printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster - VMS

This is a discussion on printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster - VMS ; I have no printer in my hobbyist cluster (VAX and ALPHA, nothing very new). I would like to have one. The minimum would be a printer which would print plain text as well as PostScript. These days, it should also ...

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  1. printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    I have no printer in my hobbyist cluster (VAX and ALPHA, nothing very
    new). I would like to have one. The minimum would be a printer which
    would print plain text as well as PostScript. These days, it should
    also be possible to print a PDF file on it. Another requirement would
    be the ability for a web browser to print a given page (not sure how
    this works behind the scenes). Colour would be nice, but I could live
    with black and white if colour is going to cost me a lot more (in
    initial costs or in maintenance).

    I don't care how it is connected up, as long as it can be. (Serial?
    Parallel? Network?) An added plus would be the ability for non-VMS
    stuff on the LAN to use it as well (presumably this would imply a
    network connection).

    300 DPI should be enough, but 600 (or even more) would be nice.

    Can I buy some new printer off the shelf in any old shop?

    What new HP printers would fit the bill?

    What used DEC/Compaq/HP printers would fit the bill?

    To save paper, the ability to print double-sided would be nice.

    A4 is the only size I need.

    If anyone has such a printer to give away or sell cheap in Europe, let
    me know and I'll see if I can come and get it.


  2. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    On 8 okt, 19:52, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---
    remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:
    > I have no printer in my hobbyist cluster (VAX and ALPHA, nothing very
    > new). *I would like to have one. The minimum would be a printer which
    > would print plain text as well as PostScript. *These days, it should
    > also be possible to print a PDF file on it. *Another requirement would
    > be the ability for a web browser to print a given page (not sure how
    > this works behind the scenes). *Colour would be nice, but I could live
    > with black and white if colour is going to cost me a lot more (in
    > initial costs or in maintenance).
    >
    > I don't care how it is connected up, as long as it can be. *(Serial? *
    > Parallel? *Network?) *An added plus would be the ability for non-VMS
    > stuff on the LAN to use it as well (presumably this would imply a
    > network connection).
    >
    > 300 DPI should be enough, but 600 (or even more) would be nice.
    >
    > Can I buy some new printer off the shelf in any old shop?
    >
    > What new HP printers would fit the bill?
    >
    > What used DEC/Compaq/HP printers would fit the bill?
    >
    > To save paper, the ability to print double-sided would be nice.
    >
    > A4 is the only size I need.
    >
    > If anyone has such a printer to give away or sell cheap in Europe, let
    > me know and I'll see if I can come and get it.


    Phillip, I use an HP1010 laserjet. It prints plain ASCII. The 1010 is
    connected to a little Linksys printserver.
    I have never tried pdf, nor ps on it from VMS.
    Hans

  3. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    > I have no printer in my hobbyist cluster (VAX and ALPHA, nothing very
    > new). I would like to have one. The minimum would be a printer which
    > would print plain text as well as PostScript. These days, it should
    > also be possible to print a PDF file on it. Another requirement would
    > be the ability for a web browser to print a given page (not sure how
    > this works behind the scenes). Colour would be nice, but I could live
    > with black and white if colour is going to cost me a lot more (in
    > initial costs or in maintenance).
    >
    > I don't care how it is connected up, as long as it can be. (Serial?
    > Parallel? Network?) An added plus would be the ability for non-VMS
    > stuff on the LAN to use it as well (presumably this would imply a
    > network connection).
    >
    > 300 DPI should be enough, but 600 (or even more) would be nice.
    >
    > Can I buy some new printer off the shelf in any old shop?
    >
    > What new HP printers would fit the bill?
    >
    > What used DEC/Compaq/HP printers would fit the bill?
    >
    > To save paper, the ability to print double-sided would be nice.
    >
    > A4 is the only size I need.
    >
    > If anyone has such a printer to give away or sell cheap in Europe, let
    > me know and I'll see if I can come and get it.
    >


    Now, *many* of your points would be answered by reading some
    sales material... ;-)

    I use a HP LaserJet P2015n as noted in a another thread.
    PCL5, PCL6 and Postscript. It "works". I also have a
    HP Color Laserjet 2600n on my office LAN, but not setup from my
    VMS box yet, but I see no reason why that should be any problem.

    I've used the n-up feature of DCPS to print 2-page pages of COBOL
    source code on the P2015n, nice...

    I guess that a printer with a builtin LAN interface is what
    most would use today.

    With todays prices on laser printers I see no reason to
    look for used/old stuff. Newer printers always have nice
    builtin setup web pages which makes them realy easy to
    work with. And of course you use a PC browser to do that...

    Jan-Erik.

  4. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    >> I have no printer in my hobbyist cluster (VAX and ALPHA, nothing very
    >> new). I would like to have one. The minimum would be a printer which
    >> would print plain text as well as PostScript. These days, it should
    >> also be possible to print a PDF file on it. Another requirement would
    >> be the ability for a web browser to print a given page (not sure how
    >> this works behind the scenes). Colour would be nice, but I could live
    >> with black and white if colour is going to cost me a lot more (in
    >> initial costs or in maintenance).
    >> I don't care how it is connected up, as long as it can be. (Serial?
    >> Parallel? Network?) An added plus would be the ability for non-VMS
    >> stuff on the LAN to use it as well (presumably this would imply a
    >> network connection).
    >>
    >> 300 DPI should be enough, but 600 (or even more) would be nice.
    >>
    >> Can I buy some new printer off the shelf in any old shop?
    >>
    >> What new HP printers would fit the bill?
    >>
    >> What used DEC/Compaq/HP printers would fit the bill?
    >>
    >> To save paper, the ability to print double-sided would be nice.
    >>
    >> A4 is the only size I need.
    >>
    >> If anyone has such a printer to give away or sell cheap in Europe, let
    >> me know and I'll see if I can come and get it.
    >>

    >
    > Now, *many* of your points would be answered by reading some
    > sales material... ;-)
    >
    > I use a HP LaserJet P2015n as noted in a another thread.
    > PCL5, PCL6 and Postscript. It "works". I also have a
    > HP Color Laserjet 2600n on my office LAN, but not setup from my
    > VMS box yet, but I see no reason why that should be any problem.
    >
    > I've used the n-up feature of DCPS to print 2-page pages of COBOL
    > source code on the P2015n, nice...
    >
    > I guess that a printer with a builtin LAN interface is what
    > most would use today.
    >
    > With todays prices on laser printers I see no reason to
    > look for used/old stuff. Newer printers always have nice
    > builtin setup web pages which makes them realy easy to
    > work with. And of course you use a PC browser to do that...
    >
    > Jan-Erik.


    Correction !
    HP printers (of any type) using *host-based* rendering (such
    as the cheaper Color LJ's) are of course not supported on VMS
    or anything else then Windows (and maybe some Mac's)...

  5. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    In article ,
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
    writes:

    > Now, *many* of your points would be answered by reading some
    > sales material... ;-)


    Perhaps, but even quite old, used printers might be an option for me.
    Also, "Will it work with VMS?" is a question the sales literature
    probably doesn't answer.

    > With todays prices on laser printers I see no reason to
    > look for used/old stuff. Newer printers always have nice
    > builtin setup web pages which makes them realy easy to
    > work with. And of course you use a PC browser to do that...


    I would use CSWB on an ALPHA!


  6. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    On Oct 8, 12:20*pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---
    remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:
    > In article ,
    > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
    > writes:
    >
    > > Now, *many* of your points would be answered by reading some
    > > sales material... ;-)

    >
    > Perhaps, but even quite old, used printers might be an option for me.
    > Also, "Will it work with VMS?" is a question the sales literature
    > probably doesn't answer.
    >
    > > With todays prices on laser printers I see no reason to
    > > look for used/old stuff. Newer printers always have nice
    > > builtin setup web pages which makes them realy easy to
    > > work with. And of course you use a PC browser to do that...

    >
    > I would use CSWB on an ALPHA!


    Then to shorten what Jan-Erik was saying, look through
    the DCPS documentation for supported printers and get
    one of those. That will address everything you asked for
    except the pdf printing (which I think Xpdf would address)
    and which specific models do duplex printing. I'd definitely
    network-attached high on the list of required features.

    I'll also note the current versions of DCPS are much easier
    to use with "unsupported" printers, e.g., newer models...

    -Ken

  7. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    >
    >> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have no printer in my hobbyist cluster (VAX and ALPHA, nothing very
    >>> new). I would like to have one. The minimum would be a printer which
    >>> would print plain text as well as PostScript. These days, it should
    >>> also be possible to print a PDF file on it. Another requirement would
    >>> be the ability for a web browser to print a given page (not sure how
    >>> this works behind the scenes). Colour would be nice, but I could live
    >>> with black and white if colour is going to cost me a lot more (in
    >>> initial costs or in maintenance).
    >>> I don't care how it is connected up, as long as it can be. (Serial?
    >>> Parallel? Network?) An added plus would be the ability for non-VMS
    >>> stuff on the LAN to use it as well (presumably this would imply a
    >>> network connection).
    >>>
    >>> 300 DPI should be enough, but 600 (or even more) would be nice.
    >>>
    >>> Can I buy some new printer off the shelf in any old shop?
    >>>
    >>> What new HP printers would fit the bill?
    >>>
    >>> What used DEC/Compaq/HP printers would fit the bill?
    >>>
    >>> To save paper, the ability to print double-sided would be nice.
    >>>
    >>> A4 is the only size I need.
    >>>
    >>> If anyone has such a printer to give away or sell cheap in Europe,
    >>> let me know and I'll see if I can come and get it.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Now, *many* of your points would be answered by reading some
    >> sales material... ;-)
    >>
    >> I use a HP LaserJet P2015n as noted in a another thread.
    >> PCL5, PCL6 and Postscript. It "works". I also have a
    >> HP Color Laserjet 2600n on my office LAN, but not setup from my
    >> VMS box yet, but I see no reason why that should be any problem.
    >>
    >> I've used the n-up feature of DCPS to print 2-page pages of COBOL
    >> source code on the P2015n, nice...
    >>
    >> I guess that a printer with a builtin LAN interface is what
    >> most would use today.
    >>
    >> With todays prices on laser printers I see no reason to
    >> look for used/old stuff. Newer printers always have nice
    >> builtin setup web pages which makes them realy easy to
    >> work with. And of course you use a PC browser to do that...
    >>
    >> Jan-Erik.

    >
    >
    > Correction !
    > HP printers (of any type) using *host-based* rendering (such
    > as the cheaper Color LJ's) are of course not supported on VMS
    > or anything else then Windows (and maybe some Mac's)...


    Maybe things have changed recently, but I got a deskjet 5550
    free with my Mac PowerBook (about 5 years ago, can that be?)
    which works fine with my VMS systems... I have it plugged
    the USB port on my Airport wifi router, and print to it using
    TCPware's telnet printer symbiont on port 9100 of the router,
    using a device control library we wrote many years ago for
    a laserjet 3D. Just simple stuff, mostly plain text, but it
    works. Can't get cheaper than "free". :-)

    --
    John Santos
    Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
    781-861-0670 ext 539

  8. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    In article
    ,
    Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com writes:

    > Then to shorten what Jan-Erik was saying, look through
    > the DCPS documentation for supported printers and get
    > one of those.


    OK.

    > That will address everything you asked for
    > except the pdf printing (which I think Xpdf would address)


    Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I
    could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into
    something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than
    a bitmap.


  9. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    > In article
    > ,
    > Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com writes:
    >
    >> Then to shorten what Jan-Erik was saying, look through
    >> the DCPS documentation for supported printers and get
    >> one of those.

    >
    > OK.
    >
    >> That will address everything you asked for
    >> except the pdf printing (which I think Xpdf would address)

    >
    > Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I
    > could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into
    > something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than
    > a bitmap.
    >


    Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a
    possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS).

  10. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    In article ,
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
    writes:

    > > Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I
    > > could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into
    > > something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than
    > > a bitmap.
    > >

    >
    > Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a
    > possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS).


    So what happens now? What format does it get converted to?


  11. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    > In article ,
    > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
    > writes:
    >
    >>> Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I
    >>> could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into
    >>> something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than
    >>> a bitmap.
    >>>

    >> Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a
    >> possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS).

    >
    > So what happens now?


    Now ?

    > What format does it get converted to?


    Converted by what ?



  12. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:

    >> Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a
    >> possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS).

    >
    > So what happens now? What format does it get converted to?


    PDF is essentially a pre-executed postscript.

    The original postscript code may have a fancy loop with fancy
    calculations that draw lines. Generating the PDF involves executing that
    loop and capturing the actual drawing commands with the calculated
    coordinates/arguments.

    So the PDF document is to postcript what RISC is to CISC: a whole bunch
    more of simple instructions compared to a fancy complex but smaller
    postscript programme.

    However, once you have opened, uncompressed and parsed the PDF document,
    you end up with enssentially postscript commands you can format in text
    that is a postcript file that can be sent to a printer.

    (there are .PDF extensions for on-line/interactive use such as adding
    notes etc, but the PDF->PS converter can simply inop those and not
    bother translating them).


    So I assume that DCPS will have a PDF->PS converter and feed the
    resulting PS to the printer. This is what XPDF does: you open it, print
    the PDF which generates the postscript from it.

  13. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    In article ,
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
    writes:

    > >>> Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I
    > >>> could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into
    > >>> something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than
    > >>> a bitmap.
    > >>>
    > >> Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a
    > >> possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS).

    > >
    > > So what happens now?

    >
    > Now ?
    >
    > > What format does it get converted to?

    >
    > Converted by what ?


    By whatever means one uses to print PDF files, if the printer can't
    handle them directly.

    According to JF, it is converted to PostScript.


  14. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    > In article ,
    > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
    > writes:
    >
    >>>>> Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I
    >>>>> could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into
    >>>>> something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than
    >>>>> a bitmap.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a
    >>>> possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS).
    >>> So what happens now?

    >> Now ?
    >>
    >>> What format does it get converted to?

    >> Converted by what ?

    >
    > By whatever means one uses to print PDF files, if the printer can't
    > handle them directly.
    >
    > According to JF, it is converted to PostScript.


    On VMS ?

    Or are you talking about printing from a PC ?
    In that case it's converted by the printer driver
    to whatever the actual printer supports, usualy PCL
    or Postscript (or, if using host-based rendering, to
    some internal format). But that's obvious...

    I'm lost... :-)

    Jan-Erik.

  15. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:

    > Or are you talking about printing from a PC ?
    > In that case it's converted by the printer driver
    > to whatever the actual printer supports, usualy PCL
    > or Postscript


    From a PC, Adobe Reader does have the ability to use standard printer
    drivers and generate PCL or whatever. Not sure how it does that. The
    application probably converts the PDF code into internal representation
    of each "object", and then converts it to whatecver for printing using
    the printer drivers.

    But on VMS, what we can probably expect is a simple conversion from the
    embedded simplified postscript into actual postscript code sent to the
    printer.

    Perhaps Mr Anderson can chime in and explain what the plans would be.

  16. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    >
    >> Or are you talking about printing from a PC ?
    >> In that case it's converted by the printer driver
    >> to whatever the actual printer supports, usualy PCL
    >> or Postscript

    >
    > From a PC, Adobe Reader does have the ability to use standard printer
    > drivers and generate PCL or whatever. Not sure how it does that. The
    > application probably converts the PDF code into internal representation
    > of each "object", and then converts it to whatecver for printing using
    > the printer drivers.


    We all know that. But was it realy that platform the question
    was initialy about ?

    > But on VMS, what we can probably expect...


    Maybe, but that isn't "now" as the question was about...

    I'll leave it...

  17. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    On 2008-10-08 21:20, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote:

    > Perhaps, but even quite old, used printers might be an option for me.
    > Also, "Will it work with VMS?" is a question the sales literature
    > probably doesn't answer.


    If it says something like "printer drivers are available for Windows
    2000, XP and Vista as well as for Mac OS X 10.3 and up" you can conclude
    that it most probably won't work with VMS very well ...

    > [...]


    Michael

    --
    Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.
    My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.

  18. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    Michael Unger wrote:
    > On 2008-10-08 21:20, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote:
    >
    >> Perhaps, but even quite old, used printers might be an option for me.
    >> Also, "Will it work with VMS?" is a question the sales literature
    >> probably doesn't answer.

    >
    > If it says something like "printer drivers are available for Windows
    > 2000, XP and Vista as well as for Mac OS X 10.3 and up" you can conclude
    > that it most probably won't work with VMS very well ...
    >
    >> [...]

    >
    > Michael
    >


    Now, many printers that does have specific drivers for some
    other OS's *does* also run just OK with VMS. It depends on the
    printer itself...

  19. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    In article ,
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
    writes:

    > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    > > In article ,
    > > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
    > > writes:
    > >
    > >>>>> Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I
    > >>>>> could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into
    > >>>>> something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than
    > >>>>> a bitmap.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>> Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a
    > >>>> possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS).
    > >>> So what happens now?
    > >> Now ?
    > >>
    > >>> What format does it get converted to?
    > >> Converted by what ?

    > >
    > > By whatever means one uses to print PDF files, if the printer can't
    > > handle them directly.
    > >
    > > According to JF, it is converted to PostScript.

    >
    > On VMS ?
    >
    > Or are you talking about printing from a PC ?


    Sorry, Xpdf on VMS.


  20. Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster

    In article <48ee10b7$0$12402$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
    JF Mezei wrote:

    > But on VMS, what we can probably expect is a simple conversion from
    > the embedded simplified postscript into actual postscript code sent
    > to the printer.
    >
    > Perhaps Mr Anderson can chime in and explain what the plans would be.


    There are three possibilities, none of which has yet been chosen, nor
    have we committed to adding such capabilities.

    1. Send PDF file unchanged to printers that can print PDF files
    directly.

    2. Put a hook into DCPS such that customers could "roll their own"
    procedure with an application of their choosing (Ghostscript for
    example) to convert PDF to PostScript.

    3. Include a full PDF-to-PostScript translator in DCPS.

    The best and most expensive choice is #3.

    Paul

    --
    Paul Anderson
    OpenVMS Engineering
    Hewlett-Packard Company

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