What creates .RND files? - VMS

This is a discussion on What creates .RND files? - VMS ; We have a VMS V8.3 system running Multinet and Oracle Rdb. Other than Rdb, it is pretty much a run-of-the-mill VMS system. When analyzing our disks, we found there to be a bunch of .RND;1 files, just one each, in ...

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Thread: What creates .RND files?

  1. What creates .RND files?

    We have a VMS V8.3 system running Multinet and Oracle Rdb. Other than
    Rdb, it is pretty much a run-of-the-mill VMS system. When analyzing
    our disks, we found there to be a bunch of .RND;1 files, just one
    each, in everyone's top level directory. Each file is exactly 2 blocks
    long. A dump shows just random binary values. So, true to its name, it
    does look like random data.

    We connect to the system with both telnet and SSH from Windows systems
    (PuTTY and CRT) and from other VMS system. There is even some SET HOST
    activity still going on as we continue to support LAT.

    I seem to recall from somewhere in the past the Rdb created these
    files as pat of its normal operations. I also know that SSH likes to
    have a random seed here an there. I've Googled this condition but did
    not find anything definite.

    This is mostly curiosity as to where they come from. Any ideas?


  2. Re: What creates .RND files?

    On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:58:42 -0500, VMS is Virus Free
    wrote:

    >We have a VMS V8.3 system running Multinet and Oracle Rdb. Other than
    >Rdb, it is pretty much a run-of-the-mill VMS system. When analyzing
    >our disks, we found there to be a bunch of .RND;1 files, just one
    >each, in everyone's top level directory. Each file is exactly 2 blocks
    >long. A dump shows just random binary values. So, true to its name, it
    >does look like random data.
    >
    >We connect to the system with both telnet and SSH from Windows systems
    >(PuTTY and CRT) and from other VMS system. There is even some SET HOST
    >activity still going on as we continue to support LAT.
    >
    >I seem to recall from somewhere in the past the Rdb created these
    >files as pat of its normal operations. I also know that SSH likes to
    >have a random seed here an there. I've Googled this condition but did
    >not find anything definite.
    >
    >This is mostly curiosity as to where they come from. Any ideas?


    We have traced this so far the SSL connections during times of high
    activity and concurrent SSL connections. Since the SSL files are SSL
    related, there's probably a bug in the code that handles this part of
    the connection.

  3. Re: What creates .RND files?

    On Sep 25, 3:20*pm, VMS is Virus Free wrote:
    > On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:58:42 -0500, VMS is Virus Free
    >
    >
    >
    > wrote:
    > >We have a VMS V8.3 system running Multinet and Oracle Rdb. Other than
    > >Rdb, it is pretty much a run-of-the-mill VMS system. When analyzing
    > >our disks, we found there to be a bunch of .RND;1 files, just one
    > >each, in everyone's top level directory. Each file is exactly 2 blocks
    > >long. A dump shows just random binary values. So, true to its name, it
    > >does look like random data.

    >
    > >We connect to the system with both telnet and SSH from Windows systems
    > >(PuTTY and CRT) and from other VMS system. There is even some SET HOST
    > >activity still going on as we continue to support LAT.

    >
    > >I seem to recall from somewhere in the past the Rdb created these
    > >files as pat of its normal operations. I also know that SSH likes to
    > >have a random seed here an there. I've Googled this condition but did
    > >not find anything definite.

    >
    > >This is mostly curiosity as to where they come from. Any ideas?

    >
    > We have traced this so far the SSL connections during times of high
    > activity and concurrent SSL connections. Since the SSL files are SSL
    > related, there's probably a bug in the code that handles this part of
    > the connection.


    Key generation in general (PGP, OpenSSL) involves either reading in
    random input or using a random input file. Perhaps this is debris
    from that activity.

    I have a 2-block long file under my login directory on our (OpenVMS
    V7.3-2, TCPIP V5.4 eco 7) system called [.ASRG-OPENSSL]RANDOM.RND;1
    created in 2002. Thats about the time we were playing with OpenSSL
    for a project.

  4. Re: What creates .RND files?

    On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:27:23 -0700 (PDT), Rich Jordan
    wrote:

    >On Sep 25, 3:20*pm, VMS is Virus Free wrote:
    >> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:58:42 -0500, VMS is Virus Free
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> wrote:
    >> >We have a VMS V8.3 system running Multinet and Oracle Rdb. Other than
    >> >Rdb, it is pretty much a run-of-the-mill VMS system. When analyzing
    >> >our disks, we found there to be a bunch of .RND;1 files, just one
    >> >each, in everyone's top level directory. Each file is exactly 2 blocks
    >> >long. A dump shows just random binary values. So, true to its name, it
    >> >does look like random data.

    >>
    >> >We connect to the system with both telnet and SSH from Windows systems
    >> >(PuTTY and CRT) and from other VMS system. There is even some SET HOST
    >> >activity still going on as we continue to support LAT.

    >>
    >> >I seem to recall from somewhere in the past the Rdb created these
    >> >files as pat of its normal operations. I also know that SSH likes to
    >> >have a random seed here an there. I've Googled this condition but did
    >> >not find anything definite.

    >>
    >> >This is mostly curiosity as to where they come from. Any ideas?

    >>
    >> We have traced this so far the SSL connections during times of high
    >> activity and concurrent SSL connections. Since the SSL files are SSL
    >> related, there's probably a bug in the code that handles this part of
    >> the connection.

    >
    >Key generation in general (PGP, OpenSSL) involves either reading in
    >random input or using a random input file. Perhaps this is debris
    >from that activity.
    >
    >I have a 2-block long file under my login directory on our (OpenVMS
    >V7.3-2, TCPIP V5.4 eco 7) system called [.ASRG-OPENSSL]RANDOM.RND;1
    >created in 2002. Thats about the time we were playing with OpenSSL
    >for a project.


    What we have found so far:

    - Quiet times, one job: one RND file gets created and cleaned up
    - Busy, multiple concurrent jobs: .RND files get left behind (or lost)

    We have not yet traced down the cause; we only know that heavy
    activity with SSL connections causes the issue. It gets stranger when
    the .RND;1 file gets up to .RND;32767.

    Tought to find; easy to provide load, hard to simulate randomness of
    heavy load.

    A work in progres...

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