Who is left at VMS engineering ? - VMS

This is a discussion on Who is left at VMS engineering ? - VMS ; Brad Hamilton wrote: > OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup > access, and here I am, still posting... When Bell Canada did the same some years ago, the NNTP service remained available ...

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Thread: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

  1. Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net

    Brad Hamilton wrote:

    > OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup
    > access, and here I am, still posting...


    When Bell Canada did the same some years ago, the NNTP service remained
    available for a number of months afterwards. The civil servant/paper
    pushers at Bell may have made some decision, but implementing it
    required someone actually find which box on a rack provided NNTP service
    :-) :-) ;-)

    Seriously, it also has to do with commercial customers who may depend on
    that service and Comcast has to find ways to continue to provide this
    service to them while blocking retail customer's IPs.

  2. Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net

    On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:24:41 -0700, JF Mezei
    wrote:

    > Brad Hamilton wrote:
    >
    >> OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup
    >> access, and here I am, still posting...

    >
    > When Bell Canada did the same some years ago, the NNTP service remained
    > available for a number of months afterwards. The civil servant/paper
    > pushers at Bell may have made some decision, but implementing it
    > required someone actually find which box on a rack provided NNTP service
    > :-) :-) ;-)
    >
    > Seriously, it also has to do with commercial customers who may depend on
    > that service and Comcast has to find ways to continue to provide this
    > service to them while blocking retail customer's IPs.


    News.Individual.NET costs 10€/annum latency immediate

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  3. Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net

    Tom Linden wrote:
    > On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:24:41 -0700, JF Mezei
    > wrote:
    >> Brad Hamilton wrote:
    >>> OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup
    >>> access, and here I am, still posting...

    >>
    >> When Bell Canada did the same some years ago, the NNTP service remained
    >> available for a number of months afterwards. The civil servant/paper
    >> pushers at Bell may have made some decision, but implementing it
    >> required someone actually find which box on a rack provided NNTP service
    >> :-) :-) ;-)
    >>
    >> Seriously, it also has to do with commercial customers who may depend on
    >> that service and Comcast has to find ways to continue to provide this
    >> service to them while blocking retail customer's IPs.

    >
    > News.Individual.NET costs 10€/annum latency immediate


    http://news.aioe.org/ is free - it does have a few restrictions,
    but my guess is that many can live with those.

    Arne

  4. Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net

    In article <49050804$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >Tom Linden wrote:
    >> On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:24:41 -0700, JF Mezei
    >> wrote:
    >>> Brad Hamilton wrote:
    >>>> OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup
    >>>> access, and here I am, still posting...

    [...]
    >>> Seriously, it also has to do with commercial customers who may depend on
    >>> that service and Comcast has to find ways to continue to provide this
    >>> service to them while blocking retail customer's IPs.

    >>
    >> News.Individual.NET costs 10€/annum latency immediate

    >
    >http://news.aioe.org/ is free - it does have a few restrictions,
    >but my guess is that many can live with those.


    Both good backup choices - and thanks for the advice. I've prepared myself to
    use either one, if Comcast's NG feed goes away.

  5. Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net


    > And mine said 25-October - go figure...
    >
    > Well, we'll look for a cut-off at the 28-October date; until then, happy
    > posting...
    >


    I just now tried to read this group on Comcast, but was denied access
    to the server. and, they never said anything about this (in the printed
    material which comes with the monthly bill).


  6. Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net

    Brendan Welch wrote:

    > I just now tried to read this group on Comcast, but was denied access
    > to the server. and, they never said anything about this (in the printed
    > material which comes with the monthly bill).


    For the major US ISPs, the removal of NNTP service was a sacrificial
    lamb to show to the new york state attorney that they were doing
    something to fight child pornography. Since ISPs think that very few
    people use NNTP, they can pull the plug with minimal complaints and then
    show that they have taken a major step.

    And the new york state demand that they do something was the perfect
    opportunity to pull the plug on those servers to save on costs. (instead
    of just blocking submissions to binary newsgroups that contain illegal
    material which requires more system management man/hours).

  7. Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net

    In article , Brendan Welch wrote:
    >
    >> And mine said 25-October - go figure...
    >>
    >> Well, we'll look for a cut-off at the 28-October date; until then, happy
    >> posting...
    >>

    >
    >I just now tried to read this group on Comcast, but was denied access
    >to the server. and, they never said anything about this (in the printed
    >material which comes with the monthly bill).


    Me and my big mouth...

    I'm now posting from aioe - seems to be working OK so far...

  8. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?


    "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    news:48ffae65$0$9662$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...


    > BTW, aren't you technically an Intel employee ? Or are you still
    > officially VMS engineering and paid by HP ?
    >


    I've never been an Intel employee. I've had 3 badges: Digital, Compaq, HP
    all doing 100% OpenVMS compilers. At one point in my career, I had the same
    cubicle for 17 years. I just hit my 25th anniversary back in August.

    John



  9. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    In article , "John Reagan" writes:
    >
    >"JF Mezei" wrote in message
    >news:48ffae65$0$9662$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
    >
    >
    >> BTW, aren't you technically an Intel employee ? Or are you still
    >> officially VMS engineering and paid by HP ?
    >>

    >
    >I've never been an Intel employee. I've had 3 badges: Digital, Compaq, HP
    >all doing 100% OpenVMS compilers. At one point in my career, I had the same
    >cubicle for 17 years. I just hit my 25th anniversary back in August.


    Congrats on 25 years John.

    Are you sure that was a cubicle and not a padded cell?


    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  10. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    IanMiller wrote:
    > On Oct 21, 9:14 pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    >> I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one
    >> by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone
    >> does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he
    >> is no longer aboard.
    >>
    >> Anyone else having similar feelings ?
    >>
    >> Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no
    >> longer participating here ?

    >
    >
    > Perhaps more people have given up due to the poor signal to noise
    > ratio.


    IMO the SNR has improved over the last year, or more (with one or two
    exceptions) but perhaps only because the noise power has decreased more
    quickly than the signal. I'd say ITRC is getting the lion's share of
    new technical queries and (new?) VMS participation. Pity it's closed,
    skunkworks and unrepresentative (and *that* interface). It's also likely
    that c.o.v. has already reached a critical threshold.

  11. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    On 6 Nov, 08:23, Mark Daniel wrote:
    > IanMiller wrote:
    > > On Oct 21, 9:14 pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    > >> I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one
    > >> by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone
    > >> does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he
    > >> is no longer aboard.

    >
    > >> Anyone else having similar feelings ?

    >
    > >> Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no
    > >> longer participating here ?

    >
    > > Perhaps more people have given up due to the poor signal to noise
    > > ratio.

    >
    > IMO the SNR has improved over the last year, or more (with one or two
    > exceptions) but perhaps only because the noise power has decreased more
    > quickly than the signal. *I'd say ITRC is getting the lion's share of
    > new technical queries and (new?) VMS participation. *Pity it's closed,
    > skunkworks and unrepresentative (and *that* interface). It's also likely
    > that c.o.v. has already reached a critical threshold.


    Closed?
    skunkworks - perhaps
    unrepresentative?


  12. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    IanMiller wrote:
    > On 6 Nov, 08:23, Mark Daniel wrote:
    >> IanMiller wrote:
    >>> On Oct 21, 9:14 pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    >>>> I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one
    >>>> by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone
    >>>> does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he
    >>>> is no longer aboard.
    >>>> Anyone else having similar feelings ?
    >>>> Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no
    >>>> longer participating here ?
    >>> Perhaps more people have given up due to the poor signal to noise
    >>> ratio.

    >> IMO the SNR has improved over the last year, or more (with one or two
    >> exceptions) but perhaps only because the noise power has decreased more
    >> quickly than the signal. I'd say ITRC is getting the lion's share of
    >> new technical queries and (new?) VMS participation. Pity it's closed,
    >> skunkworks and unrepresentative (and *that* interface). It's also likely
    >> that c.o.v. has already reached a critical threshold.

    >
    > Closed?


    One repository controlled by a hegemony.

    > skunkworks - perhaps


    AIUI; not 'officially' sanctioned or supported by mainstream HP.
    Supposedly explains the lack of investment in the HMI.

    > unrepresentative?


    I tried to ascertain why an announcement of a new release of soyMAIL had
    been pulled from the site. As with all lotteries - no correspondence
    will be entered into.

  13. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    On Oct 26, 11:54*am, David J Dachtera
    wrote:

    > "Complaints" are like pain: they tell us when something is wrong.


    Sometimes.

    Or they can just be an itch that wants to be scratched. Some, an itch
    that won't go away.

  14. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    Jerry Eckert wrote:
    >
    > On Oct 26, 11:54 am, David J Dachtera
    > wrote:
    >
    > > "Complaints" are like pain: they tell us when something is wrong.

    >
    > Sometimes.


    Always.

    > Or they can just be an itch that wants to be scratched. Some, an itch
    > that won't go away.


    ....in which case, you should be very, VERY afraid!

    "Google" for Inflammatory Breast Cancer (IBC).

    As one of the few men who has had a mammogram, this has special meaning
    for me.

    What at first seems an annoyance can indeed become potentially deadly,
    if dismissed as blithely as "an itch".

    D.J.D.

    P.S.:
    If you dismiss our pain so blithely, ask yourself: Where would OpenVMS
    profits be if HP took VMS as seriously as we take HP's neglect of it
    (and also the impact of that on our employers, our industry (healthcare,
    in my case) and our careers)? We're not only ones "hurting" here. HP is
    shooting their own feet while blowing sunshine up their people's skirts.
    "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

  15. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    David J Dachtera wrote:
    > Jerry Eckert wrote:
    >> On Oct 26, 11:54 am, David J Dachtera
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Complaints" are like pain: they tell us when something is wrong.

    >> Sometimes.

    >
    > Always.
    >
    >> Or they can just be an itch that wants to be scratched. Some, an itch
    >> that won't go away.

    >
    > ...in which case, you should be very, VERY afraid!
    >
    > "Google" for Inflammatory Breast Cancer (IBC).
    >
    > As one of the few men who has had a mammogram, this has special meaning
    > for me.
    >
    > What at first seems an annoyance can indeed become potentially deadly,
    > if dismissed as blithely as "an itch".
    >
    > D.J.D.
    >
    > P.S.:
    > If you dismiss our pain so blithely, ask yourself: Where would OpenVMS
    > profits be if HP took VMS as seriously as we take HP's neglect of it
    > (and also the impact of that on our employers, our industry (healthcare,
    > in my case) and our careers)? We're not only ones "hurting" here. HP is
    > shooting their own feet while blowing sunshine up their people's skirts.
    > "There are none so blind as those who will not see."


    VMS has never been very significant to HP! Ink and toner is where the
    money comes from. The damage was done many years ago and I can't think
    of anything likely to undo it! There are none so blind. . . .

    If it weren't for Sue, you wouldn't be able to find anyone at HP who
    could sell you a license or a media kit.

  16. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    David J Dachtera wrote:

    > in my case) and our careers)? We're not only ones "hurting" here. HP is
    > shooting their own feet while blowing sunshine up their people's skirts.
    > "There are none so blind as those who will not see."


    When you own your own business, and you have a primary source of revenu,
    you cherish it and ensure you don't lose customers and try to make it grow.

    But a large corporation is runned by accountants. They look at the
    revenus vs cost ratios, trends and decide which business units should
    grow and which should be allowed to wither away.

    Since HP has many products that fill the VMS niche, letting VMS wither
    away while steeriung customers over to HP-UX, Linux, Windows or NSK
    means that HP doesn't lose the customer. And when they close down a
    business unit but retain most of the customers, it means that they have
    redeuced the costs tremendously while keeping revenus the same, and to
    accountants, this is like an orgasm.

    MPE got the axe when HP moved to that IA64 thing. And when IA64 is put
    out of its misery, VMS will get the axe.

    We may complain about HP not having leveraged VMS or tried to grow it,
    tried to market it etc etc. But we should be thankful that HP chose to
    grandfather its unwanted, non-strategic VMS asset for this long.

  17. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    On 10 Nov, 02:30, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:
    > David J Dachtera wrote:
    > > Jerry Eckert wrote:
    > >> On Oct 26, 11:54 am, David J Dachtera
    > >> wrote:

    >
    > >>> "Complaints" are like pain: they tell us when something is wrong.
    > >> Sometimes.

    >
    > > Always.

    >
    > >> Or they can just be an itch that wants to be scratched. *Some, an itch
    > >> that won't go away.

    >
    > > ...in which case, you should be very, VERY afraid!

    >
    > > "Google" for Inflammatory Breast Cancer (IBC).

    >
    > > As one of the few men who has had a mammogram, this has special meaning
    > > for me.

    >
    > > What at first seems an annoyance can indeed become potentially deadly,
    > > if dismissed as blithely as "an itch".

    >
    > > D.J.D.

    >
    > > P.S.:
    > > If you dismiss our pain so blithely, ask yourself: Where would OpenVMS
    > > profits be if HP took VMS as seriously as we take HP's neglect of it
    > > (and also the impact of that on our employers, our industry (healthcare,
    > > in my case) and our careers)? We're not only ones "hurting" here. HP is
    > > shooting their own feet while blowing sunshine up their people's skirts..
    > > "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

    >
    > VMS has never been very significant to HP! *Ink and toner is where the
    > money comes from. *The damage was done many years ago and I can't think
    > of anything likely to undo it! *There are none so blind. . . .
    >
    > If it weren't for Sue, you wouldn't be able to find anyone at HP who
    > could sell you a license or a media kit.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Ok, I'm going to defend the UK sales team here.
    As someone working for a reseller of VMS systems, I have absolutely no
    problem getting the Teleweb team in the UK to talk to me and talk
    about selling VMS into customers. We've done and continue to do some
    very nice deals on OpenVMS on Integrity.
    Our software product relies on OpenVMS in its current incarnation and
    nicely it runs too.
    Also, there was lots of push and lots of help from HP to get us to
    Preferred Partner status for FY09.

    That doesn't mean that there isn't still some space for improvement,
    but it's not as bleak as only Sue knows where to get a media kit or
    license.
    Steve

  18. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    In article <0003b6c1$0$2534$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >
    > Since HP has many products that fill the VMS niche, letting VMS wither
    > away while steeriung customers over to HP-UX, Linux, Windows or NSK
    > means that HP doesn't lose the customer.


    HP has lots of products that can fill many niches where VMS is an
    option. But there are niches where VMS and not UNIX, Windows, or
    even Tandem is an option.


  19. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
    > On 10 Nov, 02:30, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:
    >> David J Dachtera wrote:
    >>> Jerry Eckert wrote:
    >>>> On Oct 26, 11:54 am, David J Dachtera
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>> "Complaints" are like pain: they tell us when something is wrong.
    >>>> Sometimes.
    >>> Always.
    >>>> Or they can just be an itch that wants to be scratched. Some, an itch
    >>>> that won't go away.
    >>> ...in which case, you should be very, VERY afraid!
    >>> "Google" for Inflammatory Breast Cancer (IBC).
    >>> As one of the few men who has had a mammogram, this has special meaning
    >>> for me.
    >>> What at first seems an annoyance can indeed become potentially deadly,
    >>> if dismissed as blithely as "an itch".
    >>> D.J.D.
    >>> P.S.:
    >>> If you dismiss our pain so blithely, ask yourself: Where would OpenVMS
    >>> profits be if HP took VMS as seriously as we take HP's neglect of it
    >>> (and also the impact of that on our employers, our industry (healthcare,
    >>> in my case) and our careers)? We're not only ones "hurting" here. HP is
    >>> shooting their own feet while blowing sunshine up their people's skirts.
    >>> "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

    >> VMS has never been very significant to HP! Ink and toner is where the
    >> money comes from. The damage was done many years ago and I can't think
    >> of anything likely to undo it! There are none so blind. . . .
    >>
    >> If it weren't for Sue, you wouldn't be able to find anyone at HP who
    >> could sell you a license or a media kit.- Hide quoted text -
    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Ok, I'm going to defend the UK sales team here.
    > As someone working for a reseller of VMS systems, I have absolutely no
    > problem getting the Teleweb team in the UK to talk to me and talk
    > about selling VMS into customers. We've done and continue to do some
    > very nice deals on OpenVMS on Integrity.
    > Our software product relies on OpenVMS in its current incarnation and
    > nicely it runs too.
    > Also, there was lots of push and lots of help from HP to get us to
    > Preferred Partner status for FY09.
    >
    > That doesn't mean that there isn't still some space for improvement,
    > but it's not as bleak as only Sue knows where to get a media kit or
    > license.
    > Steve


    The available evidence suggests that the UK team is doing a better job
    than the US team (with ONE notable exception).

    There have been a number of horror stories posted here concerning
    people's unsuccessful efforts to contact someone at HP who can sell them
    a VMS license or a media kit.

    In each case, Sue has been able to kick butt and get some action and/or
    supply a hard to find phone number for the VMS salesperson at HP. There
    is ONE but he's hard to find.

  20. Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ?

    In article <3wmmutDb+s6e@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    > In article <0003b6c1$0$2534$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >>
    >> Since HP has many products that fill the VMS niche, letting VMS wither
    >> away while steeriung customers over to HP-UX, Linux, Windows or NSK
    >> means that HP doesn't lose the customer.

    >
    > HP has lots of products that can fill many niches where VMS is an
    > option. But there are niches where VMS and not UNIX, Windows, or
    > even Tandem is an option.


    Not enough of them to even count. And certainly not enough to justify
    investing any money in the advancement of VMS. If it were othewrwise,
    we wouldn't always be coming back to this same discusion.

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

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