On Sep 22, 2:34 pm, Christopher Lusardi wrote:
> If I forgot to enter a few letters in an extremely long command at the
> Vax prompt I am forced to do the following. I have to use the up arrow
> key to recall the previous command. I then use the left arrow key to
> go to the start of the error that I typed. I then retype the entire
> rest of the command. This takes a long time! Is there an easier way to
> insert blanks in a previous command and then begin typing the
> forgotten letters in the newly created blanks.
>
> The following sequence "control I" worked once for me. It probably was
> an accident.
> :-)
>
> The top left side of my show system command says VaxVMS V5.5...
>
> Chris


Chris,

I do not have a VAX/VMS 5.5 system to check this on, but depending
upon your terminal, you should be able to reset the terminal width
using SET TERMINAL/WIDTH=132. The cursor editing keys will then be
usable for a longer line.

Personally, I would create a command file and edit it using the
editor. It is safer, and usable beyond the present login session.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

In article <9d7c724a-1af6-490e-87fb-209b57ddb05d@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Christopher Lusardi writes:
>If I forgot to enter a few letters in an extremely long command at the
>Vax prompt I am forced to do the following. I have to use the up arrow
>key to recall the previous command. I then use the left arrow key to
>go to the start of the error that I typed. I then retype the entire
>rest of the command. This takes a long time! Is there an easier way to
>insert blanks in a previous command and then begin typing the
>forgotten letters in the newly created blanks.
>
>The following sequence "control I" worked once for me. It probably was
>an accident.
>:-)
>
>The top left side of my show system command says VaxVMS V5.5...
>
>Chris


Recall; ctrl H (goes to beginning of line); arrow-key to where you need
to add charaters; ctrl-A to insert; enter characters; carriage-return to
enter amended command.

Example:

$ ! this is a real long command line but I forgot to add two characters
$
$ ! this is a real long command line but I forgot to add two characters
-------------------------------cursor here ----------------------------^
type ctrl-H
$ ! this is a real long command line but I forgot to add two characters
--^-----cursor here
type arrows to move cursor
$ ! this is a real long command line but I forgot to add two characters
------------------^-----cursor here
ctrl-A to insert
$ ! this is a really long command line but I forgot to add two characters
type carrage-return

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

.... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
notice, disclaimer and quotations.

Christopher Lusardi wrote:
> If I forgot to enter a few letters in an extremely long command at the
> Vax prompt I am forced to do the following. I have to use the up arrow
> key to recall the previous command. I then use the left arrow key to
> go to the start of the error that I typed. I then retype the entire
> rest of the command. This takes a long time! Is there an easier way to
> insert blanks in a previous command and then begin typing the
> forgotten letters in the newly created blanks.
>
> The following sequence "control I" worked once for me. It probably was
> an accident.
> :-)
>
> The top left side of my show system command says VaxVMS V5.5...
>
> Chris

Personaly, I always have SET TERM/INSERT in my login.com...
Or (if on another system) use when needed.

Christopher Lusardi wrote:
> If I forgot to enter a few letters in an extremely long command at the
> Vax prompt I am forced to do the following.

If the command exceeds one line on the screen, then VMS is pretty bad at
handling it. You need to erase characters from the end until the cursor
moves to the last character on the line you need to edit. Then delete
enough characters at end of line to make room for insertion. Then use
the left arrow to move the cursor (without deleting) to the area where
you need to insert characters, A to start inserting, insert your
two characfters, then E to get to end of line, and then retype the
complete remainder of the line which you had to erase.

Old cisco switches have better command line editing than VMS.


SET TERM/WIDTH=132 will allow you to recall the command on a longer line
(132 instead of 80) and this makes its editing easier. Once done, you
can set term/width=80 again.

VMS 5.5 lacked certain recall buffer functionality which was added later
on. On recent versions of VMS, you could RECALL/output=myfile.txt then
edit myfile.txt and then RECALL/input=myfile.txt which would reload
the recall buffer with your corrected command.

In article <9d7c724a-1af6-490e-87fb-209b57ddb05d@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Christopher Lusardi writes:
> If I forgot to enter a few letters in an extremely long command at the
> Vax prompt I am forced to do the following. I have to use the up arrow
> key to recall the previous command. I then use the left arrow key to
> go to the start of the error that I typed. I then retype the entire
> rest of the command. This takes a long time! Is there an easier way to
> insert blanks in a previous command and then begin typing the
> forgotten letters in the newly created blanks.

You need the all-important control-A. Or "set terminal/insert". Or
both.

On 23 sep, 21:29, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
Koehler) wrote:
> In article <9d7c724a-1af6-490e-87fb-209b57ddb...@b38g2000prf.googlegroups..com>, Christopher Lusardi writes:
>
> > If I forgot to enter a few letters in an extremely long command at the
> > Vax prompt I am forced to do the following. I have to use the up arrow
> > key to recall the previous command. I then use the left arrow key to
> > go to the start of the error that I typed. I then retype the entire
> > rest of the command. This takes a long time! Is there an easier way to
> > insert blanks in a previous command and then begin typing the
> > forgotten letters in the newly created blanks.
>
> * *You need the all-important control-A. *Or "set terminal/insert".*Or
> * *both.

I prefer control-A, control-H and control-E.
Most importantly, control-R to chack the result beforehitting
return :-)

JF Mezei wrote:
> Christopher Lusardi wrote:
>
>>If I forgot to enter a few letters in an extremely long command at the
>>Vax prompt I am forced to do the following.
>
>
> If the command exceeds one line on the screen, then VMS is pretty bad at
> handling it. You need to erase characters from the end until the cursor
> moves to the last character on the line you need to edit. Then delete
> enough characters at end of line to make room for insertion. Then use
> the left arrow to move the cursor (without deleting) to the area where
> you need to insert characters, A to start inserting, insert your
> two characfters, then E to get to end of line, and then retype the
> complete remainder of the line which you had to erase.
>
> Old cisco switches have better command line editing than VMS.
>
>
> SET TERM/WIDTH=132 will allow you to recall the command on a longer line
> (132 instead of 80) and this makes its editing easier. Once done, you
> can set term/width=80 again.
>
> VMS 5.5 lacked certain recall buffer functionality which was added later
> on. On recent versions of VMS, you could RECALL/output=myfile.txt then
> edit myfile.txt and then RECALL/input=myfile.txt which would reload
> the recall buffer with your corrected command.

Another method, if you are on a terminal that supports cut&paste (VT420,
VT520, DECterm, some VT emulators), is to recall and erase as per JF's
instructions, and then cut & paste the remainder of the line (if it's
still on the screen!) But be careful about pasting a carriage return
if there is more than one remaining line! (and be sure to go to end
of line before pasting, or it will try to insert the remainder in the
middle.)

If you have a wide enough screen (works with DECterms and Kermit-95,
I don't know about other emulators), /width=132 isn't the upper limit.
I think you can go as wide as 255 characters, but if you set the
terminal width wider than the physical screen width, you'll need to
deal with left-right scrolling as well.


Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)!

--
John Santos
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
781-861-0670 ext 539

In article <5UeCk.1038$MN3.360@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, John Santos writes:
>
> Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)!
>

I've filed multiple formal enhancement requests for this and other DCL
deficiencies over the years.

I've never even had any clarification back from anyone other than the
support people who logged the requests.

I personally put things like this into the "will never happen" category.

I switch between Linux and VMS on a daily basis and DCL is really dated
compared to the capabilities in bash. Yes, I know that there's an older
version of bash available for VMS, but we are talking about the
capabilities of the native CLI environment here, which for VMS is DCL.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

"Simon Clubley" wrote in
message news:92cjqbPYDj7K@eisner.encompasserve.org...
> In article <5UeCk.1038$MN3.360@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, John Santos
> writes:
>>
>> Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)!
>>
>
> I've filed multiple formal enhancement requests for this and other DCL
> deficiencies over the years.
>
> I've never even had any clarification back from anyone other than the
> support people who logged the requests.
>
> I personally put things like this into the "will never happen" category.
>
> I switch between Linux and VMS on a daily basis and DCL is really dated
> compared to the capabilities in bash. Yes, I know that there's an older
> version of bash available for VMS, but we are talking about the
> capabilities of the native CLI environment here, which for VMS is DCL.
>

I agree. HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment.

It's another example of OpenVMS falling behind, even Windows has a better
CLI (PowerShell).

John Vottero wrote:

> I agree. HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment.
>
> It's another example of OpenVMS falling behind, even Windows has a better
> CLI (PowerShell).


As I recall, the problem with the line editing is with the terminal
driver which would need a major update to handle command lines longer
than the screen width.

I am not sure that this requires a "replace DCL".

In article <48da6b62$0$12361$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
> John Vottero wrote:
>
>> I agree. HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment.
>>
>> It's another example of OpenVMS falling behind, even Windows has a better
>> CLI (PowerShell).
>
>
> As I recall, the problem with the line editing is with the terminal
> driver which would need a major update to handle command lines longer
> than the screen width.
>

Fine, so fix the problem within DCL if there's no-one left within VMS
Engineering who can fix the driver.

> I am not sure that this requires a "replace DCL".
>

Other missing features not in DCL, but in bash:

Automatic retention of command history, including the automatic merging of
just the new commands from that session into the command history file.

Tab based filename completion.

Command history searching is much more elegant in bash. Hit Ctrl-R, type a
few characters found anywhere in the command, which starts an immediate
search through the command history, and just keep hitting Ctrl-R until the
required command is found.

No way to search the help library. (Yes, I know that's not really a bash
function, but on VMS, HELP is considered to be part of DCL.)

These don't require a "replace DCL" action, but they are the things that
I find _extremely_ frustrating when switching from a bash shell to a DCL
session.

However, providing an additional CLI/scripting environment with VMS would
allow the additional types of features seen in other environments, but for
now I would be happy with just the above been added to DCL.

Simon.

PS: While I'm on my wishlist, a HP supported Python on VMS, that I can log
support calls against, would be _very_ nice.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

On 24 Sep 2008 08:36:01 -0500,
clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote:

>In article <5UeCk.1038$MN3.360@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, John Santos writes:
>>
>> Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)!
>>
>
>I've filed multiple formal enhancement requests for this and other DCL
>deficiencies over the years.
>
>I've never even had any clarification back from anyone other than the
>support people who logged the requests.
>
>I personally put things like this into the "will never happen" category.
>
>I switch between Linux and VMS on a daily basis and DCL is really dated
>compared to the capabilities in bash. Yes, I know that there's an older
>version of bash available for VMS, but we are talking about the
>capabilities of the native CLI environment here, which for VMS is DCL.
>
>Simon.

If you are on Windows, XLNT (http://www.advsyscon.com) is a decent DCL
CLI for Windows. If the VMS folks would at least do that much for
normal DCL on VMS, it would be a great step forward.

On Sep 24, 12:28*pm, JF Mezei wrote:
> John Vottero wrote:
> > I agree. *HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment.
>
> > It's another example of OpenVMS falling behind, even Windows has a better
> > CLI (PowerShell).
>
> As I recall, the problem with the line editing is with the terminal
> driver which would need a major update to handle command lines longer
> than the screen width.
>
> I am not sure that this requires a "replace DCL".

Search comp.os.vms on Google Groups for

TERMINAL DRIVER LONG LINES

and you'll set that it *is* the terminal driver.

AEF

In article , clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:
>
> Automatic retention of command history, including the automatic merging of
> just the new commands from that session into the command history file.

Command history retention in files has security implications.

>
> Tab based filename completion.

Yep.

>
> No way to search the help library. (Yes, I know that's not really a bash
> function, but on VMS, HELP is considered to be part of DCL.)

With hierachical help, searching is not as often needed. I find
VMS HELP much easier than man -k when I need to find something and
don't know where it is. I keep trying to learn "info" for just
that reason.

> These don't require a "replace DCL" action, but they are the things that
> I find _extremely_ frustrating when switching from a bash shell to a DCL
> session.
>
> However, providing an additional CLI/scripting environment with VMS would
> allow the additional types of features seen in other environments, but for
> now I would be happy with just the above been added to DCL.

DCL on VAXen was pretty well hacked up. Porting it to Alpha was a
major piece of work. I think VMS Engineering should freeze DCL for
upward compatability and create a new CLI.

And please don't base it on cryptic languages like C.

In article <5a1490b0-336e-4228-bae3-d003bd8d5de5@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes:
>
> and you'll set that it *is* the terminal driver.

The terminal driver only provides single-line editting. Any
program that doesn't take detailed control of the terminal can
use it. DCL and SMG provide that plus multi-line recall. Any
program using SMG can make use of that, but DCL doesn't use SMG.

And DCL could provide it's own built in editor with much more
power than the terminal driver. After all, EDT and TPU do.

But I think DCL should be frozen and VMS should move on.

Simon Clubley wrote:
> In article <5UeCk.1038$MN3.360@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, John Santos writes:
>> Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)!
>>
>
> I've filed multiple formal enhancement requests for this and other DCL
> deficiencies over the years.
>
> I've never even had any clarification back from anyone other than the
> support people who logged the requests.
>
> I personally put things like this into the "will never happen" category.
>
> I switch between Linux and VMS on a daily basis and DCL is really dated
> compared to the capabilities in bash. Yes, I know that there's an older
> version of bash available for VMS, but we are talking about the
> capabilities of the native CLI environment here, which for VMS is DCL.
>
> Simon.
>

Please remember that DCL IS a Command Line Interpreter and NOT really a
programming language! I know it has been used to write applications but
it's certainly not the primary purpose. There are certainly better
tools available for writing most applications.

If you want to write applications in your CLI, try Solaris or Linux.

I think you would probably be happier with COBOL!

John Vottero wrote:
> "Simon Clubley" wrote in
> message news:92cjqbPYDj7K@eisner.encompasserve.org...
>> In article <5UeCk.1038$MN3.360@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, John Santos
>> writes:
>>>
>>> Sure wish they would fix this (editing wide lines)!
>>>
>>
>> I've filed multiple formal enhancement requests for this and other DCL
>> deficiencies over the years.
>>
>> I've never even had any clarification back from anyone other than the
>> support people who logged the requests.
>>
>> I personally put things like this into the "will never happen" category.
>>
>> I switch between Linux and VMS on a daily basis and DCL is really dated
>> compared to the capabilities in bash. Yes, I know that there's an older
>> version of bash available for VMS, but we are talking about the
>> capabilities of the native CLI environment here, which for VMS is DCL.
>>
>
> I agree. HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment.
>

Have you tried BASIC? Or COBOL?

JF Mezei wrote:
> John Vottero wrote:
>
>> I agree. HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment.
>>
>> It's another example of OpenVMS falling behind, even Windows has a better
>> CLI (PowerShell).
>
>
> As I recall, the problem with the line editing is with the terminal
> driver which would need a major update to handle command lines longer
> than the screen width.
>
> I am not sure that this requires a "replace DCL".
>

I'm quite sure you are right! Any command that cannot be fully
expressed in 132 characters should probably be placed in a .COM file and
executed from the file.

AEF wrote:
> On Sep 24, 12:28 pm, JF Mezei wrote:
>> John Vottero wrote:
>>> I agree. HP needs to replace DCL with a modern CLI/scripting environment.
>>> It's another example of OpenVMS falling behind, even Windows has a better
>>> CLI (PowerShell).
>> As I recall, the problem with the line editing is with the terminal
>> driver which would need a major update to handle command lines longer
>> than the screen width.
>>
>> I am not sure that this requires a "replace DCL".
>
> Search comp.os.vms on Google Groups for
>
> TERMINAL DRIVER LONG LINES
>
> and you'll set that it *is* the terminal driver.
>
> AEF

Since the available terminals generally do not support more than 132
characters per line, there is little point in supporting command line
editing for longer lines!