Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance - Windows NT

This is a discussion on Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance - Windows NT ; http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/h...news/55149.htm Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance By Patrick Cronin pcronin@seacoastonlie.com [Click Here] HAMPTON - A parent of a Hampton Academy Junior High School student says the principal of the school told his son to leave the ...

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  1. Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/h...news/55149.htm


    Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    By Patrick Cronin
    pcronin@seacoastonlie.com
    [Click Here]

    HAMPTON - A parent of a Hampton Academy Junior High School student says the
    principal of the school told his son to leave the schoolís holiday dance on
    Friday night because the boy was dressed in a Santa Claus costume, which was
    politically incorrect.
    Michael Lafond said his son, Bryan, went to the dance dressed as Santa because
    it was a holiday party.

    "He asked if he could dress like Santa and we said yes," said Lafond. "We went
    to Brooks and purchased the outfit and everything."

    Lafond said his wife dropped off Bryan at the school.

    "I went to the dance with my friend," said Bryan Lafond, who is in seventh
    grade. "He had an elf hat on and we thought it was pretty cool. Everyone loved
    the suit, but when I went by the principal, he asked why I was dressed like
    that."

    Principal Fred Muscara said he told the boy he couldnít get into the dance
    because he was wearing the costume.

    "It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party. There
    is a separation of church and state. We have a lot of students that go to
    Hampton Academy Junior High that have different religions. We have to be
    sensitive to that."

    Bryan said while Muscara didnít say he had to leave, he told Bryan if he
    wanted to go the dance he would have to change out of the suit and put on
    proper attire for the dance.

    Having nothing to change into, Bryan left the dance to try and find his
    mother.

    "My wife was leaving the parking lot when she saw Bryan running out of the
    building," said Lafond. "He told her that the principal said it was
    politically incorrect to wear the Santa outfit."

    "I saw him running out of the building crying," said Leslie Lafond, Bryanís
    mother.

    Lafond said while he disagrees with their reasoning he could almost understand
    it.

    What he couldnít understand was why his son was able to leave the dance.

    "One of reasons why we are so angry is that the school has a policy that says
    once you go to the dance you canít leave until itís over," said Lafond. "You
    canít leave school grounds unless they call a parent. If my wife wasnít there,
    my son would have been out roaming the streets."

    Bryanís mother picked up her son and drove him home to change.

    Lafond said his wife had to persuade Bryan to go back to the dance.

    "He was so embarrassed," said Lafond. "It wasnít like he was trying to pull a
    prank. He is just a good-natured kid getting into the holiday spirit who just
    happened to walk right by Scrooge."

    Muscara said he was unaware that Bryan left the dance.

    "I asked if he had something he could change into and he said he did," said
    Muscara.

    Lafond said when his wife drove Bryan back to the dance, she complained to
    school officials.

    She said she also complained to several School Board members and Muscara.

    On Monday, Bryanís parents went before the School Board to voice their
    concerns.

    "I donít want this to happen again," said Leslie. "It is unacceptable. When
    Bryan returned to the school, the principal said, ĎWhat are you doing, trying
    to get me fired.í That is not a proper comment to make to a student."

    Superintendent James Gaylord told the School Board it would discuss the matter
    in non-public session because it involved a student and personnel.

    When contacted at her house Monday afternoon, Hampton School Board Chairman
    Nancy Serpis said she was concerned with what she heard.

    "We need to look at the whole situation," said Serpis.

    Lafond said political correctness is getting out of control.

    "I donít get it," said Lafond, citing a PTA breakfast with Santa at the school
    a couple of weeks ago.

    "Whatís next? Are they going to get rid of Halloween because of paganism?" he
    asked.

    "The last time I checked, Christmas was the celebration of the birth of Christ
    and not Santa Claus," Leslie said. "I want them to make an apology to my son.
    My son was humiliated."




  2. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:42:54 GMT, fmuscara@sau21.k12.nh.us (Fred
    Muscara) wrote:

    >"It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party. There
    >is a separation of church and state.


    Why does a principal of a school not know that there is NO mention of
    "separation of church of state" anywhere in the Constitution?

    That ****tard should be shot.

  3. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu" wrote in message
    news:92pns0dpikv0vokn69lkgdbk27g5ro9v29@4ax.com...
    > On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:42:54 GMT, fmuscara@sau21.k12.nh.us (Fred
    > Muscara) wrote:
    >
    >>"It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party.
    >>There
    >>is a separation of church and state.

    >
    > Why does a principal of a school not know that there is NO mention of
    > "separation of church of state" anywhere in the Constitution?


    Yes it's inane.

    But if you don't think the establishment clause wasn't intended
    as a barrier between church and state, you're an idiot.



  4. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance



    mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu wrote:
    > On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:42:54 GMT, fmuscara@sau21.k12.nh.us (Fred
    > Muscara) wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party. There
    >>is a separation of church and state.

    >
    >
    > Why does a principal of a school not know that there is NO mention of
    > "separation of church of state" anywhere in the Constitution?
    >
    > That ****tard should be shot.


    Obviously, a kid wearing a Santa costume doesn't violate any principle
    of the "separation of church and state", and the principal doesn't
    appear to be playing with a full deck. But the principal didn't just
    make up the expression himself out of thin air either; it may not appear
    in the Constitution itself, but it's in numerous US Supreme Court
    decisions interpreting the Constitution, and the USSC traced it to
    Jefferson:

    "Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither
    can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one
    religion over another. Neither can force or influence a person to go to
    or to remain away from church against his will, or force him to profess
    a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for
    entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church
    attendance or nonattendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can
    be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever
    they may be called or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice
    religion. Neither a state nor [p211] the Federal Government can, openly
    or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations
    or groups, and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against
    establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of
    separation between church and State."

    Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1.


  5. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu" wrote:
    > On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:42:54 GMT, fmuscara@sau21.k12.nh.us (Fred
    > Muscara) wrote:
    >
    > >"It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party.

    There
    > >is a separation of church and state.

    >
    > Why does a principal of a school not know that there is NO mention of
    > "separation of church of state" anywhere in the Constitution?
    >
    > That ****tard should be shot.


    I guess he doesn't know that Santa isn't actually a Biblical character...


    --
    David Meadows
    I've got nothing to say today
    I used my words up yesterday



  6. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance


    "Geoff" wrote in message
    news:2DVyd.705199$mD.338279@attbi_s02...
    > "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu" wrote in message
    > news:92pns0dpikv0vokn69lkgdbk27g5ro9v29@4ax.com...
    >> On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:42:54 GMT, fmuscara@sau21.k12.nh.us (Fred
    >> Muscara) wrote:
    >>
    >>>"It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party.
    >>>There
    >>>is a separation of church and state.

    >>
    >> Why does a principal of a school not know that there is NO mention of
    >> "separation of church of state" anywhere in the Constitution?

    >
    > Yes it's inane.
    >
    > But if you don't think the establishment clause wasn't intended
    > as a barrier between church and state, you're an idiot.
    >


    Your the idiot it means what it says. Congress cannot establish a state
    religion. AND prohibit the free practice of religion.
    Why can Islam be practiced in school and is taught in school but the Bible
    cannot be mentioned. There is no barrier. Learn to read. By all these idiots
    on the courts and running schools we are slowly losing our right which one
    will be next?

    BTW this country was settled by people looking for the freedom to practice
    their religion. Now it is becoming a country of bigots that believe the
    "establishment clause as you call it" is becoming a country where religion
    will only be allowed in the closet. We are headed the way the Soviet Union
    was, intolerant of religion.

    BTW Santa Clause is not religious



  7. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:41:20 -0000, "David Meadows"
    wrote:

    >I guess he doesn't know that Santa isn't actually a Biblical character...


    Wasn't Santa the guy who put two of every animal on the ark???:-)

  8. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:50:54 -0500, johnebravo836
    wrote:

    >it may not appear
    >in the Constitution itself, but it's in numerous US Supreme Court
    >decisions interpreting the Constitution, and the USSC traced it to


    Our Declaration of Independence says "endowed by our creator" and we
    have "In God We Trust" on our currency.

    Our nation was founded upon religion (any religion you choose
    including no religion) and the free exercise thereof. Any ****tarded
    principal that doesn't have this basic knowledge should be out of a
    job.

  9. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    "Dino" wrote in message
    news:HdZyd.11403$152.9429@trndny01...
    >
    > "Geoff" wrote in message
    > news:2DVyd.705199$mD.338279@attbi_s02...
    >> "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu" wrote in message
    >> news:92pns0dpikv0vokn69lkgdbk27g5ro9v29@4ax.com...
    >>> On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:42:54 GMT, fmuscara@sau21.k12.nh.us (Fred
    >>> Muscara) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>"It was a holiday party," said Muscara. "It was not a Christmas party.
    >>>>There
    >>>>is a separation of church and state.
    >>>
    >>> Why does a principal of a school not know that there is NO mention of
    >>> "separation of church of state" anywhere in the Constitution?

    >>
    >> Yes it's inane.
    >>
    >> But if you don't think the establishment clause wasn't intended
    >> as a barrier between church and state, you're an idiot.
    >>

    >
    > Your the idiot it means what it says. Congress cannot establish a state
    > religion. AND prohibit the free practice of religion.


    OK...first off...I apologize for calling Mr. Dude an idiot. Such name
    calling
    only incites emotional responses.

    Mr. Dude said "Why does a principal of a school not know that there
    is NO mention of "separation of church of state" anywhere in the
    Constitution?"

    I know, the statement "separation of church and state" do not appear
    overtly in the Constitution. But neither does the right to privacy or
    the right to a fair trial. But both are guaranteed by interpretation of
    specific amendments to the constitution. The Constitution was written
    with an economy of words. Subsequent interpretation is based upon
    ancillary documents as well as the strict wording.

    The Establishment clause says basically that the state cannot foster ("make
    no law respecting an establishment of religion") or hinder religious
    practice
    ("or prohibiting the free exercise thereof")

    Many people misread the first statement as "make no law respecting an
    establishment of A religion". The absence of the "a" is significant. With
    the
    "a", some mistake it for saying that the state just cannot favor one
    religion,
    but can favor many religions. This is wrong. The Constitution (unclearly)
    says that the state cannot favor religion. Period.

    > Why can Islam be practiced in school and is taught in school but the Bible
    > cannot be mentioned. There is no barrier. Learn to read. By all these
    > idiots on the courts and running schools we are slowly losing our right
    > which one will be next?


    Any PUBLIC school that teaches Islam, Zoroastrianism, or any religion is
    violating the Establishment clause. If you know of ANY school that does
    this,
    I encourage you to contact your local congressman.

    If your child attends a public school, he/she may study religion to his
    hearts
    content the better part of the day and all of the weekend.

    > BTW this country was settled by people looking for the freedom to practice
    > their religion. Now it is becoming a country of bigots that believe the
    > "establishment clause as you call it" is becoming a country where religion
    > will only be allowed in the closet. We are headed the way the Soviet Union
    > was, intolerant of religion.


    The Establishment clause DOES NOT mean religious intolerance. It quite
    simply means that the government must remain NEUTRAL with regard to
    religion. Far from handicapping religion, it leaves religious authority
    unfettered by government.

    Statements like "we are headed the way of the Soviet Union" are panicky
    hyperbole. No country in history has EVER had the religious freedom
    that the US has. Churches are on every corner. Televangelists are on 24/7.
    Every citizen has the right to practice any religion and donate as much of
    their hard earned cash they want to their church.

    > BTW Santa Clause is not religious


    Well, strictly speaking, Santa Claus IS a religious figure. I have NO idea
    where you got the idea that he isn't. That being said, a child dressing as
    a religious figure does not IMHO violate the Establishment clause.



  10. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    "mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu" wrote in message
    news17ps0lk0qabd67er90eao9ntghro2hd1d@4ax.com...
    > On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:41:20 -0000, "David Meadows"
    > wrote:
    >
    >>I guess he doesn't know that Santa isn't actually a Biblical character...

    >
    > Wasn't Santa the guy who put two of every animal on the ark???:-)


    Which two reindeer made it?



  11. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:09:49 +0000, mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu wrote:

    > On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:50:54 -0500, johnebravo836
    > wrote:
    >
    >>it may not appear
    >>in the Constitution itself, but it's in numerous US Supreme Court
    >>decisions interpreting the Constitution, and the USSC traced it to

    >
    > Our Declaration of Independence says "endowed by our creator" and we
    > have "In God We Trust" on our currency.


    In God We Trust started to appear on US coins sometime between
    1900-1910. In the 1950's, it became mandatory for the phrase to appear on
    all US currency.

    Night


  12. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    "night" wrote in message
    newsan.2004.12.26.03.35.19.653791@sorry.net...
    > On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:09:49 +0000, mr dude@harvarduniversity.edu wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 11:50:54 -0500, johnebravo836
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>it may not appear
    >>>in the Constitution itself, but it's in numerous US Supreme Court
    >>>decisions interpreting the Constitution, and the USSC traced it to

    >>
    >> Our Declaration of Independence says "endowed by our creator" and we
    >> have "In God We Trust" on our currency.

    >
    > In God We Trust started to appear on US coins sometime between
    > 1900-1910. In the 1950's, it became mandatory for the phrase to appear on
    > all US currency.


    And the Declaration is not in any way a legal document. It was written
    by Thomas Jefferson - who along with Madison, Franklin, Washington,
    Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen - was a Deist. Deists believe in a creator,
    but one that is unknowable and not intimately involved in creation.



  13. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    It just seems to me if a school official dressed as Santa for a school
    event, fine, make an arguement that the "govt" (in this case a middle
    school employee) is sanctioning a christian holiday and therefore a
    non-specific christian religion.

    but if it's a kid, the school is violating the other half of that
    clause - it is hindering the free excercise of the student. Had he been
    wearing a yamaka (sp?) or some other religious costume or adornment
    would the same controversy have ensued? It seems to me that an
    individual who works for a public/govt organization should refrain from
    openly displaying religious preferences only when in a professional,
    work-related environment. At any other time, or if it's anyone else,
    why should it be a problem?

    And I'm being nice by merely accepting without debate the notion that
    wearing a Santa suit is a religious statement. That dubious point
    doesn't need to be refuted in pointing out the error of the school.

    -B


  14. Re: Boy in a Santa suit asked to quit dance

    Fred Muscara wrote:
    (snip)

    This is off topic in every NG on the address line. If you're going to
    get bent out of shape, at least get bent out of shape about something
    pertinent.


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