VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on - VMS

This is a discussion on VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on - VMS ; In article , "Tim Wilkinson" writes: >> >> I'll never forget my first head-crash! It was an IBM 2311. For those to >> young to have ever seen one, it was a "washing machine" with a top loading >> disk ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 33 of 33

Thread: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

  1. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article ,
    "Tim Wilkinson" writes:
    >>
    >> I'll never forget my first head-crash! It was an IBM 2311. For those to
    >> young to have ever seen one, it was a "washing machine" with a top loading
    >> disk pack of 6-8 platters. I think it was a whole 7.5 megabytes!
    >>
    >> The console started logging errors and there was this high pitched
    >> screeching. . . .
    >>
    >> There was a story then current about an operator who tried to deal with a
    >> head crash by mounting the crashed pack on another drive. . . . ISTR that
    >> the total carnage was something like seven drives and seven disk packs
    >> destroyed!

    >
    > One of my operators managed to go through 5 cdc 400mb drives (Long time ago
    > so I might not be quite accurate with the make/size, but size of a washing
    > machine), connected to a pair of Computervision Cadds 4 systems. When he
    > tried to install/format a new disc pack
    >
    > When I conducted the inquest, you could see the lowest platter on the first
    > pack was bent by about 1/2". As if the pack had been dropped. It appeared he
    > put it in the first system and crashed it, his first crash and had not
    > realised, put it in the second drive and crashed that. Decided it must be
    > the system at fault and moved the damaged pack to the second system and
    > crash.
    >
    > So having decided it must be the pack. He then moved the two packs he had
    > installed into the first systems crashed drives into the second systems
    > remaining last two drives. I then get a phone call at home to tell me he
    > was having problems. err yes you have a problem.
    >
    > To be honest, he was installing 2 brand new packs. It had not occurred to
    > anyone when we wrote his instructions to visually check a pack for damage.
    > We attempted to recover the costs from the pack supplier who argued the
    > damage was as a result of installing the pack in a crashed drive etc. total
    > of 5 drives and about 9 disc packs after he had installed original
    > packs/backups and new in the crashed drives
    >
    > My company was not happy that we had about 30 cad operators idle for a few
    > days whilst the drives were rebuilt.
    >
    >
    > Now for another lesson from them systems. Each had 1/2" tape drives and we
    > had a problem reading tapes from 1 to the other, the technician decided the
    > problem was a result of an alignment/speed problem and reset the heads/motor
    > etc. We then discovered that we were now unable to read archives tapes of
    > our cad parts and the tech was unable to undo his realignment.
    >
    > Talking of alignment, when was the last time anyone used a floppy alignment
    > disc/scope?


    I don't remember the last time used one, but I do still have them. For
    8" disk drives. :-)

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  2. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on


    "Tim Wilkinson" wrote in message
    news:qslMk.76951$E41.47625@text.news.virginmedia.c om...

    > Now for another lesson from them systems. Each had 1/2" tape drives and we had a problem
    > reading tapes from 1 to the other, the technician decided the problem was a result of an
    > alignment/speed problem and reset the heads/motor etc. We then discovered that we were
    > now unable to read archives tapes of our cad parts and the tech was unable to undo his
    > realignment.


    I believe the Spartans invented this technique: by having drive shafts of slightly
    varying diameters, they were able to deliver securely IBM 7-track tapes.



  3. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on


    "Tim Wilkinson" wrote in message
    news:qslMk.76951$E41.47625@text.news.virginmedia.c om...
    > >
    >> I'll never forget my first head-crash! It was an IBM 2311. For those to
    >> young to have ever seen one, it was a "washing machine" with a top
    >> loading disk pack of 6-8 platters. I think it was a whole 7.5
    >> megabytes!
    >>
    >> The console started logging errors and there was this high pitched
    >> screeching. . . .
    >>
    >> There was a story then current about an operator who tried to deal with a
    >> head crash by mounting the crashed pack on another drive. . . . ISTR
    >> that the total carnage was something like seven drives and seven disk
    >> packs destroyed!

    >
    > One of my operators managed to go through 5 cdc 400mb drives (Long time
    > ago so I might not be quite accurate with the make/size, but size of a
    > washing machine), connected to a pair of Computervision Cadds 4 systems.
    > When he tried to install/format a new disc pack
    >
    > When I conducted the inquest, you could see the lowest platter on the
    > first pack was bent by about 1/2". As if the pack had been dropped. It
    > appeared he put it in the first system and crashed it, his first crash and
    > had not realised, put it in the second drive and crashed that. Decided it
    > must be the system at fault and moved the damaged pack to the second
    > system and crash.
    >
    > So having decided it must be the pack. He then moved the two packs he had
    > installed into the first systems crashed drives into the second systems
    > remaining last two drives. I then get a phone call at home to tell me he
    > was having problems. err yes you have a problem.
    >
    > To be honest, he was installing 2 brand new packs. It had not occurred to
    > anyone when we wrote his instructions to visually check a pack for damage.
    > We attempted to recover the costs from the pack supplier who argued the
    > damage was as a result of installing the pack in a crashed drive etc.
    > total of 5 drives and about 9 disc packs after he had installed original
    > packs/backups and new in the crashed drives
    >
    > My company was not happy that we had about 30 cad operators idle for a few
    > days whilst the drives were rebuilt.
    >
    >
    > Now for another lesson from them systems. Each had 1/2" tape drives and we
    > had a problem reading tapes from 1 to the other, the technician decided
    > the problem was a result of an alignment/speed problem and reset the
    > heads/motor etc. We then discovered that we were now unable to read
    > archives tapes of our cad parts and the tech was unable to undo his
    > realignment.
    >
    > Talking of alignment, when was the last time anyone used a floppy
    > alignment disc/scope?
    >


    Still on discs, my first VAX was an 11/750 we were given by a sister
    company, but had to source new drives. My boss went for a System Industries
    solution and Fujitsu "Super Eagles". Only problem was these new drives were
    very prone to failure, I think it was eventually attributed to bearings
    leaking. Well our computer room was on the second floor. No lifts and
    carrying 6 drives up 4 flights of stairs, then the replaced ones back down,
    multiply by at least 5 for the amount of swap outs we must have had and it
    is no wonder I suffer back problems 25 years later.



  4. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    Tim Wilkinson wrote:
    >> I'll never forget my first head-crash! It was an IBM 2311. For those to
    >> young to have ever seen one, it was a "washing machine" with a top loading
    >> disk pack of 6-8 platters. I think it was a whole 7.5 megabytes!
    >>
    >> The console started logging errors and there was this high pitched
    >> screeching. . . .
    >>
    >> There was a story then current about an operator who tried to deal with a
    >> head crash by mounting the crashed pack on another drive. . . . ISTR that
    >> the total carnage was something like seven drives and seven disk packs
    >> destroyed!

    >
    > One of my operators managed to go through 5 cdc 400mb drives (Long time ago
    > so I might not be quite accurate with the make/size, but size of a washing
    > machine), connected to a pair of Computervision Cadds 4 systems. When he
    > tried to install/format a new disc pack
    >
    > When I conducted the inquest, you could see the lowest platter on the first
    > pack was bent by about 1/2". As if the pack had been dropped. It appeared he
    > put it in the first system and crashed it, his first crash and had not
    > realised, put it in the second drive and crashed that. Decided it must be
    > the system at fault and moved the damaged pack to the second system and
    > crash.
    >
    > So having decided it must be the pack. He then moved the two packs he had
    > installed into the first systems crashed drives into the second systems
    > remaining last two drives. I then get a phone call at home to tell me he
    > was having problems. err yes you have a problem.
    >
    > To be honest, he was installing 2 brand new packs. It had not occurred to
    > anyone when we wrote his instructions to visually check a pack for damage.
    > We attempted to recover the costs from the pack supplier who argued the
    > damage was as a result of installing the pack in a crashed drive etc. total
    > of 5 drives and about 9 disc packs after he had installed original
    > packs/backups and new in the crashed drives
    >
    > My company was not happy that we had about 30 cad operators idle for a few
    > days whilst the drives were rebuilt.
    >
    >
    > Now for another lesson from them systems. Each had 1/2" tape drives and we
    > had a problem reading tapes from 1 to the other, the technician decided the
    > problem was a result of an alignment/speed problem and reset the heads/motor
    > etc. We then discovered that we were now unable to read archives tapes of
    > our cad parts and the tech was unable to undo his realignment.
    >
    > Talking of alignment, when was the last time anyone used a floppy alignment
    > disc/scope?
    >
    >


    I've NEVER used or even seen one! I don't use floppys that much for
    anything any longer. I still have a couple of 5" floppy drives
    somewhere. . . . Someday they'll be valuable antiques!

  5. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <6me0c6Ffv20iU3@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >
    > Yes, but was it a disk drive or a drum drive?


    DASD.


  6. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <00A8194B.C011BFCF@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >
    > Messy! I remember a head crash on an RM-05 while I was in the computer
    > room. It really set the thing off balance. It was "dancing" about the
    > floor making noises like a washing machine does when a load is off-bal-
    > ance. That pack was complete history as was the RM-05. It wasn't worth
    > fixing and I really don't even know why it was maintained on contract at
    > that time as we had newer quality technology like RA-81/82s!


    The fellows who maintained our 11/780s and RP06s on a former job
    had come from a site with someone else's technology.

    They told stories of connector leaks on hydraulically actuated
    disk head arms. Very high pressure.


  7. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <6me5qcFgf424U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >
    > There are people still using them, apparently.


    Used RA90s make very good replacements for used RA60 and RA80
    series. Cheap, reliable, and plug compatable.


  8. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article ,
    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    > In article <6me0c6Ffv20iU3@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>
    >> Yes, but was it a disk drive or a drum drive?

    >
    > DASD.


    Sorry, been out of the IBM world for way too long. But, I think that
    could refer to either as well. Wasn't that just Direct Access Storage
    Device?

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  9. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    >In article <6me0c6Ffv20iU3@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>
    >> Yes, but was it a disk drive or a drum drive?

    >
    > DASD.


    ROTFLMFAO!
    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  10. RE: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Tim Wilkinson [mailto:tjw@.twsoft.co.uk]
    > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:03 AM
    > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > Subject: Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on
    >
    > >


    [snip..]

    >
    > Now for another lesson from them systems. Each had 1/2" tape drives and
    > we
    > had a problem reading tapes from 1 to the other, the technician decided
    > the
    > problem was a result of an alignment/speed problem and reset the
    > heads/motor
    > etc. We then discovered that we were now unable to read archives tapes
    > of
    > our cad parts and the tech was unable to undo his realignment.
    >
    > Talking of alignment, when was the last time anyone used a floppy
    > alignment
    > disc/scope?
    >


    Or Magna-see graphite particles on a tape to look for alignment
    issues?

    :-)

    There have been cases where a head had to be manually un-aligned
    due to tapes being created with out of alignment heads.


    Regards

    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-254-8911
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.




  11. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    In article <00A81973.9E4A6820@sendspamhere.org>,
    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    > In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    >>In article <6me0c6Ffv20iU3@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>
    >>> Yes, but was it a disk drive or a drum drive?

    >>
    >> DASD.

    >
    > ROTFLMFAO!


    Why? I don't see anything funny about this?

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  12. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message
    news:XeidnUFe4uNdf5zUnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
    >
    > I've audited more than one service contract renewal that listed equipment
    > we no longer had, or had NEVER had. My predecessors had obviously not
    > been "minding the store"! If you don't know what you have and where it
    > is, you can REALLY get ripped off!!
    >
    >


    It made me look great when within a month of being hired, I had saved the
    company the equivalent of my salary just by knowing what the equipment was
    and more imnportantly was not.... They had equipment on contract that had
    been removed more than 10 years before. The most obvious was the Q-bus
    controller associated with the AlphaServer 4100


  13. Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on

    Steven Underwood wrote:
    > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message
    > news:XeidnUFe4uNdf5zUnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
    >>
    >> I've audited more than one service contract renewal that listed
    >> equipment we no longer had, or had NEVER had. My predecessors had
    >> obviously not been "minding the store"! If you don't know what you
    >> have and where it is, you can REALLY get ripped off!!
    >>
    >>

    >
    > It made me look great when within a month of being hired, I had saved
    > the company the equivalent of my salary just by knowing what the
    > equipment was and more imnportantly was not.... They had equipment on
    > contract that had been removed more than 10 years before. The most
    > obvious was the Q-bus controller associated with the AlphaServer 4100


    I made it a practice to take a physical inventory of the hardware and to
    create a database that had: Manufacturer, Model, Serial Number,
    Description, System used with, physical location, line number on service
    contract and maybe a few other fields that I've forgotten.

    This told me what I had on contract and enabled me get the contract
    coverage we needed for each piece of equipment. When the auditors came
    around, and wanted to know where some piece of equipment was, I could
    usually find it in my database and lead them to it.






+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2