Connecting two LANs - Windows NT

This is a discussion on Connecting two LANs - Windows NT ; I have an ethernet home LAN upstairs. Three computers are plugged into a Hub; the three computers run OS/2 Warp Connect or version 4 (peer), Windows NT server/workstation, and Windows for Workgroups. I want to add a few computers downstairs, ...

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Thread: Connecting two LANs

  1. Connecting two LANs

    I have an ethernet home LAN upstairs. Three computers are plugged into
    a Hub; the three computers run OS/2 Warp Connect or version 4 (peer),
    Windows NT server/workstation, and Windows for Workgroups.

    I want to add a few computers downstairs, running the same NOS but also
    OS/2 Warp Server. I'll string a cable from upstairs to downstairs.

    The question is - to what do I connect the cable and how do I configure
    the whole system? One idea is to use a hub downstairs as well as
    upstairs and string the cable between hubs. Another is to use two
    cables on an upstairs computer, one cable going to the upstairs hub and
    another cable to the downstairs hub. Would that make this computer a
    router? Or I could do the same but have the router downstairs? Any
    other configurations?

    Then there's the software configuration and setup. I understand that
    with NT, there's a problem with broadcasting from one subnet to
    another. Do I have subnets?

    TIA,

    Dan


  2. Re: Connecting two LANs

    Dan-the-K wrote:
    > I have an ethernet home LAN upstairs. Three computers are plugged into
    > a Hub; the three computers run OS/2 Warp Connect or version 4 (peer),
    > Windows NT server/workstation, and Windows for Workgroups.
    >
    > I want to add a few computers downstairs, running the same NOS but also
    > OS/2 Warp Server. I'll string a cable from upstairs to downstairs.
    >
    > The question is - to what do I connect the cable and how do I configure
    > the whole system? One idea is to use a hub downstairs as well as
    > upstairs and string the cable between hubs. Another is to use two
    > cables on an upstairs computer, one cable going to the upstairs hub and
    > another cable to the downstairs hub. Would that make this computer a
    > router? Or I could do the same but have the router downstairs? Any
    > other configurations?
    >
    > Then there's the software configuration and setup. I understand that
    > with NT, there's a problem with broadcasting from one subnet to
    > another. Do I have subnets?
    >
    > TIA,
    >
    > Dan
    >


    Dan,

    Keep it simple.
    Connect the upstairs hub to the downstairs hub with a 'cross-over'
    network cable if neither of the hubs have a 'X' port or switch for that.
    This way you can keep all the computers in the same sub-net, nothing to
    route.

    You dont memtion how your I-net connection works, dial-up, DSL, Cable or
    what. If its broad-band, you can get a router/firewall/DHCP server from
    one of many vendors. I have worked with Linksys, D-Link, and now have a
    Net Gear router. Get one with 4 (or more) ports. Plug 3 systems into
    it, and use the 4th port to feed the other floors hub. Again, one
    sub-net, no routing.

    If you want to learn about routing, then use a system with two NIC's,
    set for two sub-nets and start reading up about it. I have done this on
    Windy boxes, but not OS/2 boxes.

    Rich W.

  3. Re: Connecting two LANs

    Dan-the-K turpitued:

    >Then there's the software configuration and setup. I understand that
    >with NT, there's a problem with broadcasting from one subnet to
    >another. Do I have subnets?


    It all depends on your netmasks. Suppose, for example, that all your
    IP addresses are assigned in the 192.168.3.*, with mask 255.255.255.0.
    In that case everything in the range 192.168.3.1 up to 192.168.3.254
    is on the same subnet. (The first and last addresses in the
    range are reserved for special purposes.) But if, for example, one
    of the machines had an address 192.168.4.2, that one would be on a
    different subnet.

    Since it sounds as if you'll have fewer than 254 computers in your
    LAN, just give them addresses with the property that every computer
    in your house is in the same address range, i.e. such that the
    addresses differ only in their last byte. (There are ways to go
    beyond the 254 limit, but I doubt that you'll need to do that.)

    I'm less sure about the "two hubs" issue, but to the best of my
    knowledge you can have two hubs, one upstairs and one downstairs,
    and still keep the property that everything is on the same
    subnet. Basically, a subnet is any collection of addresses that
    define how far a broadcast will propagate. And if everything is
    on the same subnet then you don't need a new router.

    --
    Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au
    http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)

  4. Re: Connecting two LANs

    Rich Wonneberger wrote:
    > Dan-the-K wrote:
    > > I have an ethernet home LAN upstairs. Three computers are plugged into
    > > a Hub; the three computers run OS/2 Warp Connect or version 4 (peer),
    > > Windows NT server/workstation, and Windows for Workgroups.
    > >
    > > I want to add a few computers downstairs, running the same NOS but also
    > > OS/2 Warp Server. I'll string a cable from upstairs to downstairs.
    > >
    > > The question is - to what do I connect the cable and how do I configure
    > > the whole system? One idea is to use a hub downstairs as well as
    > > upstairs and string the cable between hubs. Another is to use two
    > > cables on an upstairs computer, one cable going to the upstairs hub and
    > > another cable to the downstairs hub. Would that make this computer a
    > > router? Or I could do the same but have the router downstairs? Any
    > > other configurations?
    > >
    > > Then there's the software configuration and setup. I understand that
    > > with NT, there's a problem with broadcasting from one subnet to
    > > another. Do I have subnets?
    > >
    > > TIA,
    > >
    > > Dan
    > >

    >
    > Dan,
    >
    > Keep it simple.
    > Connect the upstairs hub to the downstairs hub with a 'cross-over'
    > network cable if neither of the hubs have a 'X' port or switch for that.
    > This way you can keep all the computers in the same sub-net, nothing to
    > route.


    Further information - I'm using 10BaseT and the hubs are Baystack 102
    (20 ports) and 51 (8 ports, 1 marked Link and RX. The former has a
    switch for "MDI-X"/"MDI"; the latter has a switch for
    "Normal"/"Uplink". Is that what I'm looking for when you talk about an
    "X" port or crossover? The former hub provides a setup for selecting
    segments.


    >
    > You dont memtion how your I-net connection works, dial-up, DSL, Cable or
    > what. If its broad-band, you can get a router/firewall/DHCP server from
    > one of many vendors. I have worked with Linksys, D-Link, and now have a
    > Net Gear router. Get one with 4 (or more) ports. Plug 3 systems into
    > it, and use the 4th port to feed the other floors hub. Again, one
    > sub-net, no routing.



    I'm not interested in Internet connections. One machine dials out on a
    modem; I'm not interested in involving the network.


    >
    > If you want to learn about routing, then use a system with two NIC's,
    > set for two sub-nets and start reading up about it. I have done this on
    > Windy boxes, but not OS/2 boxes.
    >
    > Rich W.


    Oh, protocols. If I look on this box, currently running Windows NT
    Server, I use TCP/IP and NetBEUI. I got greedy with addresses and use
    192.168.x.x with mask 255.255.0.0.

    Dan


  5. Re: Connecting two LANs

    Dan-the K wrote:

    > Further information - I'm using 10BaseT and the hubs are Baystack 102
    > (20 ports) and 51 (8 ports, 1 marked Link and RX. The former has a
    > switch for "MDI-X"/"MDI"; the latter has a switch for
    > "Normal"/"Uplink". Is that what I'm looking for when you talk about an
    > "X" port or crossover? The former hub provides a setup for selecting
    > segments.


    Are these "hubs" or "switches"? Those are superficially much the same,
    but there are some important differences. If they are "switches" you
    can connect them just about any way you like without problems (you only
    need to avoid creating loops, where one port on a switch is connected to
    another port on the same switch via some number of intermediate
    switches). If they really are "hubs", you're very limited in how you
    can connect them and in the total length of cables between any two
    systems connected to them.

    With this simple a setup you're not likely to get into trouble, but the
    kind of errors you'd get if you violate the rules are flaky and hard to
    track down. Switches used to be much more expensive than hubs, but in
    recent years prices have come way down and just about anything you can
    buy is actually a switch.

    Dave


  6. Re: Connecting two LANs

    On 2 Aug 2005 16:31:19 -0700, Dan-the-K wrote:

    >I have an ethernet home LAN upstairs. Three computers are plugged into
    >a Hub; the three computers run OS/2 Warp Connect or version 4 (peer),
    >Windows NT server/workstation, and Windows for Workgroups.
    >
    >I want to add a few computers downstairs, running the same NOS but also
    >OS/2 Warp Server. I'll string a cable from upstairs to downstairs.
    >
    >The question is - to what do I connect the cable and how do I configure
    >the whole system? One idea is to use a hub downstairs as well as
    >upstairs and string the cable between hubs. Another is to use two
    >cables on an upstairs computer, one cable going to the upstairs hub and
    >another cable to the downstairs hub. Would that make this computer a
    >router? Or I could do the same but have the router downstairs? Any
    >other configurations?
    >
    >Then there's the software configuration and setup. I understand that
    >with NT, there's a problem with broadcasting from one subnet to
    >another. Do I have subnets?
    >
    >TIA,
    >
    >Dan
    >

    My system is very simular to the one you are planning. I chose to
    connect the two hubs with a 10base2 though. The cable is a little
    more flexible and it will make a longer run. I recently added a
    router to take advantage of In-joy enhanced NAT. It allows upto
    four users on one dialup at the same time.
    Doug Kneupper



  7. Re: Connecting two LANs

    Dave: they're hubs. Each of them has "hub" imprinted on them.

    Doug Kneupper wrote:
    > On 2 Aug 2005 16:31:19 -0700, Dan-the-K wrote:
    >
    > >I have an ethernet home LAN upstairs. Three computers are plugged into
    > >a Hub; the three computers run OS/2 Warp Connect or version 4 (peer),
    > >Windows NT server/workstation, and Windows for Workgroups.
    > >
    > >I want to add a few computers downstairs, running the same NOS but also
    > >OS/2 Warp Server. I'll string a cable from upstairs to downstairs.
    > >
    > >The question is - to what do I connect the cable and how do I configure
    > >the whole system? ...
    > >
    > >Then there's the software configuration and setup. I understand that
    > >with NT, there's a problem with broadcasting from one subnet to
    > >another. Do I have subnets?
    > >
    > >TIA,
    > >
    > >Dan
    > >

    > My system is very simular to the one you are planning. I chose to
    > connect the two hubs with a 10base2 though. The cable is a little
    > more flexible and it will make a longer run. I recently added a
    > router to take advantage of In-joy enhanced NAT. It allows upto
    > four users on one dialup at the same time.
    > Doug Kneupper


    It would be very easy to do this with a 10Base2 network. In fact, I
    started the network as 10Base2. It was very easy to set up and learn
    from. In fact, I could still make the basement part 10Base2 - one of
    the hubs takes both RJ-45 and BNC. Hmmmmm.

    Dan


  8. Re: Connecting two LANs

    Dan-the-K wrote:
    > I have an ethernet home LAN upstairs. Three computers are plugged into
    > a Hub; the three computers run OS/2 Warp Connect or version 4 (peer),
    > Windows NT server/workstation, and Windows for Workgroups.
    >
    > I want to add a few computers downstairs, running the same NOS but also
    > OS/2 Warp Server. I'll string a cable from upstairs to downstairs.
    >
    > The question is - to what do I connect the cable and how do I configure
    > the whole system?
    >

    This is why ethernet switches were created.
    You run a cable (rj45/cat5) from a port on the hub to the "uplink" port
    on a switch. The network simply expands without needing any tricky routers
    or host re-configuration.

    --
    jmm dash list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

  9. Re: Connecting two LANs

    Jim Moe wrote:
    > Dan-the-K wrote:
    > > I have an ethernet home LAN upstairs. Three computers are plugged into
    > > a Hub; the three computers run OS/2 Warp Connect or version 4 (peer),
    > > Windows NT server/workstation, and Windows for Workgroups.
    > >
    > > I want to add a few computers downstairs, running the same NOS but also
    > > OS/2 Warp Server. I'll string a cable from upstairs to downstairs.
    > >
    > > The question is - to what do I connect the cable and how do I configure
    > > the whole system?
    > >

    > This is why ethernet switches were created.
    > You run a cable (rj45/cat5) from a port on the hub to the "uplink" port
    > on a switch. The network simply expands without needing any tricky routers
    > or host re-configuration.
    >
    > jmm dash list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    > (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)


    It worked! Upstairs I had two computers on the network using one Hub
    (Baystack 102). I left one connected to the 102, connected the other
    computer to the Baystack 51, strung a cable between the two hubs and it
    works great! Fortunately, I have the 102 manual and read how port 1 is
    designed for interconnection to another hub. I had to play around with
    the switches - the 102 wants MDI, not MDI-X, and the 51 wants normal,
    not uplink.

    Thanks for the help.

    Dan


  10. Re: Connecting two LANs

    Hi, David!

    David L. Beem wrote:
    > Hi Dan & Uli,
    > > It isn't more difficult with a 10BaseT network.When you connect
    > > both your hubs with a ordinary Cat5 ethernet cable, you have to
    > > use on one side MDI-X/Uplink and a normal MDI port on the
    > > other side. If you decide to use 10base2 for interconnecting the 2
    > > hubs, the network topology remains the same. Each hub counts as
    > > 1 Repeater. As long as all cabling is ok this is a very simple network.

    > Yes, for Dan's hubs (which I knew, because a[n ethernet] switch won't
    > have a switch to switch the port wiring) they will have to have the
    > interlink like Uli said. Still surprised I had to complete a job from a
    > middle-aged network cable guy that couldn't figure out the ports on a hub.
    > An ethernet switch, or many modern Ethernet devices (but there can be
    > strange errors some times) are able to adjust whether the cable is
    > straight-through or crossover.
    > That said, best expandibility is to wire with CAT5 (5e or 6 if you can
    > readily get it for a low price) if the wiring is in any way permanent.

    ....

    This is semi-permanent. It's my mother's house; I live upstairs and
    can treat the basement as a laboratory. My mother swings between "feel
    free to do anything you want" and "its my house; I don't want you doing
    anything." So stringing the cable down one flight of stairs, all the
    way around to the other side of the house, and down another flight of
    stairs is off limits. However, I can string the cable out the window,
    down to the basement, and in the basement's window.

    I have thought that I might someday turn the basement into an office,
    in which case I'd hire a professional.

    Dan


    > David
    > David@IBMMuseum.com



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