Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card - X

This is a discussion on Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card - X ; Hello At the time I used XFree 3.x, by tuning the XF86Config file I could put my S3 Trio video card to a vert refresh between 75Hz and 80Hz (in 1024x768/16bpp mode). Since I've been using XFree 4.x, I could ...

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Thread: Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card

  1. Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card

    Hello

    At the time I used XFree 3.x, by tuning the XF86Config file I could put
    my S3 Trio video card to a vert refresh between 75Hz and 80Hz (in
    1024x768/16bpp mode).

    Since I've been using XFree 4.x, I could not find a way to specify dot
    sync informations (The ModeLine... parameters in old XF86Config files).
    XFree86 v4.x is fine. Everything gets configured automatically for my
    1024x768/16bpp.
    BUT it is using 60Hz vert frequency only, no way to select something else.

    -> Any hint to reach a vert refresh >= 75Hz with Xfree v4 ?

    * Additional infos

    -> I had this vert refresh problem with many different versions of
    XFree86 v4.

    -> I'm using Fedora Core 2/S3Trio with 2MB/Iiyama 410/PentiumII-233.
    When using XFree 3, I could reach 90Hz of vert refresh in 1024x768. So I
    know this video card along with the monitor I'm using support such high
    frequencies.

    -> Also I could see (on 3 different XFree86 v4 versions) that xvidtune
    crashes whenever I try to change a parameter. I also know it has nothing
    to do with some distro-specific elements since I had this problem even
    with Linux From Scratch.

    Thanks in advance for answering

    Gros Loup from Grenoble, France

  2. Re: Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card

    On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:16:48 +0200, Gros Loup staggered into the Black
    Sun and said:
    > At the time I used XFree 3.x, by tuning the XF86Config file I could
    > put my S3 Trio video card to a vert refresh between 75Hz and 80Hz (in
    > 1024x768/16bpp mode).
    >
    > Since I've been using XFree 4.x, I could not find a way to specify dot
    > sync informations (The ModeLine... parameters in old XF86Config files).
    > XFree86 v4.x is fine. Everything gets configured automatically for my
    > 1024x768/16bpp.
    > BUT it is using 60Hz vert frequency only, no way to select something else.


    Are you sure you're using the proper X server? You probably want
    "s3virge". If you're using VESA instead, you will be stuck at 60 Hz
    vsync.

    If you're using a non-VESA X server, you can still specify modes and
    modelines in XF86Config. The syntax has changed a little from 3.3.6
    though. Here's how to do it:

    # in /etc/X11/XF86Config
    Section "Monitor"
    Identifier "Monitor0" # don't change this
    HorizSync 20-150 # adjust for your monitor
    VertRefresh 10-400 # adjust for your monitor
    # This is an example modeline; don't use it as it may not work
    Modeline "640x480" 27.96 640 656 720 864 480 480 485 501
    # add more modelines; you can use the X modeline generator at
    # http://koala.ilog.fr/cgi-bin/nph-colas-modelines
    EndSection

    > -> Also I could see (on 3 different XFree86 v4 versions) that xvidtune
    > crashes whenever I try to change a parameter.


    Make sure you're not using the VESA X server. xvidtune won't work on
    it. HTH anyway, bonne chance!

    --
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
    Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
    http://www.brainbench.com / Hire me!
    -----------------------------/ http://crow202.dyndns.org/~mhgraham/resume

  3. Re: Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card

    Dances With Crows wrote:
    > On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:16:48 +0200, Gros Loup staggered into the Black
    > Sun and said:
    >
    >>At the time I used XFree 3.x, by tuning the XF86Config file I could
    >>put my S3 Trio video card to a vert refresh between 75Hz and 80Hz (in
    >>1024x768/16bpp mode).
    >>
    >>Since I've been using XFree 4.x, I could not find a way to specify dot
    >>sync informations (The ModeLine... parameters in old XF86Config files).
    >>XFree86 v4.x is fine. Everything gets configured automatically for my
    >>1024x768/16bpp.
    >>BUT it is using 60Hz vert frequency only, no way to select something else.

    >
    >
    > Are you sure you're using the proper X server? You probably want
    > "s3virge". If you're using VESA instead, you will be stuck at 60 Hz
    > vsync.
    >
    > If you're using a non-VESA X server, you can still specify modes and
    > modelines in XF86Config. The syntax has changed a little from 3.3.6
    > though. Here's how to do it:
    >
    > # in /etc/X11/XF86Config
    > Section "Monitor"
    > Identifier "Monitor0" # don't change this
    > HorizSync 20-150 # adjust for your monitor
    > VertRefresh 10-400 # adjust for your monitor
    > # This is an example modeline; don't use it as it may not work
    > Modeline "640x480" 27.96 640 656 720 864 480 480 485 501
    > # add more modelines; you can use the X modeline generator at
    > # http://koala.ilog.fr/cgi-bin/nph-colas-modelines
    > EndSection
    >
    >
    >>-> Also I could see (on 3 different XFree86 v4 versions) that xvidtune
    >>crashes whenever I try to change a parameter.

    >
    >
    > Make sure you're not using the VESA X server. xvidtune won't work on
    > it. HTH anyway, bonne chance!
    >


    Hmm I don't think s3virge is capable of managing my card.
    scanpci prints out the info "S3 86c775/86c785 [Trio64V2/DX or /GX]".
    But indicates chipsets codes like "86c385" and alike, and
    not the two mines given by scanpci.
    Indeed, when I specify a chipset 86c775 or 86c785, s3virge X server
    complains the device isn't correct. Also if I specify a chipset
    belonging to the recognized list according to (I try many
    ones), linux immediately crashes (ctrlatldel ignored, need to hard
    reboot), generally on a black screen, sometimes on a fancy screen (like
    a bi-dimentional cellular automat with vertical temporal axis !). Not
    sure my monitor will be happy after tens of such tests, so I stopped it.
    Also note that I made these tests with a very easy to produce video
    mode: 640x480x8bpp/60Hz !

    Maybe I should contact the maintainer of s3virge device driver ?
    Any hint ?

    Gros Loup from Grenoble, France

  4. Re: Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card

    On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:53:09 +0200, Gros Loup staggered into the Black
    Sun and said:
    > Dances With Crows wrote:
    >> On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:16:48 +0200, Gros Loup staggered into the
    >> Black Sun and said:
    >>>At the time I used XFree 3.x, by tuning the XF86Config file I could
    >>>put my S3 Trio video card to a vert refresh between 75Hz and 80Hz (in
    >>>
    >>>Since I've been using XFree 4.x [...] Everything gets configured
    >>>automatically for my 1024x768/16bpp. BUT it is using 60Hz vert
    >>>frequency only, no way to select something else.

    >> Are you sure you're using the proper X server? You probably want
    >> "s3virge". If you're using VESA instead, you will be stuck at 60 Hz
    >> vsync.

    > Hmm I don't think s3virge is capable of managing my card. scanpci
    > prints out the info "S3 86c775/86c785 [Trio64V2/DX or /GX]". But > s3virge> indicates chipsets codes like "86c385" and alike, and not the
    > two mines given by scanpci.


    Right. Maybe the right X server is "s3", then. That one is apparently
    for the oldest S3 video cards, but it doesn't have a man page or any
    supporting documentation on XFree86's website. If it works, it'll be
    better than VESA. Were you using the VESA X server? It might help a
    lot if you posted your XF86Config file on your webspace and followed up
    to this message with the URL.

    > Indeed, when I specify a chipset 86c775 or 86c785, s3virge X server
    > complains the device isn't correct.


    Yeah, s3virge is almost certainly not the right one.

    > Also if I specify a chipset belonging to the recognized list according
    > to (I try many ones), linux immediately crashes
    > (ctrlatldel ignored, need to hard reboot), generally on a black
    > screen, sometimes on a fancy screen (like a bi-dimentional cellular
    > automat with vertical temporal axis !)


    If you specify a chipset instead of letting X detect it, then X will try
    to tweak registers which are present in the chipset you specified. If
    those registers are not present, you can get what they call "undefined
    behavior". Not fun.

    > Maybe I should contact the maintainer of s3virge device driver ? Any
    > hint ?


    Try "s3" first. If that doesn't work, then it's probably time to head
    over to the guys who maintain the S3 card drivers for X.org. I don't
    know for sure who they are, but... (x.org Bugzilla search)
    http://freedesktop.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=821 says that the "s3" X
    server is almost certainly the right one if you have a Trio64 card.

    > Gros Loup from Grenoble, France


    Écrivez en français si vous preferez, je peux le lire.

    --
    Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
    Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
    http://www.brainbench.com / Hire me!
    -----------------------------/ http://crow202.dyndns.org/~mhgraham/resume

  5. Re: Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card

    Dances With Crows wrote:
    >> Hmm I don't think s3virge is capable of managing my card. scanpci
    >> prints out the info "S3 86c775/86c785 [Trio64V2/DX or /GX]". But >> s3virge> indicates chipsets codes like "86c385" and alike, and not the
    >> two mines given by scanpci.


    > Right. Maybe the right X server is "s3", then. That one is apparently
    > for the oldest S3 video cards, but it doesn't have a man page or any
    > supporting documentation on XFree86's website. If it works, it'll be
    > better than VESA. Were you using the VESA X server? It might help a
    > lot if you posted your XF86Config file on your webspace and followed up
    > to this message with the URL.


    Some of the older cards aren't supported in the newer server.
    For those, the best bet is the XFree86 3.3.6 release. (I used to
    have an S3 trio, and seem to recall that was one that didn't get
    updated). For those, the config files are more complicated.

    --
    Thomas E. Dickey
    http://invisible-island.net
    ftp://invisible-island.net

  6. Re: Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card

    Dances With Crows wrote:
    > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:53:09 +0200, Gros Loup staggered into the Black
    > Sun and said:
    >
    >>Dances With Crows wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:16:48 +0200, Gros Loup staggered into the
    >>>Black Sun and said:
    >>>
    >>>>At the time I used XFree 3.x, by tuning the XF86Config file I could
    >>>>put my S3 Trio video card to a vert refresh between 75Hz and 80Hz (in
    >>>>
    >>>>Since I've been using XFree 4.x [...] Everything gets configured
    >>>>automatically for my 1024x768/16bpp. BUT it is using 60Hz vert
    >>>>frequency only, no way to select something else.
    >>>
    >>>Are you sure you're using the proper X server? You probably want
    >>>"s3virge". If you're using VESA instead, you will be stuck at 60 Hz
    >>>vsync.

    >>
    >>Hmm I don't think s3virge is capable of managing my card. scanpci
    >>prints out the info "S3 86c775/86c785 [Trio64V2/DX or /GX]". But >>s3virge> indicates chipsets codes like "86c385" and alike, and not the
    >>two mines given by scanpci.

    >
    >
    > Right. Maybe the right X server is "s3", then. That one is apparently
    > for the oldest S3 video cards, but it doesn't have a man page or any
    > supporting documentation on XFree86's website. If it works, it'll be
    > better than VESA. Were you using the VESA X server? It might help a
    > lot if you posted your XF86Config file on your webspace and followed up
    > to this message with the URL.
    >
    >
    >>Indeed, when I specify a chipset 86c775 or 86c785, s3virge X server
    >>complains the device isn't correct.

    >
    >
    > Yeah, s3virge is almost certainly not the right one.
    >
    >
    >>Also if I specify a chipset belonging to the recognized list according
    >>to (I try many ones), linux immediately crashes
    >>(ctrlatldel ignored, need to hard reboot), generally on a black
    >>screen, sometimes on a fancy screen (like a bi-dimentional cellular
    >>automat with vertical temporal axis !)

    >
    >
    > If you specify a chipset instead of letting X detect it, then X will try
    > to tweak registers which are present in the chipset you specified. If
    > those registers are not present, you can get what they call "undefined
    > behavior". Not fun.
    >
    >
    >>Maybe I should contact the maintainer of s3virge device driver ? Any
    >>hint ?

    >
    >
    > Try "s3" first. If that doesn't work, then it's probably time to head
    > over to the guys who maintain the S3 card drivers for X.org. I don't
    > know for sure who they are, but... (x.org Bugzilla search)
    > http://freedesktop.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=821 says that the "s3" X
    > server is almost certainly the right one if you have a Trio64 card.
    >
    >
    >>Gros Loup from Grenoble, France

    >
    >
    > Écrivez en français si vous preferez, je peux le lire.
    >


    That's fine, s3 driver accepts to start a graphical mode !
    Thanks for your help.
    (-> yes I was using vesa driver)

    Note that IMHO, it has not always been clear whereas Trio64V2/DX or /GX
    should be managed by VESA or S3 driver: on English version of hardware
    reqs doc (hardware HOWTO), vesa is specified, whereas on French
    translation, s3 is specified. That also would explain why auto-detect
    chooses vesa instead of s3.

    Now I'm playing with ModeLines setup. At the moment I obtained
    1024x768... 55 Hz ! But I will find out how to reach higher frequencies...

    Au revoir

    Gros Loup

  7. Re: Q : Vert refresh with XFree and a S3 Trio card

    Hello

    Now I am trying to obtain a frequency >= 70Hz (under 1024x768) with the S3
    driver, instead of the default vesa driver.
    To reach this goal I have two problems:
    1) The s3 driver claims the DCF is limited to 80Mhz, whereas I KNOW it can
    go beyond (see below).
    2) Even with DCF lower than 80Mhz, the image doesn't get displayed for too
    high refresh rates (the screen remains black).

    The Xfree3 config file I used to use, that *did* work fine, is attached with
    the name "XF86Config".
    The XFree4 config file I'm trying to tune now, that *does not* work, is
    attached with the name xorg.conf.

    -> As you can see, with XFree3, I could have 800x600x100Hz and
    1024x768x85Hz. Also I had a DCF of 98.9 with 1024x768 (depth 16), that is
    quite better than max 80Mhz as assumed by s3 driver for this depth (max
    135Mhz is assumed for depth 8, it looks like default built-in values).
    Here are the 2 ModeLines lines OK with XFree3:
    Modeline "800x600" 69.65 800 864 928 1088 600 604 610 640 -HSync
    -VSync
    Modeline "1024x768" 98.9 1024 1056 1216 1408 768 782 788 822 -HSync
    -VSync

    -> On the xorg.conf config file, the two ModeLines lines commented
    correspond to the best refresh rate I could successfully reach with XFree4,
    that is, 800x600x80Hz (that is comfortable) and 1024x768x56,29Hz (extremly
    blinking). Every time I try 60Hz with 1024x768, the screen remains black.

    Any hint this time ?

    Gros Loup from Grenoble, France


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