VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on - VMS

This is a discussion on VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on - VMS ; This has been tossed around on the VMS SIG listserv for the last couple of days. I wrote: >The boxes on the right, which appear to be RA drives, >DO say "digital". DEC never made an Itanium. > > > ...

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  1. VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on


    This has been tossed around on the VMS SIG listserv for the last
    couple of days.

    I wrote:
    >The boxes on the right, which appear to be RA drives,
    >DO say "digital". DEC never made an Itanium.
    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Aaron Sakovich
    >> >> UNGARD.COM> To
    >> VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG
    >> 10/22/2008 11:07 cc
    >> AM
    >> Subject
    >> What OS is that hardware running?
    >> Please respond to
    >> Open VMS SIG List
    >> >> .ENCOMPASSUS.ORG>
    >> ; Please respond
    >> to
    >> Aaron.Sakovich@SU
    >> NGARD.COM
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Got a keen eye, that can discern model numbers from a low-res photo? Or
    >>can you see features that I may miss (because I've not had one of these
    >>systems in nearly 15 years!)???
    >>
    >>Check out Microsoft's "Computing on Itanium" page:
    >>http://www.microsoft.com/servers/64b.../overview.mspx
    >>
    >>The photo/header itself:
    >>http://www.microsoft.com/library/med...cs/hero/itaniu
    >>m_header.jpg
    >>
    >>Mirrored on my site, in case MS gets wind of this conversation and yanks
    >>it:
    >>http://openvms.hobby-site.com/images...ium_Header.jpg
    >>
    >>Sure looks like VAX 6000's and RA series drives to me... Is this a
    >>subtle nod to the common heritage I64 and WNT have?
    >>
    >>Aaron


  2. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <3842b952-dc67-416f-8cc6-f1bd676b57f2@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
    etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk writes:
    > On 23 Oct, 13:41, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    > Koehler) wrote:
    >> * *This has been tossed around on the VMS SIG listserv for the last
    >> * *couple of days.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> I wrote:
    >> >The boxes on the right, which appear to be RA drives,
    >> >DO say "digital". *DEC never made an Itanium.

    >>
    >> >> * * * * * * Aaron Sakovich * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    >> >> * * * * * * >> >> * * * * * * UNGARD.COM> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *To
    >> >> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * VMS-...@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG * *
    >> >> * * * * * * 10/22/2008 11:07 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * cc
    >> >> * * * * * * AM * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    >> >> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Subject
    >> >> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * What OS is that hardware running? *
    >> >> * * * * * * Please respond to * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    >> >> * * * * * * Open VMS SIG List * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    >> >> * * * * * * >> >> * * * * * * .ENCOMPASSUS.ORG> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    >> >> * * * * * * ; Please respond * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    >> >> * * * * * * * * * *to * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    >> >> * * * * * * Aaron.Sakovich@SU * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    >> >> * * * * * * * * NGARD.COM * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    >>
    >> >>Got a keen eye, that can discern model numbers from a low-res photo? *Or
    >> >>can you see features that I may miss (because I've not had one of these
    >> >>systems in nearly 15 years!)???

    >>
    >> >>Check out Microsoft's "Computing on Itanium" page:
    >> >>http://www.microsoft.com/servers/64b.../overview.mspx

    >>
    >> >>The photo/header itself:
    >> >>http://www.microsoft.com/library/med...cs/hero/itaniu
    >> >>m_header.jpg

    >>
    >> >>Mirrored on my site, in case MS gets wind of this conversation and yanks
    >> >>it:
    >> >>http://openvms.hobby-site.com/images...ium_Header.jpg

    >>
    >> >>Sure looks like VAX 6000's and RA series drives to me... *Is this a
    >> >>subtle nod to the common heritage I64 and WNT have?

    >>
    >> >>Aaron- Hide quoted text -

    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > What do you say we should all rate the page at '5' purely for the
    > picture?


    People place way too much value on pictures they see. Artwork is
    frequently just what was available at the time and has no bearing
    on reality. Or have we already forgotten the Compaq OpenVMS distro
    with all the Sun Workstations so prominently displayed on the front
    of the box?

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  3. RE: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on



    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]
    > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:41 AM
    > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > Subject: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on
    >
    >
    > This has been tossed around on the VMS SIG listserv for the last
    > couple of days.
    >
    > I wrote:
    > >The boxes on the right, which appear to be RA drives,
    > >DO say "digital". DEC never made an Itanium.
    > >
    > >


    Here is their new information architecture for the future:
    http://tinyurl.com/5q2hut which translates to:
    http://research.microsoft.com/users/...ine/1981-4.htm

    :-)



    Regards

    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-254-8911
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.




  4. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article ,
    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    >
    > This has been tossed around on the VMS SIG listserv for the last
    > couple of days.
    >
    > I wrote:
    >>The boxes on the right, which appear to be RA drives,
    >>DO say "digital". DEC never made an Itanium.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Aaron Sakovich
    >>> >>> UNGARD.COM> To
    >>> VMS-SIG@LISTSERV.ENCOMPASSUS.ORG
    >>> 10/22/2008 11:07 cc
    >>> AM
    >>> Subject
    >>> What OS is that hardware running?
    >>> Please respond to
    >>> Open VMS SIG List
    >>> >>> .ENCOMPASSUS.ORG>
    >>> ; Please respond
    >>> to
    >>> Aaron.Sakovich@SU
    >>> NGARD.COM
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Got a keen eye, that can discern model numbers from a low-res photo? Or
    >>>can you see features that I may miss (because I've not had one of these
    >>>systems in nearly 15 years!)???
    >>>
    >>>Check out Microsoft's "Computing on Itanium" page:
    >>>http://www.microsoft.com/servers/64b.../overview.mspx
    >>>
    >>>The photo/header itself:
    >>>http://www.microsoft.com/library/med...cs/hero/itaniu
    >>>m_header.jpg
    >>>
    >>>Mirrored on my site, in case MS gets wind of this conversation and yanks
    >>>it:
    >>>http://openvms.hobby-site.com/images...ium_Header.jpg


    I should have caught this in the first place. I think it unlikely
    that this will disappear. This picture has been therre for more than
    a year and we actually discussed it here back in June of 2007.

    >>>
    >>>Sure looks like VAX 6000's and RA series drives to me... Is this a
    >>>subtle nod to the common heritage I64 and WNT have?


    Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    of. Of course, I also doubt the hardware pictured has anything at all
    to do with MS.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  5. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:

    > on reality. Or have we already forgotten the Compaq OpenVMS distro
    > with all the Sun Workstations so prominently displayed on the front
    > of the box?



    Or the Digital ad showing VT420 terminals with colour graphics displayed
    on their screens ?

  6. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:

    > Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    > around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    > who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    > of.


    Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    produced.

    But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what
    a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are
    some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-)

    If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing
    15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-)


  7. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >
    >> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    >> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    >> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    >> of.

    >
    >Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    >produced.
    >
    >But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what
    >a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are
    >some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-)


    I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't
    be so sure they're not blade enclosures.


    >If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing
    >15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-)


    ....and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  8. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    JF Mezei writes:

    > Bill Gunshannon wrote:


    >> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    >> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    >> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    >> of.


    > Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    > produced.


    Hey! There's an ex-MS employee (as in, that's where we hired him away from)
    currently working on systems in the collection for which I'm responsible, who
    has just finished up putting our 11/785's into running condition, and who has
    4000 and 6000 systems in his own private collection. He's less than 10 years
    younger than I, and trust me, is old enough to know RA drives first hand.

    --
    Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."
    news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless

  9. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>
    >>> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    >>> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    >>> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    >>> of.

    >> Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    >> produced.
    >>
    >> But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what
    >> a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are
    >> some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-)

    >
    > I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't
    > be so sure they're not blade enclosures.
    >
    >
    >> If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing
    >> 15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-)

    >
    > ...and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P
    >


    ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .

  10. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >
    > ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    > double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    > motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    > could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    > RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .


    Down the hall on someone's door is a picture of a 1MB IBM drive being
    offloaded from a PanAm cargo plane by a forklift.

    It's roughly the size of an 11/750.


  11. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    Bob Koehler wrote:
    > In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    >> double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    >> motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    >> could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    >> RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .

    >
    > Down the hall on someone's door is a picture of a 1MB IBM drive being
    > offloaded from a PanAm cargo plane by a forklift.
    >
    > It's roughly the size of an 11/750.
    >


    The one I saw was more like the size of an 11/780; five to six feet high
    and six or seven feet wide!

  12. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article ,
    "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >> In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    >>>> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    >>>> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    >>>> of.
    >>> Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    >>> produced.
    >>>
    >>> But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what
    >>> a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are
    >>> some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-)

    >>
    >> I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't
    >> be so sure they're not blade enclosures.
    >>
    >>
    >>> If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing
    >>> 15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-)

    >>
    >> ...and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P
    >>

    >
    > ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    > double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    > motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    > could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    > RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .


    My first experience with a head-crash was an IBM disk on a 4331 at
    Ft. Ben in Indianapolis. I found it interesting that the first tool
    brought in by the CE was a large shop vac that he used to collect all
    that was left of the disks guts. Amazing how much damage those 3HP
    motors can do. We actually heard it from the terminal lab down the
    hall. The noise accompanied the system crash and a lot of moaning about
    lost work. :-)

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  13. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <+o3pndMYLgSL@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    > In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >>
    >> ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    >> double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    >> motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    >> could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    >> RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .

    >
    > Down the hall on someone's door is a picture of a 1MB IBM drive being
    > offloaded from a PanAm cargo plane by a forklift.
    >
    > It's roughly the size of an 11/750.


    Yes, but was it a disk drive or a drum drive?

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  14. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > In article ,
    > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >>> In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    >>>>> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    >>>>> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    >>>>> of.
    >>>> Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    >>>> produced.
    >>>>
    >>>> But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what
    >>>> a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are
    >>>> some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-)
    >>> I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't
    >>> be so sure they're not blade enclosures.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing
    >>>> 15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-)
    >>> ...and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P
    >>>

    >> ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    >> double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    >> motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    >> could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    >> RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .

    >
    > My first experience with a head-crash was an IBM disk on a 4331 at
    > Ft. Ben in Indianapolis. I found it interesting that the first tool
    > brought in by the CE was a large shop vac that he used to collect all
    > that was left of the disks guts. Amazing how much damage those 3HP
    > motors can do. We actually heard it from the terminal lab down the
    > hall. The noise accompanied the system crash and a lot of moaning about
    > lost work. :-)
    >
    > bill
    >


    I'll never forget my first head-crash! It was an IBM 2311. For those
    to young to have ever seen one, it was a "washing machine" with a top
    loading disk pack of 6-8 platters. I think it was a whole 7.5 megabytes!

    The console started logging errors and there was this high pitched
    screeching. . . .

    There was a story then current about an operator who tried to deal with
    a head crash by mounting the crashed pack on another drive. . . . ISTR
    that the total carnage was something like seven drives and seven disk
    packs destroyed!

  15. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    > [...snip...]
    > I'll never forget my first head-crash! It was an IBM 2311. For those
    > to young to have ever seen one, it was a "washing machine" with a top
    > loading disk pack of 6-8 platters. I think it was a whole 7.5 megabytes!
    >
    > The console started logging errors and there was this high pitched
    > screeching. . . .


    Oh, and don't forget the *smell* those head-crashes used to make !

  16. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <6me0agFfv20iU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >In article ,
    > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >>> In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    >>>>> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    >>>>> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    >>>>> of.
    >>>> Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    >>>> produced.
    >>>>
    >>>> But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what
    >>>> a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are
    >>>> some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-)
    >>>
    >>> I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't
    >>> be so sure they're not blade enclosures.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing
    >>>> 15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-)
    >>>
    >>> ...and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P
    >>>

    >>
    >> ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    >> double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    >> motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    >> could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    >> RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .

    >
    >My first experience with a head-crash was an IBM disk on a 4331 at
    >Ft. Ben in Indianapolis. I found it interesting that the first tool
    >brought in by the CE was a large shop vac that he used to collect all
    >that was left of the disks guts. Amazing how much damage those 3HP
    >motors can do. We actually heard it from the terminal lab down the
    >hall. The noise accompanied the system crash and a lot of moaning about
    >lost work. :-)


    Messy! I remember a head crash on an RM-05 while I was in the computer
    room. It really set the thing off balance. It was "dancing" about the
    floor making noises like a washing machine does when a load is off-bal-
    ance. That pack was complete history as was the RM-05. It wasn't worth
    fixing and I really don't even know why it was maintained on contract at
    that time as we had newer quality technology like RA-81/82s!

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  17. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <00A8194B.C011BFCF@sendspamhere.org>,
    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    > In article <6me0agFfv20iU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>In article ,
    >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >>>> In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    >>>>>> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    >>>>>> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    >>>>>> of.
    >>>>> Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    >>>>> produced.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what
    >>>>> a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are
    >>>>> some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-)
    >>>>
    >>>> I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't
    >>>> be so sure they're not blade enclosures.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing
    >>>>> 15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-)
    >>>>
    >>>> ...and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    >>> double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    >>> motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    >>> could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    >>> RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .

    >>
    >>My first experience with a head-crash was an IBM disk on a 4331 at
    >>Ft. Ben in Indianapolis. I found it interesting that the first tool
    >>brought in by the CE was a large shop vac that he used to collect all
    >>that was left of the disks guts. Amazing how much damage those 3HP
    >>motors can do. We actually heard it from the terminal lab down the
    >>hall. The noise accompanied the system crash and a lot of moaning about
    >>lost work. :-)

    >
    > Messy! I remember a head crash on an RM-05 while I was in the computer
    > room. It really set the thing off balance. It was "dancing" about the
    > floor making noises like a washing machine does when a load is off-bal-
    > ance. That pack was complete history as was the RM-05. It wasn't worth
    > fixing and I really don't even know why it was maintained on contract at
    > that time as we had newer quality technology like RA-81/82s!


    There are people still using them, apparently. When I got my last batch
    of RA disks I took them from a shop that had just reited them in favor
    of SCSI. That was on PDP-11's. U sed them on PDP-11's and VAXen until
    I was able to replace them with, you guessed it, SCSI. Someone came and
    took them off my hands and I assume most of them survived the trip and
    are still running today. They may be old, small and power hungry, but
    they were also very well built. (I still use a number of RL disks, even
    now!!)

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  18. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > In article <6me0agFfv20iU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >> In article ,
    >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >>>> In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    >>>>>> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    >>>>>> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    >>>>>> of.
    >>>>> Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    >>>>> produced.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what
    >>>>> a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are
    >>>>> some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-)
    >>>> I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't
    >>>> be so sure they're not blade enclosures.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing
    >>>>> 15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-)
    >>>> ...and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P
    >>>>
    >>> ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    >>> double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    >>> motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    >>> could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    >>> RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .

    >> My first experience with a head-crash was an IBM disk on a 4331 at
    >> Ft. Ben in Indianapolis. I found it interesting that the first tool
    >> brought in by the CE was a large shop vac that he used to collect all
    >> that was left of the disks guts. Amazing how much damage those 3HP
    >> motors can do. We actually heard it from the terminal lab down the
    >> hall. The noise accompanied the system crash and a lot of moaning about
    >> lost work. :-)

    >
    > Messy! I remember a head crash on an RM-05 while I was in the computer
    > room. It really set the thing off balance. It was "dancing" about the
    > floor making noises like a washing machine does when a load is off-bal-
    > ance. That pack was complete history as was the RM-05. It wasn't worth
    > fixing and I really don't even know why it was maintained on contract at
    > that time as we had newer quality technology like RA-81/82s!
    >


    Sometimes the PTB just keep marching in the footsteps of those ahead of
    them. . . .

    I've audited more than one service contract renewal that listed
    equipment we no longer had, or had NEVER had. My predecessors had
    obviously not been "minding the store"! If you don't know what you have
    and where it is, you can REALLY get ripped off!!



  19. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    >
    > I'll never forget my first head-crash! It was an IBM 2311. For those to
    > young to have ever seen one, it was a "washing machine" with a top loading
    > disk pack of 6-8 platters. I think it was a whole 7.5 megabytes!
    >
    > The console started logging errors and there was this high pitched
    > screeching. . . .
    >
    > There was a story then current about an operator who tried to deal with a
    > head crash by mounting the crashed pack on another drive. . . . ISTR that
    > the total carnage was something like seven drives and seven disk packs
    > destroyed!


    One of my operators managed to go through 5 cdc 400mb drives (Long time ago
    so I might not be quite accurate with the make/size, but size of a washing
    machine), connected to a pair of Computervision Cadds 4 systems. When he
    tried to install/format a new disc pack

    When I conducted the inquest, you could see the lowest platter on the first
    pack was bent by about 1/2". As if the pack had been dropped. It appeared he
    put it in the first system and crashed it, his first crash and had not
    realised, put it in the second drive and crashed that. Decided it must be
    the system at fault and moved the damaged pack to the second system and
    crash.

    So having decided it must be the pack. He then moved the two packs he had
    installed into the first systems crashed drives into the second systems
    remaining last two drives. I then get a phone call at home to tell me he
    was having problems. err yes you have a problem.

    To be honest, he was installing 2 brand new packs. It had not occurred to
    anyone when we wrote his instructions to visually check a pack for damage.
    We attempted to recover the costs from the pack supplier who argued the
    damage was as a result of installing the pack in a crashed drive etc. total
    of 5 drives and about 9 disc packs after he had installed original
    packs/backups and new in the crashed drives

    My company was not happy that we had about 30 cad operators idle for a few
    days whilst the drives were rebuilt.


    Now for another lesson from them systems. Each had 1/2" tape drives and we
    had a problem reading tapes from 1 to the other, the technician decided the
    problem was a result of an alignment/speed problem and reset the heads/motor
    etc. We then discovered that we were now unable to read archives tapes of
    our cad parts and the tech was unable to undo his realignment.

    Talking of alignment, when was the last time anyone used a floppy alignment
    disc/scope?



  20. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <6me5qcFgf424U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >In article <00A8194B.C011BFCF@sendspamhere.org>,
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >> In article <6me0agFfv20iU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>In article ,
    >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >>>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >>>>> In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >>>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating
    >>>>>>> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person
    >>>>>>> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture
    >>>>>>> of.
    >>>>>> Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being
    >>>>>> produced.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what
    >>>>>> a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are
    >>>>>> some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't
    >>>>> be so sure they're not blade enclosures.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing
    >>>>>> 15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ...and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a
    >>>> double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric
    >>>> motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I
    >>>> could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an
    >>>> RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . .
    >>>
    >>>My first experience with a head-crash was an IBM disk on a 4331 at
    >>>Ft. Ben in Indianapolis. I found it interesting that the first tool
    >>>brought in by the CE was a large shop vac that he used to collect all
    >>>that was left of the disks guts. Amazing how much damage those 3HP
    >>>motors can do. We actually heard it from the terminal lab down the
    >>>hall. The noise accompanied the system crash and a lot of moaning about
    >>>lost work. :-)

    >>
    >> Messy! I remember a head crash on an RM-05 while I was in the computer
    >> room. It really set the thing off balance. It was "dancing" about the
    >> floor making noises like a washing machine does when a load is off-bal-
    >> ance. That pack was complete history as was the RM-05. It wasn't worth
    >> fixing and I really don't even know why it was maintained on contract at
    >> that time as we had newer quality technology like RA-81/82s!

    >
    >There are people still using them, apparently. When I got my last batch
    >of RA disks I took them from a shop that had just reited them in favor
    >of SCSI. That was on PDP-11's. U sed them on PDP-11's and VAXen until
    >I was able to replace them with, you guessed it, SCSI. Someone came and
    >took them off my hands and I assume most of them survived the trip and
    >are still running today. They may be old, small and power hungry, but
    >they were also very well built. (I still use a number of RL disks, even
    >now!!)


    The RAs that failed the most were the ones on the PDP in the clean room
    of the ASIC facility. I hated donning the polyester "zoot" suit and pas-
    sing through the "fly paper" air lock to have to replace them. They've
    left a lasting impression on me because of that ritual.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

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