Palm goes Windows Mobile - Windows CE

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Thread: Palm goes Windows Mobile

  1. Palm goes Windows Mobile


  2. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile


    "Martin T" wrote in message
    news:np1hj1pes22vj3a6sb4uipvllqrbsld3dm@4ax.com...
    > http://www.palm.com/us/
    >
    > martin
    >


    and the relevance to a Psion newsgroups is?



  3. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Martin T wrote:
    >
    > http://www.palm.com/us/


    Yeah, that made the news a lot yesterday.

    Also of note, the number of the big handset manufacturers that are
    looking at windows and linux.

    In terms of Palm, I suspect they got a very generous compensation from
    Microsoft to make that device. If I remember correctly, Palm had hinted
    at moving to Linux not so long ago. I suspect MS may have stepped in to
    kill those plans.


    Is it just me, or is the future of Symbian quite bleak ? Or has Symbian
    OS (aka: EPOC32) become prevalent in modern handsets, even those not
    marketd as "smartphones" ?

    eg: do the basic phones with cameras and other gadgets still run
    proprietary OS or are they mostly all Symbian based now ?

  4. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    The Electric Fan Club wrote:
    > and the relevance to a Psion newsgroups is?


    Very relevant.

    At the time PSION rushed the Series 5 out before it was ready, it was
    partly because it feared that Microsoft would take over the market
    instantly with its "WIN CE" thing. In fact, PSION started to pull out
    of the market right at that time.

    Ironically, Microsoft wasn't anywhere near ready for PDAs/Mobile
    devices, and it was PALM that took over the PDA market. And it took many
    iterations of Microsoft's attempt at a PDA version of Windows before it
    became palatable. And now, even PALM is succombing to Microsoft's
    pressure.

    So what is now left is the RIM Blackberry.

  5. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    JF Mezei writes:
    > became palatable. And now, even PALM is succombing to Microsoft's
    > pressure.


    Has Palm given up on PalmOS, or simply added a WinCE product to its
    lineup?

  6. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    In article <4339112F.44CADD8@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei wrote:
    > eg: do the basic phones with cameras and other gadgets still run
    > proprietary OS or are they mostly all Symbian based now ?
    >

    Errr, isn't SymbianOS a proprietary OS. Viz, closed-source, sold
    or licensed to manufacturers for inclusion in particular devices, not
    given away for "free as in speech, or beer".

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: +57°10' , -02°09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:11 +0100


  7. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    In article <7xachy25si.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
    Paul Rubin wrote:

    > Has Palm given up on PalmOS, or simply added a WinCE product to its
    > lineup?


    For the moment, the latter.

    --
    Steven Fisher; sdfisher@spamcop.net
    "Morituri Nolumus Mori."

  8. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    CNET has a good article on PALM

    http://news.com.com/Five+reasons+for...?tag=nefd.lede


    Looking back, perhaps PSION's Potter was right in abandonning the PDA
    market. But I think he did it prematurely. He could have kept EPOC32 a
    while longer to move it forwards and get a few good years of PDA sales.
    And he really should havbe pushed through the smartphone with motorola,
    a project that fell through.

    In the end, PSION would still have left the market, but would have had a
    few more good years instead of being forgotten into oblivion.

    I now expect Microsoft to tweak its Exchange server to make it very hard
    for RIM to have its sofwtare work well. The media's conclusion is that
    Palm is moving to Windows to please corporate customers who feel more
    confident having a windows PDA talk to their windows servers. The
    minute people start to report problems with the RIM integration to
    Exchange, the same will happen to RIM.

  9. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Microsoft sees Crackberry addiction as a potential
    threat so they're going after it:
    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000377038653

    The latest version of their crappy Windows Mobile
    OS would do squat by itself or in a traditional Palm-
    type device like an iPaq, so they needed a BlackBerry
    type device as a platform and the Palm Treo fit the
    bill. Done deal. I'd be surprised if a brand new device
    doesn't out next year that more closely resembles a
    standard BlackBerry and be given a name like
    "BlueBerry" to confuse the average computer-illiterate
    corporate user into thinking that it was an upgrade.
    (Don't laugh -- do you remember what Microsoft first
    tried to call CE? "Palm PC.")

    RIM would do well to take advantage of its likely
    fleeting moment in the tech sun to improve it's
    server support. Having BES only support Domino
    and Exchange Server is stupid beyond words. They
    should come up with a standalone product
    incorporating both an IMAP and iCalendar server.
    They also should also expand server support to
    all 3rd party IMAP servers. One glaring failure of
    Palm was that they never came up with a server
    version of their Palm Desktop even though there
    was a lot of interest in having one. RIM should try
    to learn from such mistakes. Outlook/Exchange
    systems are high-maintenance mountains of crapware
    that don't do anything well, but they do it all
    together, which is what's important to unsavvy
    computer users. If their BlackBerrys do what they
    them to do, they could care less about what happens
    in the backgound.

    -BC


  10. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    JF Mezei wrote in
    news:4339EE2B.A60B1D40@teksavvy.com:

    > CNET has a good article on PALM
    >
    > http://news.com.com/Five+reasons+for...1_3-5884040.ht
    > ml?tag=nefd.lede
    >
    >
    > Looking back, perhaps PSION's Potter was right in abandonning the PDA
    > market. But I think he did it prematurely. He could have kept EPOC32
    > a while longer to move it forwards and get a few good years of PDA
    > sales. And he really should havbe pushed through the smartphone with
    > motorola, a project that fell through.
    >
    > In the end, PSION would still have left the market, but would have had
    > a few more good years instead of being forgotten into oblivion.
    >
    > I now expect Microsoft to tweak its Exchange server to make it very
    > hard for RIM to have its sofwtare work well. The media's conclusion is
    > that Palm is moving to Windows to please corporate customers who feel
    > more confident having a windows PDA talk to their windows servers.
    > The minute people start to report problems with the RIM integration to
    > Exchange, the same will happen to RIM.


    Prematurely? Are you kidding? I don't have the figures to hand now, but
    at the time they pulled out the figures were terrible. I remember
    standing next to someone in a shop who was buying a PDA, and in spite of
    the repeated attempts to push a Revo Plus, the lady just wasn't having
    it, and insisted on a neat little device with a colour screen (no, not a
    Series 7).

    Psion was hammered - they failed to innovate in the end, and just served
    up the same goods while Palm left them behind. Now Palm is going to get
    hammered, and then Blackberry - just look at what Windows Mobile 5 can
    do. It's obivous where M$ is positioning the product.

    They will win because they are M$, and they have the moeny to throw at
    any business venture, and the public has the confidence that they will
    deliver value (eventually). More than, the public has the confidence that
    M$ will produce something that is well integrated - something Psion never
    did, and I find Symbian is even worse at (P910i).

    Symbian? I wish they'd produce a netbook with the latest gizmos,
    bluetooth, WiFi, USB connection and a card reader built in, with GSM/GPRS
    connection. The technology would be easy - all this can be done in palm-
    sized gadgets now. In fact, from what I hear, even Symbian is about to
    die: Nokia is basically keeping the ship afloat but they are now
    considering going to Linux.

    It's all very depressing.

    Boris

  11. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    In article , Boris
    Borisovich wrote:
    > just look at what Windows Mobile 5 can
    > do.
    >

    Run the batteries flat in less than a week. Big factor.

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: +57°10' , -02°09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:39 +0100


  12. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Aidan Karley
    wrote in news:VA.00000956.333b3549@validemailaddresstoa.new s.group:

    > In article , Boris
    > Borisovich wrote:
    >> just look at what Windows Mobile 5 can
    >> do.
    >>

    > Run the batteries flat in less than a week. Big factor.
    >


    Good point - but I have never found that to be a factor. Even when Pocket
    PC first came out, and battery life was TERRIBLE, just 2 or 3 hours at
    most, I never ran out of juice (well the machine didn't anyway), I always
    got to the office/home and had it in the charging cradle.

    Just had my SE P910 out all day and had some serious usage out of it -
    several big emails, lots of calls, (a few games) - most of the battery gone
    in a day. Pocket PC is not that bad.

    Boris

  13. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Aidan Karley wrote:
    > In article , Boris
    > Borisovich wrote:
    >
    >>just look at what Windows Mobile 5 can
    >>do.
    >>

    >
    > Run the batteries flat in less than a week. Big factor.
    >

    Less than a day more like.....

  14. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Boris Borisovich wrote:

    > Prematurely? Are you kidding? I don't have the figures to hand now, but
    > at the time they pulled out the figures were terrible. I remember
    > standing next to someone in a shop who was buying a PDA, and in spite of
    > the repeated attempts to push a Revo Plus, the lady just wasn't having
    > it, and insisted on a neat little device with a colour screen (no, not a
    > Series 7).



    PSION began to dismantle its marketing and distribution at the same time
    as it launched the Series 5. It retreated to the UK and western europe
    markets only until it formally abandonned the market. It had already
    given up on hopes to beat Microsoft (and was ignoring Palm because it
    was saying it was a "different type" of device.

    When you consider how long it took for PSION to complete the Series 5
    and release the 5 MX with the features originally promised in the Series
    5, it was already an indication that PSION wasn't putting priority on
    PDAs anymore.

  15. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    In article , Boris
    Borisovich wrote:
    > Good point - but I have never found that to be a factor.
    >

    Your mileage may vary. I have quite often spent several days at
    a stretch out of reach of any power supply, and since the GPS uses
    (well "used" - before the burglars had it) more than a pair of AA/day,
    you rapidly end up carrying hundreds of grams of batteries alone.
    Battery usage is a major issue for me.

    --
    Aidan Karley,
    Aberdeen, Scotland,
    Location: +57°10' , -02°09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
    Written at Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:25 +0100


  16. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Captain's log. On StarDate Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:45:50 -0400 received comm from JF
    Mezei on channel comp.os.ms-windows.ce:

    : PSION began to dismantle its marketing and distribution at the same time
    : as it launched the Series 5. It retreated to the UK and western europe
    : markets only until it formally abandonned the market. It had already
    : given up on hopes to beat Microsoft (and was ignoring Palm because it
    : was saying it was a "different type" of device.

    At that time I partly bought Psion's official line, but I now think it was a
    big mistake for Psion to ignore the palm type of devices. If Microsoft would
    have done so (at the time I was critical of them focusing on palm/ppc devices
    and not on HPC devices) I don't think even Windows Mobile would have been alive
    today.

    I personally have always preferred keyboard based devices, but the market at
    that time had totally bought the pen/palm-formfactor type of devices.

    Part of the problem why keyboard devices went out of fashion was probably that
    the keyboards got too good -- as they got better they also got bigger -- and
    that led to bigger and clumsier devices. In the end they even got so big that
    they started to compete and replace notebooks. This was a mistake as the
    technology made the PC based notebooks smaller, thinner, lighter and consume
    less power. Customers clearly preferred light full desktop Windows machines over
    Symbian and Windows CE/HPC based notebooks.

    It was first with RIM BlackBerry, and partly also advanced mobile phones with
    build in small keyboards (including the Handspring Treo line), that the Psion
    Series 3/Sienna type of keyboards made a big comeback in fashion.

    While I do like the quality of Psion Series 5 and HP HPC keyboards, I have to
    say that I prefer the trend going back to smaller and more portable keyboard
    devices.

    I have thought of getting a separate bluetooth keyboard for my windows mobile
    smartphone, but I know that I will not always bother to carry it with me, and
    probably not when I will need it as most. I don't think that solution will cut
    it for me in the long run. I love my smartphone, but I really miss a small build
    in qwerty keyboard.

    : When you consider how long it took for PSION to complete the Series 5
    : and release the 5 MX with the features originally promised in the Series
    : 5, it was already an indication that PSION wasn't putting priority on
    : PDAs anymore.

    While the Series 5 got more functions and a more modern OS core, it also got
    much more bugs, less stability and generally much lower quality. I have never
    had any as stable device as my Psion Series 3 machines (including both later
    Psion and HPC devices).

    To sum it up; looking back in history I (now) think it was a big mistake for
    Psion to abandon the Series 3/Sienna concept. I think they should have continued
    that smaller form factor, and over time just updated it with colour, build in
    cell phone capabilities and enhanced email capabilities (including push email).

    Instead of selling off EPOC to cellular phone makers as Symbian, I think they
    should have done the opposite(!) and brought the phone capability to Psion, and
    kept the control of the OS.

    Now in the hands of Nokia's strong control it's even a worse situation compared
    to when it was a joint venture with equal shares among the different cellular
    phone makers. You will never know what Nokia will do, and the day they start to
    favor Linux over Symbian OS (it's not set in stone, but we have seen a lot of
    indications from Nokia in that direction), it will be lost.

    martin

    --
    Martin Törnsten - http://martin.tornsten.com/

  17. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Martin T wrote in
    news6iuj15smlfqn1k40er6jkk0ktov78ttrl@4ax.com:

    snip
    >
    > Part of the problem why keyboard devices went out of fashion was
    > probably that the keyboards got too good -- as they got better they
    > also got bigger -- and that led to bigger and clumsier devices. In the
    > end they even got so big that they started to compete and replace
    > notebooks. This was a mistake as the technology made the PC based
    > notebooks smaller, thinner, lighter and consume less power. Customers
    > clearly preferred light full desktop Windows machines over Symbian and
    > Windows CE/HPC based notebooks.
    >

    snip

    disagree - I think people would go for a larger, keyboard-based multi-
    function device. If someone made a netBook, with proper colour screen,
    Bluetooth, WiFi, GSM/GPRS - plus proper connectivity and compatibility with
    the PC, people would go for it. Every time I produce my netBook at a
    meeting, people ask questions, they just love the form factor. It's a
    market that someone somewhere could tap and I wish they would.

    The problem for Psion was always the connectivity. Why can Psion Word not
    save to RTF? Big mistake.
    >
    > To sum it up; looking back in history I (now) think it was a big
    > mistake for Psion to abandon the Series 3/Sienna concept. I think they
    > should have continued that smaller form factor, and over time just
    > updated it with colour, build in cell phone capabilities and enhanced
    > email capabilities (including push email).
    >
    > Instead of selling off EPOC to cellular phone makers as Symbian, I
    > think they should have done the opposite(!) and brought the phone
    > capability to Psion, and kept the control of the OS.
    >
    > Now in the hands of Nokia's strong control it's even a worse situation
    > compared to when it was a joint venture with equal shares among the
    > different cellular phone makers. You will never know what Nokia will
    > do, and the day they start to favor Linux over Symbian OS (it's not
    > set in stone, but we have seen a lot of indications from Nokia in that
    > direction), it will be lost.
    >
    > martin
    >

    It's all rather sad - once Nokia goes to Linux, it's the end of the line
    for Psion/Symbian - unless they produce a PDA along the old lines but
    updated.

    Boris

  18. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    In article ,
    Boris Borisovich wrote:

    > disagree - I think people would go for a larger, keyboard-based multi-
    > function device. If someone made a netBook, with proper colour screen,
    > Bluetooth, WiFi, GSM/GPRS - plus proper connectivity and compatibility with
    > the PC, people would go for it. Every time I produce my netBook at a
    > meeting, people ask questions, they just love the form factor. It's a
    > market that someone somewhere could tap and I wish they would.


    Alas, I think the Psion stuff is pretty much dead now, for those of us
    wanting a full scale computer, rather than a phone with some smarts.
    Luckily I have enough spare 5 and 7 to last me for a while. I had great
    hopes for the Symbian approach, but each piece of news makes it seem
    further and further away from a full scale computing device. I find the
    thumb keyboards not worth the effort, and I know I'm not going to carry
    a separate keyboard, so I can't see myself going for any current PDA.

    My last hope now is that when Apple releases its Intel notebooks in a
    few years, one of the models will be NetBook sized. I think my NetBook
    will last a few more years, despite the screen being ever more dim.
    Can't see any potential replacement for the 5. There are already some
    upmarket Windows notebook computers with very close to the right form
    factor to replace a NetBook, so the hardware seems to be there already.
    However I'm not interested in running Windows again.

    --
    http://www.ericlindsay.com

  19. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Eric Lindsay wrote in
    news:NOSPAmar2005-9086B0.12141803102005@freenews.iinet.net.au:


    > Alas, I think the Psion stuff is pretty much dead now, for those of us
    > wanting a full scale computer, rather than a phone with some smarts.
    > Luckily I have enough spare 5 and 7 to last me for a while. I had
    > great hopes for the Symbian approach, but each piece of news makes it
    > seem further and further away from a full scale computing device. I
    > find the thumb keyboards not worth the effort, and I know I'm not
    > going to carry a separate keyboard, so I can't see myself going for
    > any current PDA.
    >
    > My last hope now is that when Apple releases its Intel notebooks in a
    > few years, one of the models will be NetBook sized. I think my
    > NetBook will last a few more years, despite the screen being ever more
    > dim. Can't see any potential replacement for the 5. There are
    > already some upmarket Windows notebook computers with very close to
    > the right form factor to replace a NetBook, so the hardware seems to
    > be there already. However I'm not interested in running Windows
    > again.
    >


    It's really sad - you can get really small Windows devices, but they are so
    expensive, and they are all heavier than the netBook/S7. I have a spares
    myself after raiding ebay, so am looking to future - but the trouble is
    that I am terrified of losing them, or spilling coffee on them. It's
    getting like I'm frightened of taking them out of the house - which is
    actually not the point of the Psion concept.

    Symbian (I have a P910) is neither fish nor fowl: too big for a phone, too
    small for a proper PDA. If the Nokia Communicator concept had chosen the
    5mx/netbook form factor, I would BUY IT.

    For me, Apple is just another M$, except they haven't got market share. If
    and when they do, I'm sure they will behave in exactly the same way. I
    don't like their marketing - too glitzy, too invasive somehow.

    all rather depressing.

    Boris

  20. Re: Palm goes Windows Mobile

    Captain's log. On StarDate Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:14:18 +1000 received comm from
    Eric Lindsay on channel comp.sys.psion.misc:

    : Luckily I have enough spare 5 and 7 to last me for a while. I had great
    : hopes for the Symbian approach, but each piece of news makes it seem
    : further and further away from a full scale computing device. I find the

    I have real doubts of the future of Symbian in any devices.

    : thumb keyboards not worth the effort, and I know I'm not going to carry
    : a separate keyboard, so I can't see myself going for any current PDA.

    I actually prefer the thumb boards as a trade off to get a smaller and more
    portable device. It will actually be more like the original Psion devices (for
    me the golden age with Series 3, 3a and Sienna), not the later ones of lesser
    quality.

    : My last hope now is that when Apple releases its Intel notebooks in a
    [ snip ]
    : However I'm not interested in running Windows again.

    Why wait for Apple???

    It still won't have any Psion or "big palmtop" advantages (low battery, instant
    on, EPOC, PIM applications, backwards software compatibility, etc). You just get
    the negatives with poorer hardware support and less software to run.

    If you for some reasons absolutely don't want Windows (I like it) you can run
    Linux or FreeBSD (which is the core of OS X). Apple makes nice designs, but I
    don't think they will ever make as small and portable machines as the
    revolutionary OQO notebook, the cool Sony Vaio U50, the super small Vulcan
    FlipStart, etc.

    http://www.oqo.com/
    http://www.dynamism.com/u50/
    http://minipc.vulcan.com/

    If I wanted something bigger *I* wouldn't actually want any Psion or Windows CE
    device, but a small Tablet PC. I really love that form factor (!), and it would
    still allow be not to be limited in any software or hardware selection (almost)!

    martin

    --
    Martin Törnsten - http://martin.tornsten.com/

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