    >> "Multi_key + char + char" sequence to the X server? That's a
    >> roundabout way of doing things, but it's a hell of a lot easier to
    >> understand than XKB.

    > Given that XKB seems to almost completely undocumented (from the point
    > of view of a user who simply wants to control the behavior of his key-
    > board), I'd say that just about anything is easier to use.


    Yes. The HOWTO on the X website is about as clear as mud and was
    written by someone who didn't know English very well.

    > Unfortunately, neither xbindkeys or xmacroplay is installed on my
    > Fedora Core 2 system. (And no, I hadn't considered using them, for
    > the reason that I've never heard of either command before.)


    http://hocwp.free.fr/xbindkeys/xbindkeys.html
    http://xmacro.sourceforge.net/

    xbindkeys has a GTK+ frontend, gtk-xbindkeys, as well. xbindkeys is
    really useful if you have a mouse with lots of buttons or a keyboard
    with lots of extra "multimedia" keys. Both programs are pretty small
    and relatively easy to compile as long as you have the X development
    package installed.

    --
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
    Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
    http://www.brainbench.com / Hire me!
    -----------------------------/ http://crow202.dyndns.org/~mhgraham/resume

  11. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    On 6 Oct 2004 19:05:47 GMT, Eric S Fraga staggered into the Black Sun
    and said:
    > In article
    > ,
    > Dances With Crows wrote:
    >> On 5 Oct 2004 07:34:59 GMT, Eric S Fraga staggered into the Black Sun
    >> and said:
    >>> How about using normal US keyboard layout and then modify the keymap
    >>> using xmodmap with the following:
    >>> keysym 1 = 1 exclam exclamdown

    >> That doesn't work properly. The Alt key is used by a lot of window
    >> managers and so forth. I did "xmodmap -e 'keysym 1 = 1 exclam
    >> exclamdown' " and tried to get an upside-down exclamation point with
    >> Alt+1 in a konsole window. Didn't work; bash replaced the prompt
    >> with (args . Multi_key always works. HTH,

    > The assumption here was that the mode1 key would be AltGr


    US keyboards don't *have* AltGr, and the OP is using a US keyboard. I
    suppose you could modify the right-Alt or right-Windows or Menu keys to
    send that keysym though. Using Multi_key requires one xmodmap command,
    mapping something to AltGr and then mapping other combinations to the
    symbol you want requires multiple xmodmap commands. Simplicity is a
    virtue, eh?

    > not the Alt key (which I agree is used for many other purposes). Try
    > AltGr+1 to see if you get


    I can't do that right now as I'm at work, none of the Linux machines
    here at work are running X, and my laptop's sick. Maybe when I get
    home....

    --
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
    Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
    http://www.brainbench.com / Hire me!
    -----------------------------/ http://crow202.dyndns.org/~mhgraham/resume

  12. Re: US int'l layout WITHOUT DEAD KEYS

    In article ,
    Dances With Crows wrote:
    > On 6 Oct 2004 19:05:47 GMT, Eric S Fraga staggered into the Black Sun
    > and said:
    >> The assumption here was that the mode1 key would be AltGr

    >
    > US keyboards don't *have* AltGr, and the OP is using a US keyboard. I


    *Ah* Sorry, haven't used a US keyboard in a while now...

    > suppose you could modify the right-Alt or right-Windows or Menu keys to
    > send that keysym though. Using Multi_key requires one xmodmap command,
    > mapping something to AltGr and then mapping other combinations to the
    > symbol you want requires multiple xmodmap commands. Simplicity is a
    > virtue, eh?


    I agree. Actually, I simply use Emacs accent mode which emulates dead key
    behaviour but I do like the multi_key approach.

    cheers,
    eric

    --
    Eric S Fraga, Chemical Engineering@UCL www.ucl.ac.uk/chemeng/staff/fraga.html
    .........@@@@@@.@@@.@.@@.@.@...@..@@@.@@@.@@.@.... .@.@..@@@.@@@.@.............

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