Seeker wrote:
> This is not an argument, but a discussion.
>
> A while back I asked a question concerning use of unprotected wireless
> networks from my desk at home. I was told it was illegal.
>
> I did not question it, until this weekend, when I became acutely aware
> that all over my city, in parks and playgrounds, along many streets,
> simply everywhere, there are people using laptops, connected via
> wireless. So I asked a random sample of 8 or 9 people how they were
> connected. All said they found unprotected networks everywhere in the
> city. I asked if they knew about the "illegality" of such use. They
> all said they were aware, but asked, as I do now, how would it be
> possible for people to do business while away from home or office, if
> such connections were unavailable?
>
> I think most individual net based businesses would simply collapse.
>
> The network I am using is available 24/7, with a far stronger signal
> than almost all the protected ones, and I have to believe that the
> person or entity which is the source of it is unconcerned about
> sharing their connection.
>
> I hope that the same MVP that responded will see this and respond. And
> of course any other feedback or discussion would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>

Not only is this off topic in this newsgroup, but it is foolish to seek
legal advice from anyone who is not a lawyer who you are paying for such
advice.

That said, there are numerous state and federal laws (in the US) as well
as laws in other countries that make "unauthorized access" to a network
illegal. See, for example,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_piggybacking

Computer Hacking and Unauthorized Access Laws
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/lis/cip/hacklaw.htm

What, you may say, is "unauthorized access" to an unencrypted wireless
network? I don't know. Do you want to find out in court?

--
Lem -- MS-MVP

To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm

On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:19:57 -0400, Lem wrote:

>Seeker wrote:
>> This is not an argument, but a discussion.
>>
>> A while back I asked a question concerning use of unprotected wireless
>> networks from my desk at home. I was told it was illegal.
>>
>> I did not question it, until this weekend, when I became acutely aware
>> that all over my city, in parks and playgrounds, along many streets,
>> simply everywhere, there are people using laptops, connected via
>> wireless. So I asked a random sample of 8 or 9 people how they were
>> connected. All said they found unprotected networks everywhere in the
>> city. I asked if they knew about the "illegality" of such use. They
>> all said they were aware, but asked, as I do now, how would it be
>> possible for people to do business while away from home or office, if
>> such connections were unavailable?
>>
>> I think most individual net based businesses would simply collapse.
>>
>> The network I am using is available 24/7, with a far stronger signal
>> than almost all the protected ones, and I have to believe that the
>> person or entity which is the source of it is unconcerned about
>> sharing their connection.
>>
>> I hope that the same MVP that responded will see this and respond. And
>> of course any other feedback or discussion would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>
>Not only is this off topic in this newsgroup, but it is foolish to seek
>legal advice from anyone who is not a lawyer who you are paying for such
>advice.
>
>That said, there are numerous state and federal laws (in the US) as well
>as laws in other countries that make "unauthorized access" to a network
>illegal. See, for example,
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_piggybacking
>
>Computer Hacking and Unauthorized Access Laws
>http://www.ncsl.org/programs/lis/cip/hacklaw.htm
>
>What, you may say, is "unauthorized access" to an unencrypted wireless
>network? I don't know. Do you want to find out in court?

Respecfully,

I don't see why it is off topic. This group is about wireless
connectivity, isn't it?

And the MVP who originally responded to my question had no problem
giving legal advice without a license to do so.

I see nothing in your response about using your laptop anywhere you
happen to be. You can't really expect to find a signal from your
office network while you are on the subway, can you? Are those people
guilty of a crime?

"Seeker" wrote in message
news:gm1f94ptrvbdhc2aftcrdm2039jqi9aduk@4ax.com...
> I did not question it, until this weekend, when I became acutely aware
> that all over my city, in parks and playgrounds, along many streets,
> simply everywhere, there are people using laptops, connected via
> wireless. So I asked a random sample of 8 or 9 people how they were
> connected. All said they found unprotected networks everywhere in the
> city. I asked if they knew about the "illegality" of such use. They
> all said they were aware, but asked, as I do now, how would it be
> possible for people to do business while away from home or office, if
> such connections were unavailable?

They are lazy idiots. Buy a Cell-Phone based Internet account or go to a
"real" and "official" wireless hot spot where the place welcomes and "wants"
people to use their facility.

> I think most individual net based businesses would simply collapse.

If a business collapes because its traveling employees could not steal from
someone's unprotected wireless hot-spot then it *should* go out of business.

> The network I am using is available 24/7, with a far stronger signal
> than almost all the protected ones,

The mouse always goes to the mouse trap with the jucyiest looking hunk of
cheese.

> and I have to believe that the
> person or entity which is the source of it is unconcerned about
> sharing their connection.

Totally irrelevant.
The idiots might start to care if your virus infected laptop spreads the
virus to the rest of their whole network,...everybody only seems to think
about lost bandwidth,..they never seem to think about the other
risks,...people are stupid.
And the other side of the logic,....If you are driving 95mph in a 45mph zone
and the other drivers don't appear to care about it because maybe they are
doing it too,...the police shouldn't bother you?


--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

See comments inline

Seeker wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:19:57 -0400, Lem wrote:
>
>> Seeker wrote:
>>> This is not an argument, but a discussion.
>>>
>>> A while back I asked a question concerning use of unprotected wireless
>>> networks from my desk at home. I was told it was illegal.
>>>
>>> I did not question it, until this weekend, when I became acutely aware
>>> that all over my city, in parks and playgrounds, along many streets,
>>> simply everywhere, there are people using laptops, connected via
>>> wireless. So I asked a random sample of 8 or 9 people how they were
>>> connected. All said they found unprotected networks everywhere in the
>>> city. I asked if they knew about the "illegality" of such use. They
>>> all said they were aware, but asked, as I do now, how would it be
>>> possible for people to do business while away from home or office, if
>>> such connections were unavailable?
>>>
>>> I think most individual net based businesses would simply collapse.
>>>
>>> The network I am using is available 24/7, with a far stronger signal
>>> than almost all the protected ones, and I have to believe that the
>>> person or entity which is the source of it is unconcerned about
>>> sharing their connection.
>>>
>>> I hope that the same MVP that responded will see this and respond. And
>>> of course any other feedback or discussion would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Not only is this off topic in this newsgroup, but it is foolish to seek
>> legal advice from anyone who is not a lawyer who you are paying for such
>> advice.
>>
>> That said, there are numerous state and federal laws (in the US) as well
>> as laws in other countries that make "unauthorized access" to a network
>> illegal. See, for example,
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_piggybacking
>>
>> Computer Hacking and Unauthorized Access Laws
>> http://www.ncsl.org/programs/lis/cip/hacklaw.htm
>>
>> What, you may say, is "unauthorized access" to an unencrypted wireless
>> network? I don't know. Do you want to find out in court?
>
> Respecfully,
>
> I don't see why it is off topic. This group is about wireless
> connectivity, isn't it?

No. This newsgroup is for technical issues concerning Windows wireless
networking, not wireless connectivity in general or non-technical
issues. Notwithstanding that, I (and apparently also the original MVP
to whom you refer) did give you a substantive response, unlike the "Post
in the correct group, you dummy" trolls who live under the bridges here.
>
> And the MVP who originally responded to my question had no problem
> giving legal advice without a license to do so.

Just because someone gives legal advice without being qualified to do so
doesn't make it "right." As your mother may told you, "Just because
your friend jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, that doesn't mean that you
should jump also." If you want free legal advice, do it yourself by
reading the relevant statutes at the links in my previous post.

>
> I see nothing in your response about using your laptop anywhere you
> happen to be. You can't really expect to find a signal from your
> office network while you are on the subway, can you? Are those people
> guilty of a crime?
>
>

There *are* free public wifi networks. Some businesses run them (e.g.,
Panera Bread) and some municipalities run them (e.g., Philadelphia).
Just because you can't find a signal from your office network doesn't
mean that you're entitled to free service from someone else.

You might *assume* that with the easy availability of encryption for
wireless networks, any owner of a wireless network who does not encrypt
access to his network has impliedly authorized anyone to access it.
That may sound reasonable to you. On the other hand, with the easy
availability of locks, you might also assume than anyone who doesn't
look his front door has impliedly authorized anyone to enter his house.
How reasonable does that sound?

The bottom line is that if you use someone's computer facilities
(including a wireless network) without authorization, you probably are
committing a crime. You may not care; I often exceed the speed limit
while driving. With respect to wireless networks, the safest course of
action is to assume that you are *not* authorized to use the network
unless you have explicit evidence to the contrary (such as the statement
"The Wireless Network Is Now Free" at
http://www.wirelessphiladelphia.org/).

--
Lem -- MS-MVP

To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm