New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far - VMS

This is a discussion on New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far - VMS ; Ian posted this on openvms.org http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../09/29/1132349 "field test version of HP Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS (based on SeaMonkey V1.1-10)" ========== The story doesn't mention platforms but the HP page only has info on an Itanium version. Seamonkey is the ...

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Thread: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

  1. New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    Ian posted this on openvms.org

    http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../09/29/1132349

    "field test version of HP Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS (based on
    SeaMonkey V1.1-10)"

    ==========

    The story doesn't mention platforms but the HP page only has info on
    an Itanium version.

    Seamonkey is the integrated application successor to Mozilla, not the
    VMS Firefox port that was mentioned quite a while ago.

    I did not see any mention of the product being available for Alpha
    platforms, but I haven't read through all the docs yet. There does
    seem to be a defined 'break' between "Mozilla for Alpha" being
    unsupported and "Secure Web Browser" for Itanium being supported. No
    mention in that one doc about "Secure Web Browser for Alpha" that I'm
    currently running. Have they renamed it back to Mozilla?

    From the document Q&A:

    Q: What are the differences between the Secure Web Browser and Mozilla
    for OpenVMS?

    A: The Secure Web Browser is supported by HP, but Mozilla for OpenVMS
    Alpha is not supported. The Secure Web Browser T1.1-10 is based on
    SeaMonkey V1.1.10.

    You can download Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha from the OpenVMS web site
    at
    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...r_mozilla.html.


    I hope an Alpha version is coming soon. However the way this is
    worded has me thinking they don't plan on it.

  2. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    Rich Jordan wrote:

    > seem to be a defined 'break' between "Mozilla for Alpha" being
    > unsupported and "Secure Web Browser" for Itanium being supported.



    I think that a timeline may explain:

    The Compaq Secure Web Browser was the proprietary implementation of
    Mozilla that was compiled/packaged for VMS. I don't think that VMS
    existed on those IA64 things yet.

    Since then, the Mozilla group abandonned the Mozilla product and forked
    it into Firefox and Thunderbird. But a group of devoted folks decided to
    resurrect the Mozilla (aka: Netscape) source and started the Seamonkey
    project which is ongoing.

    So today, since "Mozilla" is no longer developped, it is normal that HP
    might not wish to call the CSWB product "supported".


    As to whether new development of Seamonkey on VMS might come to Alpha,
    this is an interesting question. If this is still beta, I could
    understand that it would be on a single platform, and once beta is done,
    they may cross compile the whole kit and kaboodle onto Alpha. (building
    the beast is very involved and requires a whole lot of middleware not
    only for the code, but also to modify/generate code for that platform.

  3. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:31:28 -0700, JF Mezei
    wrote:

    > Rich Jordan wrote:
    >
    >> seem to be a defined 'break' between "Mozilla for Alpha" being
    >> unsupported and "Secure Web Browser" for Itanium being supported.

    >
    >
    > I think that a timeline may explain:
    >
    > The Compaq Secure Web Browser was the proprietary implementation of
    > Mozilla that was compiled/packaged for VMS. I don't think that VMS
    > existed on those IA64 things yet.
    >
    > Since then, the Mozilla group abandonned the Mozilla product and forked
    > it into Firefox and Thunderbird. But a group of devoted folks decided to
    > resurrect the Mozilla (aka: Netscape) source and started the Seamonkey
    > project which is ongoing.
    >
    > So today, since "Mozilla" is no longer developped, it is normal that HP
    > might not wish to call the CSWB product "supported".
    >
    >
    > As to whether new development of Seamonkey on VMS might come to Alpha,
    > this is an interesting question. If this is still beta, I could
    > understand that it would be on a single platform, and once beta is done,
    > they may cross compile the whole kit and kaboodle onto Alpha. (building
    > the beast is very involved and requires a whole lot of middleware not
    > only for the code, but also to modify/generate code for that platform.


    Why on earth would VMS engr spend the resources to do this, I mean who
    really
    gives a tinkers damn? And while we're at it, drop CSWB, we have WASD,
    which
    is far better supported. Seamonkey, BTW, was a scam marketing scheme to
    sell
    exoctic ceatures to young kids (my daugher had me get her some) they are
    krill.
    (I think)

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  4. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    "Tom Linden" writes:

    >Seamonkey, BTW, was a scam marketing scheme to
    >sell
    >exoctic ceatures to young kids (my daugher had me get her some) they are
    >krill.
    >(I think)


    Brine shrimp.

  5. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    I have downloaded the Beta and it works very nicely - appears to be
    stable.

    I don't get involved in politics where I can help it but it seems to
    me that there needs to be at least one native web browser supported
    under VMS, and equally a modern email client.

    Mark.

  6. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    Is the source code not available for the OpenVMS port? I am assuming
    that the mozilla licensing requires the source code to be published
    for derivatives, but I could be wrong. If this is the case then
    presumably someone could compile up an alpha version.

    Regards, Mark.

  7. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    In article , Rich Jordan writes:
    >Ian posted this on openvms.org
    >
    >http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../09/29/1132349
    >
    >"field test version of HP Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS (based on
    >SeaMonkey V1.1-10)"
    >
    >==========
    >
    >The story doesn't mention platforms but the HP page only has info on
    >an Itanium version.
    >
    >Seamonkey is the integrated application successor to Mozilla, not the
    >VMS Firefox port that was mentioned quite a while ago.
    >
    >I did not see any mention of the product being available for Alpha
    >platforms, but I haven't read through all the docs yet. There does
    >seem to be a defined 'break' between "Mozilla for Alpha" being
    >unsupported and "Secure Web Browser" for Itanium being supported. No
    >mention in that one doc about "Secure Web Browser for Alpha" that I'm
    >currently running. Have they renamed it back to Mozilla?
    >
    >From the document Q&A:
    >
    >Q: What are the differences between the Secure Web Browser and Mozilla
    >for OpenVMS?
    >
    >A: The Secure Web Browser is supported by HP, but Mozilla for OpenVMS
    >Alpha is not supported. The Secure Web Browser T1.1-10 is based on
    >SeaMonkey V1.1.10.
    >
    >You can download Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha from the OpenVMS web site
    >at
    >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...r_mozilla.html.
    >
    >
    >I hope an Alpha version is coming soon. However the way this is
    >worded has me thinking they don't plan on it.


    Since Alpha and Itanium supposedly share a pretty much common codebase it would
    be surprising if the ported SeaMonkey code couldn't be compiled on both Alpha
    and Itanium.

    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University


  8. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    >On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:31:28 -0700, JF Mezei
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Rich Jordan wrote:
    >>
    >>> seem to be a defined 'break' between "Mozilla for Alpha" being
    >>> unsupported and "Secure Web Browser" for Itanium being supported.

    >>
    >>
    >> I think that a timeline may explain:
    >>
    >> The Compaq Secure Web Browser was the proprietary implementation of
    >> Mozilla that was compiled/packaged for VMS. I don't think that VMS
    >> existed on those IA64 things yet.
    >>
    >> Since then, the Mozilla group abandonned the Mozilla product and forked
    >> it into Firefox and Thunderbird. But a group of devoted folks decided to
    >> resurrect the Mozilla (aka: Netscape) source and started the Seamonkey
    >> project which is ongoing.
    >>
    >> So today, since "Mozilla" is no longer developped, it is normal that HP
    >> might not wish to call the CSWB product "supported".
    >>
    >>
    >> As to whether new development of Seamonkey on VMS might come to Alpha,
    >> this is an interesting question. If this is still beta, I could
    >> understand that it would be on a single platform, and once beta is done,
    >> they may cross compile the whole kit and kaboodle onto Alpha. (building
    >> the beast is very involved and requires a whole lot of middleware not
    >> only for the code, but also to modify/generate code for that platform.

    >
    >Why on earth would VMS engr spend the resources to do this, I mean who
    >really
    >gives a tinkers damn? And while we're at it, drop CSWB, we have WASD,
    >which
    >is far better supported. Seamonkey, BTW, was a scam marketing scheme to
    >sell
    >exoctic ceatures to young kids (my daugher had me get her some) they are
    >krill.
    >(I think)
    >

    Sorry definitely disagree. I want a modern browser on VMS.
    The sooner SeaMonkey is available for Alpha the better.

    David Webb
    Security Team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University

    >--
    >PL/I for OpenVMS
    >www.kednos.com


  9. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    In article <228a620a-550f-405b-9e25-7e1d93310a44@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, urbancamo writes:
    >I have downloaded the Beta and it works very nicely - appears to be
    >stable.
    >
    >I don't get involved in politics where I can help it but it seems to
    >me that there needs to be at least one native web browser supported
    >under VMS, and equally a modern email client.
    >
    >Mark.


    Mark,

    Totally Agree.

    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University

  10. RE: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far



    -----Original Message-----
    >From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
    >Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:52 PM
    >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com

    ?Subject: Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far


    > gives a tinkers damn? And while we're at it, drop CSWB, we have WASD,
    >which
    >is far better supported. Seamonkey, BTW, was a scam marketing scheme to



    Excuse me? You are saying that since we have a web SERVER on VMS there is no need for a web BROWSER? Or are you claiming that WASD is a web BROWSER?

    Eric Ebinger

  11. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:19:04 -0700, wrote:

    > Sorry definitely disagree. I want a modern browser on VMS.
    > The sooner SeaMonkey is available for Alpha the better.


    Why? What would you use it for?

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  12. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    >
    > Why on earth would VMS engr spend the resources to do this, I mean who
    > really
    > gives a tinkers damn?


    I do. I browse from VMS on a regular basis, without fear of some
    web site attacking me via IE loopholes.


  13. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:23:35 -0700, Ebinger . Eric
    wrote:

    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
    >> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:52 PM
    >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com

    > ?Subject: Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far
    >
    >
    >> gives a tinkers damn? And while we're at it, drop CSWB, we have WASD,

    Sorry, typo, meant CSWS
    >> which
    >> is far better supported. Seamonkey, BTW, was a scam marketing scheme to

    >
    >
    > Excuse me? You are saying that since we have a web SERVER on VMS there
    > is no need for a web BROWSER? Or are you claiming that WASD is a web
    > BROWSER?
    >
    > Eric Ebinger




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  14. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    On Sep 30, 7:31*am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    >
    > > Why on earth would VMS engr spend the resources to do this, I mean who *
    > > really
    > > gives a tinkers damn?

    >
    > * *I do. *I browse from VMS on a regular basis, without fear of some
    > * *web site attacking me via IE loopholes.


    My primary desktop at home is an Alpha PWS. I also want an up to date
    browser. At some point my VAXstation at work may no longer meet needs
    and get replaced, probably by an XP1000 or DS10, at which point I'll
    want a browser on it for work.

    Alphas have two major advantages right now for that task (over
    itaniums). They are more available (hobbyist side, and to be fair,
    also at work with real licenses) due to cost and 'hand me downs' from
    ugprades, and they are much more amenable to use in an office
    environment. Itaniums are bloody noisy and hot, even with the 'office
    friendly' kits.

  15. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    On Sep 29, 10:17*pm, Rich Jordan wrote:
    > Ian posted this on openvms.org
    >
    > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../09/29/1132349
    >
    > "field test version of HP Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS (based on
    > SeaMonkey V1.1-10)"
    >
    > ==========
    >
    > The story doesn't mention platforms but the HP page only has info on
    > an Itanium version.
    >
    > Seamonkey is the integrated application successor to Mozilla, not the
    > VMS Firefox port that was mentioned quite a while ago.
    >
    > I did not see any mention of the product being available for Alpha
    > platforms, but I haven't read through all the docs yet. *There does
    > seem to be a defined 'break' between "Mozilla for Alpha" being
    > unsupported and "Secure Web Browser" for Itanium being supported. *No
    > mention in that one doc about "Secure Web Browser for Alpha" that I'm
    > currently running. *Have they renamed it back to Mozilla?
    >
    > From the document Q&A:
    >
    > Q: What are the differences between the Secure Web Browser and Mozilla
    > for OpenVMS?
    >
    > A: The Secure Web Browser is supported by HP, but Mozilla for OpenVMS
    > Alpha is not supported. The Secure Web Browser T1.1-10 is based on
    > SeaMonkey V1.1.10.
    >
    > You can download Mozilla for OpenVMS Alpha from the OpenVMS web site
    > athttp://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/register_mozilla.html.
    >
    > I hope an Alpha version is coming soon. *However the way this is
    > worded has me thinking they don't plan on it.



    I'm told there will be a kit for OpenVMS Alpha. The port of a browser
    based on Firefox is a separate project and has not yet released
    anything publicly.

  16. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    > On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:19:04 -0700, wrote:
    >
    >> Sorry definitely disagree. I want a modern browser on VMS.
    >> The sooner SeaMonkey is available for Alpha the better.

    >
    > Why? What would you use it for?


    As my primary browser both at home and work for sites which require
    Javascript.

    I put your question in the same category as I'd put "Why would anyone
    want PL/I on Itanium? Why not just move off VMS instead?"


    George Cook
    WVNET

  17. OT: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:50:35 -0700, George Cook
    wrote:

    > In article , "Tom Linden"
    > writes:
    >> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:19:04 -0700, wrote:
    >>
    >>> Sorry definitely disagree. I want a modern browser on VMS.
    >>> The sooner SeaMonkey is available for Alpha the better.

    >>
    >> Why? What would you use it for?

    >
    > As my primary browser both at home and work for sites which require
    > Javascript.
    >
    > I put your question in the same category as I'd put "Why would anyone
    > want PL/I on Itanium? Why not just move off VMS instead?"


    To avoid buffer overruns:-) Seriously, you could replace 'PL/I' with
    'anything' in that sentence. BTW, we do provide support for translated
    images with native runtime support on Itanium.

    Digital years ago stopped supporting VMS on the desktop and trying to
    deploy
    it in that manner is like swimming upstream. There is so much that is
    missing,
    hell I can't even get a decent version of emacs. What about brower plugins,
    spreadsheets, ...?

    I actually use three different browsers on XP, IE, Firefox and Opera. some
    only work with IE. With PuTTY, eXcursion, SWCC I think it makes a great
    desktop
    for managing and working on the cluster, because I have broadband wireless
    access
    on my laptop I can do it from any golf course in North America:-) I have
    not
    experienced any viral intrusions. It's an appliance.

    >
    >
    > George Cook
    > WVNET




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  18. Re: OT: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    Tom Linden wrote:

    > Digital years ago stopped supporting VMS on the desktop and trying to
    > deploy
    > it in that manner is like swimming upstream.



    And where is Digital today ? Where is VMS today compared to the days
    where it had better desktop software than DOS / Windows ?

    Providing basic/core desktop functionality is necessary for an OS to
    survive today. Doesn't mean that you have to have goals of displacing
    Windows as most widely deployed desktop. But having decent interactive
    tools is necessary for an OS to be viable.

    Next thing, you'll state that having the interactive debugger available
    on VMS is not necessary/desirable ?


  19. Re: OT: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far

    On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:57:58 -0700, JF Mezei
    wrote:

    > Tom Linden wrote:
    >
    >> Digital years ago stopped supporting VMS on the desktop and trying to
    >> deploy
    >> it in that manner is like swimming upstream.

    >
    >
    > And where is Digital today ? Where is VMS today compared to the days
    > where it had better desktop software than DOS / Windows ?
    >
    > Providing basic/core desktop functionality is necessary for an OS to
    > survive today. Doesn't mean that you have to have goals of displacing
    > Windows as most widely deployed desktop. But having decent interactive
    > tools is necessary for an OS to be viable.
    >
    > Next thing, you'll state that having the interactive debugger available
    > on VMS is not necessary/desirable ?


    That is a different kettle of fish. I run the debugger, or rather I
    display
    it on my laptop courtesy of ssh tunnel through eXcursion.

    >




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  20. Re: New browser for OpenVMS in field test, Itanium only so far



    Rich Jordan wrote:
    > On Sep 30, 7:31 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    > Koehler) wrote:
    >
    >>In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Why on earth would VMS engr spend the resources to do this, I mean who
    >>>really gives a tinkers damn?


    Anybody who actually uses their VMS systems, and thus might occasionally
    want patches or new software, both of which are primarily distributed
    over the web.


    >> I do. I browse from VMS on a regular basis, without fear of some
    >> web site attacking me via IE loopholes.


    Any browser (well, all code) has loopholes. Most likely the main impetus
    behind the current Seamonkey/Mozilla update is the security fixes that
    have become available. I wouldn't assume that browsing on VMS is
    inherently safer, though having an up-to-date browser does increase the
    odds of same.

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