How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ? - VMS

This is a discussion on How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ? - VMS ; As in the subject... I have a source file x.x and a copy of that file somewhere else. x.x is set to NOBACKUP I *know* the copy of the file was *not* copied using BACKUP/IGNORE=NOBACKUP because I did it purposefully ...

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Thread: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?

  1. How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?

    As in the subject...

    I have a source file x.x and a copy of that file somewhere else.

    x.x is set to NOBACKUP

    I *know* the copy of the file was *not* copied using BACKUP/IGNORE=NOBACKUP
    because I did it purposefully
    %BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP, X.X data not copied, file marked NOBACKUP

    But a DIR/FULL does not show any difference between the 2 files.

    The data in the file is cryptic and there is no way for me to know (by
    looking at the contents of the file) if the copy of the file contains valid
    data or not. I would have expected that such a file would just contain a
    header and just nulls inside, but this is not the case.

    How do I tell the copy of the file has nothing good inside ?
    Don't ask me to compare the 2 files. Let`s say I don`t have the oriiginal
    file anymore. What information in the file header or elsewhere says the file
    does not contain any data (as the BACKUP message says) ?

    Thanks !

    --
    Syltrem
    http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS information and help, en français)



  2. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up withoutignore=nobackup ?

    On Sep 18, 1:33*pm, "Syltrem" wrote:
    > As in the subject...
    >
    > I have a source file x.x and a copy of that file somewhere else.
    >
    > x.x is set to NOBACKUP
    >
    > I *know* the copy of the file was *not* copied using BACKUP/IGNORE=NOBACKUP
    > because I did it purposefully
    > %BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP, X.X data not copied, file marked NOBACKUP
    >
    > But a DIR/FULL does not show any difference between the 2 files.
    >
    > The data in the file is cryptic and there is no way for me to know (by
    > looking at the contents of the file) if the copy of the file contains valid
    > data or not. I would have expected that such a file would just contain a
    > header and just nulls inside, but this is not the case.
    >
    > How do I tell the copy of the file has nothing good inside ?
    > Don't ask me to compare the 2 files. Let`s say I don`t have the oriiginal
    > file anymore. What information in the file header or elsewhere says the file
    > does not contain any data (as the BACKUP message says) ?


    This one is easy: the copied file has garbage in it. BACKUP told
    you so. All DIRECTORY tells you is, essentially, about the file
    organization and size, nothing about its contents (data).

    The reason for setting a file NOBACKUP is to avoid spending time
    coping the contents of a file that are known will not be usable,
    e.g.,
    a pagefile or swapfile, or indeed, certain kinds of database file
    (which is why databases include their own backup utilities).

    You *must* use Backup/Ignore=NoBackup if you want to copy
    the data in a file rather than just allocating space for it.

    -Ken

  3. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?


    wrote in message
    news:faa0e799-b226-421d-b64a-e965fb55e451@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
    On Sep 18, 1:33 pm, "Syltrem" wrote:
    > As in the subject...
    >
    > I have a source file x.x and a copy of that file somewhere else.
    >
    > x.x is set to NOBACKUP
    >
    > I *know* the copy of the file was *not* copied using
    > BACKUP/IGNORE=NOBACKUP
    > because I did it purposefully
    > %BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP, X.X data not copied, file marked NOBACKUP
    >
    > But a DIR/FULL does not show any difference between the 2 files.
    >
    > The data in the file is cryptic and there is no way for me to know (by
    > looking at the contents of the file) if the copy of the file contains
    > valid
    > data or not. I would have expected that such a file would just contain a
    > header and just nulls inside, but this is not the case.
    >
    > How do I tell the copy of the file has nothing good inside ?
    > Don't ask me to compare the 2 files. Let`s say I don`t have the oriiginal
    > file anymore. What information in the file header or elsewhere says the
    > file
    > does not contain any data (as the BACKUP message says) ?
    >
    > This one is easy: the copied file has garbage in it. BACKUP told
    > you so. All DIRECTORY tells you is, essentially, about the file
    > organization and size, nothing about its contents (data).
    >
    > The reason for setting a file NOBACKUP is to avoid spending time
    > coping the contents of a file that are known will not be usable,
    > e.g.,
    > a pagefile or swapfile, or indeed, certain kinds of database file
    > (which is why databases include their own backup utilities).
    >
    > You *must* use Backup/Ignore=NoBackup if you want to copy
    > the data in a file rather than just allocating space for it.
    >
    > -Ken


    Hi Ken

    I know all of that.
    If by mistake I forgot the /IGNORE=NOBACKUP, I can I tell I did so ?

    That's what I want to know.
    As you sais there is garbage in my file. But the original file also contains
    data that looks like garbege to human eyes so I cannot tell just by looking
    at the file's contents.

    Is there a flag somewhere in the copied file that says "this file's content
    is garbage".

    Thanks
    Syltrem



  4. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup?

    Syltrem wrote:
    > As in the subject...
    >
    > I have a source file x.x and a copy of that file somewhere else.
    >
    > x.x is set to NOBACKUP
    >
    > I *know* the copy of the file was *not* copied using BACKUP/IGNORE=NOBACKUP
    > because I did it purposefully
    > %BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP, X.X data not copied, file marked NOBACKUP
    >
    > But a DIR/FULL does not show any difference between the 2 files.
    >
    > The data in the file is cryptic and there is no way for me to know (by
    > looking at the contents of the file) if the copy of the file contains valid
    > data or not. I would have expected that such a file would just contain a
    > header and just nulls inside, but this is not the case.
    >
    > How do I tell the copy of the file has nothing good inside ?
    > Don't ask me to compare the 2 files. Let`s say I don`t have the oriiginal
    > file anymore. What information in the file header or elsewhere says the file
    > does not contain any data (as the BACKUP message says) ?
    >
    > Thanks !
    >


    $ BACKUP /LIST=MUMBLE.LIS MUMBLE.BCK/SAVESET
    $ SEARCH MUMBLE.LIS X.X

  5. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up withoutignore=nobackup ?

    On Sep 18, 2:06*pm, "Syltrem" wrote:
    > wrote in message
    >
    > news:faa0e799-b226-421d-b64a-e965fb55e451@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
    > On Sep 18, 1:33 pm, "Syltrem" wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > As in the subject...

    >
    > > I have a source file x.x and a copy of that file somewhere else.

    >
    > > x.x is set to NOBACKUP

    >
    > > I *know* the copy of the file was *not* copied using
    > > BACKUP/IGNORE=NOBACKUP
    > > because I did it purposefully
    > > %BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP, X.X data not copied, file marked NOBACKUP

    >
    > > But a DIR/FULL does not show any difference between the 2 files.

    >
    > > The data in the file is cryptic and there is no way for me to know (by
    > > looking at the contents of the file) if the copy of the file contains
    > > valid
    > > data or not. I would have expected that such a file would just contain a
    > > header and just nulls inside, but this is not the case.

    >
    > > How do I tell the copy of the file has nothing good inside ?
    > > Don't ask me to compare the 2 files. Let`s say I don`t have the oriiginal
    > > file anymore. What information in the file header or elsewhere says the
    > > file
    > > does not contain any data (as the BACKUP message says) ?

    >
    > > This one is easy: the copied file has garbage in it. *BACKUP told
    > > you so. *All DIRECTORY tells you is, essentially, about the file
    > > organization and size, nothing about its contents (data).

    >
    > > The reason for setting a file NOBACKUP is to avoid spending time
    > > coping the contents of a file that are known will not be usable,
    > > e.g.,
    > > a pagefile or swapfile, or indeed, certain kinds of database file
    > > (which is why databases include their own backup utilities).

    >
    > > You *must* use Backup/Ignore=NoBackup if you want to copy
    > > the data in a file rather than just allocating space for it.

    >
    > > * *-Ken

    >
    > Hi Ken
    >
    > I know all of that.
    > If by mistake I forgot the /IGNORE=NOBACKUP, I can I tell I did so ?
    >
    > That's what I want to know.
    > As you sais there is garbage in my file. But the original file also contains
    > data that looks like garbege to human eyes so I cannot tell just by looking
    > at the file's contents.
    >
    > Is there a flag somewhere in the copied file that says "this file's content
    > is garbage".


    No, I don't believe there is any (external) way to tell.
    Certainly, there's no flag.

    -Ken


  6. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup?

    Syltrem wrote:

    > I *know* the copy of the file was *not* copied using BACKUP/IGNORE=NOBACKUP
    > because I did it purposefully
    > %BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP, X.X data not copied, file marked NOBACKUP


    This would be a serious bug. I did a disk to disk backup/image a couple
    days ago, and checking the log, I got no %BACKUP-I-NOBACKUP messages

    I had:
    $backup/image/ignore=(interlock,nobackup)/init/noalias/record -
    /progress_report=300 $disk4 $10$dqa0:

    I had warnings about files being opened for write, but none about the
    files marked nobackup.


    > But a DIR/FULL does not show any difference between the 2 files.


    That is correct. Restoring a file that was marked "nobackup" results in
    a file being created with the same attributes, including allocations and
    blocks used but with unusable data inside.



    > How do I tell the copy of the file has nothing good inside ?


    You would have to look at the backup logs or the save set to see if
    /ignore=nobackup was specified when the data was backed up.


    Question:

    If I backup/image/ignore=nobackup disk1: disk2:[000000]disk1.save/save

    and then backup/image disk2:[000000]disk1.save/save disk3:

    Would I need to add a /ignore=nobackup so that the restore operation
    would also ignore the nobackup bit in the saveset and copy the data from
    the saveset to the disk ?

  7. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup?

    Syltrem wrote:

    > Is there a flag somewhere in the copied file that says "this file's content
    > is garbage".


    Nop. You would need to look at the logs of the backup to see what was
    done and if the data was copied or not.

  8. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up withoutignore=nobackup ?

    On Sep 18, 6:30*pm, Malcolm Dunnett wrote:
    > Syltrem wrote:
    >
    > > I know all of that.
    > > If by mistake I forgot the /IGNORE=NOBACKUP, I can I tell I did so ?

    >
    > > That's what I want to know.

    >
    > I think the general answer is "you can't".
    >
    > You could set the volumes to have highwater marking enabled, then the
    > "junk" file would contain all zeros, However that can slow down file
    > extend operations considerably.


    Highwater marking CAN hurt, but for many 'normal' operations it is
    just about transparent.
    For certain applications if it too harsh. File extends are free.. but
    that first random access write...


    > > Is there a flag somewhere in the copied file that says "this file's content
    > > is garbage".

    > No.


    Well yes, in the backup container.
    Do you still have the container?
    Backup / list [/full] does not show it, but it knows it.

    I just hacked up a quick tool to display that flag.
    I don't pretend to understand a backup container (like do I worry
    about blocksize?), but this first part seemed easy.
    Code appended below.

    The actual display of the filenames is left as an excercise for the
    reader. SMOP! :-)
    ..
    For now, I just merged the tool output with BACKUP/LIST output

    $ pipe mcr sys$login:list_backup tmp.bck > tmp.flags
    $ backup/list=tmp.lis tmp.bck/save
    $ create merge.pl
    $f = shift or die "need flag file";
    open F,"<$f" or die "Could not open $f\n$!";
    while () {
    if (/FILE,/) {
    $flag[$file++] = (/HEADONLY/) ? 1 : 0;
    }
    }
    $f = shift or die "need backup list";
    open F,"<$f" or die "Could not open $f\n$!";
    $file = 0;
    while () {
    if (/^\[/) {
    print 'HEADONLY '.$_ if $flag[$file++];
    }
    }
    print "$file files.\n";

    $ perl merge.pl tmp.flags tmp.lis
    HEADONLY [HEIN]ORACLE_10GR2_CHECK_QUOTA.COM;4
    9 6-MAY-2008 12:04
    HEADONLY [HEIN]ORACLE_10G_PRE_INSTALL_CHECK.COM;1
    33 5-MAY-2008 18:24
    7 files.

    Cheers,
    Hein.

    --------------------------- list_backup -----------------

    #include
    #include
    #include
    #include
    #include

    #define DNS ".BCK"

    int SYS$CRMPSC(), SYS$OPEN();


    char *types[] = {"NULL","SUMM","VOLU","FILE","VBN ",
    "PHYS","LBN ","FID ","EXT_","567_", "????"};

    main (int argc, char *argv[]) {

    struct { char *lo; char *hi; } retadr = {0,0};

    struct FAB fab;

    struct BRHDEF *brh;
    struct BBHDEF *bbh;

    int stat, max_type;

    if (2 != argc) return 16;

    fab = cc$rms_fab;
    fab.fab$v_ufo = 1;
    fab.fab$l_fna = argv[1];
    fab.fab$b_fns = strlen( argv[1] );
    fab.fab$l_dna = DNS;
    fab.fab$b_dns = sizeof DNS;

    stat = SYS$OPEN ( &fab );
    if (!(stat&1)) return stat;

    stat = SYS$CRMPSC ( &retadr, &retadr, 0, SEC$M_EXPREG, 0, 0, 0, fab.fab
    $l_stv, 0, 0, 0, 0 );
    if (!(stat&1)) return stat;

    brh = (struct BRHDEF *) (retadr.lo + BBH$K_LENGTH) ;

    max_type = sizeof ( types ) / sizeof ( char * ) - 1;

    while ( brh < (struct BRHDEF *) retadr.hi ) {
    int rtype = brh->BRH$W_RTYPE;
    if (rtype > max_type) rtype = max_type;
    printf ("%08x, %04x, %s, %s\n", brh, brh->BRH$W_RSIZE,
    types[rtype],
    (brh->BRH$R_FILL_5_. BRH$R_FILL_6_.BRH$V_HEADONLY)?
    "HEADONLY": "");
    if (0 == rtype) break;
    brh = (struct BRHDEF *) ((char *) brh + BRH$K_LENGTH + brh->BRH
    $W_RSIZE);
    }
    }





  9. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?

    In article , Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes:
    >On Sep 18, 6:30=A0pm, Malcolm Dunnett wrote:
    >> Syltrem wrote:
    >>
    >> > I know all of that.
    >> > If by mistake I forgot the /IGNORE=3DNOBACKUP, I can I tell I did so ?

    >>
    >> > That's what I want to know.

    >>
    >> I think the general answer is "you can't".
    >>
    >> You could set the volumes to have highwater marking enabled, then the
    >> "junk" file would contain all zeros, However that can slow down file
    >> extend operations considerably.

    >
    >Highwater marking CAN hurt, but for many 'normal' operations it is
    >just about transparent.
    >For certain applications if it too harsh. File extends are free.. but
    >that first random access write...
    >
    >
    >> > Is there a flag somewhere in the copied file that says "this file's con=

    >tent
    >> > is garbage".

    > > No.

    >
    >Well yes, in the backup container.
    >Do you still have the container?
    >Backup / list [/full] does not show it, but it knows it.
    >
    >I just hacked up a quick tool to display that flag.
    >I don't pretend to understand a backup container (like do I worry
    >about blocksize?), but this first part seemed easy.
    >Code appended below.
    >
    >The actual display of the filenames is left as an excercise for the
    >reader. SMOP! :-)


    Speaking of exercises for the reader, reading articles posted to usenet
    with quoted-printable is one hell of an exercise. I remember days when
    I could read DCL code posted to usenet. This code is now usenot.

    Hein, what are you using for your newsreader?

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  10. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?

    In article , "Syltrem" writes:
    >
    > How do I tell the copy of the file has nothing good inside ?
    > Don't ask me to compare the 2 files. Let`s say I don`t have the oriiginal
    > file anymore. What information in the file header or elsewhere says the file
    > does not contain any data (as the BACKUP message says) ?


    If you copies the file/nobackup, then what is in the file is useless,
    unless the security settings on your system will allow you to use
    the new file to scavenge data from whatever was in those blocks
    before. Unless you happen to have been making and deleting lots of
    copies of the original file on the same disk, any resemblance between
    the data in the original and new is completly coincidental. Even if
    you have been making and deleting lots of copies the data wouldn't
    likely be where you expected it.

    BACKUP of a file marked /NOBACKUP, without overriding that, simply
    does not read the data blocks. The file header is all it has to read
    to create a matching file. If you had put it in a saveset instead of
    using BACKUP to copy the file, only the file header would actually be
    in the saveset.

    If you use COPY, however, /NOBACKUP is not relavent.


  11. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?

    In article , "Syltrem" writes:
    >
    > I know all of that.
    > If by mistake I forgot the /IGNORE=NOBACKUP, I can I tell I did so ?


    You'll have to look at the data with something that can tell it's not
    right.

    > Is there a flag somewhere in the copied file that says "this file's content
    > is garbage".


    No.

  12. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up withoutignore=nobackup ?

    On Sep 19, 7:03*am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > In article , Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes:
    > >Code appended below.
    > >The actual display of the filenames is left as an excercise for the
    > >reader. SMOP! *:-)

    >
    > Speaking of exercises for the reader, reading articles posted to usenet
    > with quoted-printable is one hell of an exercise. *I remember days when
    > I could read DCL code posted to usenet. *This code is now usenot.


    Oops sorry 'bout that. Looks good to me.
    Except that it indicates 'quoted text' for the last two lines with
    closing braces.

    I use groups.google.com, and used to use newsgroups through eisner as
    characted interface.
    I'll try to find an other reader to see what and how it comes accross
    wrong.
    I don't suppose you are interested in trying for example google groups
    to see if looks ok there.

    Hein.

  13. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?

    In article
    <32bda37a-b097-42cd-99e5-3dd654b6b815@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
    Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes:

    > On Sep 19, 7:03=A0am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > > In article
    > om>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes:
    > > >Code appended below.
    > > >The actual display of the filenames is left as an excercise for the
    > > >reader. SMOP! =A0:-)

    > >
    > > Speaking of exercises for the reader, reading articles posted to usenet
    > > with quoted-printable is one hell of an exercise. =A0I remember days when
    > > I could read DCL code posted to usenet. =A0This code is now usenot.

    >
    > Oops sorry 'bout that. Looks good to me.
    > Except that it indicates 'quoted text' for the last two lines with
    > closing braces.


    That's the problem---it looks good to YOU. Your reader is interpreting
    the quoted-printable stuff, so you don't see what it looks like in a
    text-based newsreader.

    I recommend NEWSRDR. It has an interface similar to VMS MAIL. It also
    lets you define keys (as does VMS MAIL). It is a character-cell based
    application (like VMS MAIL).

    I can sort of understand using quoted-printable when 8-bit characters
    are involved. However, in practice, just posting the raw 8-bit
    characters seems to work fine. ISO-Latin-8859-15 is probably assumed
    (one has to assume SOMETHING, since there is no one standard 8-bit
    encoding), but that is almost always a good assumption (and if not, you
    probably couldn't read it in any case).

    What really annoys me, though, is encoding 7-bit printable US-ASCII
    characters. What is the possible purpose of that? Instead of "=" we
    get "=3D" etc. For those of us who learned to type properly (at least
    VAXman and myself :-) ) and insert two spaces at the end of a sentence,
    instead of ". " we get ". =A0" when our posts are quoted. That's also
    an annoyance---not only folks posting quoted-printable stuff, but
    transforming perfectly good plain text to quoted-printable when quoting
    it.


  14. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without

    In article <32bda37a-b097-42cd-99e5-3dd654b6b815@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes:
    >
    > I use groups.google.com, and used to use newsgroups through eisner as
    > characted interface.
    > I'll try to find an other reader to see what and how it comes accross
    > wrong.
    > I don't suppose you are interested in trying for example google groups
    > to see if looks ok there.


    This message comes to you from Eisner using ANU News.

    I'm using the version of ANU News that Graham modified to support NNTP
    authentication and have a free account at news.sunsite.dk
    (http://dotsrc.org/usenet), which gives access to the comp.* hierarchy
    (and some others).

    A thread is on Eisner in the DECUSERVE_FORUM conference, topic 788.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

  15. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?

    In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:
    >In article
    ><32bda37a-b097-42cd-99e5-3dd654b6b815@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
    >Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes:
    >
    >> On Sep 19, 7:03=A0am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >> > In article
    >> om>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes:
    >> > >Code appended below.
    >> > >The actual display of the filenames is left as an excercise for the
    >> > >reader. SMOP! =A0:-)
    >> >
    >> > Speaking of exercises for the reader, reading articles posted to usenet
    >> > with quoted-printable is one hell of an exercise. =A0I remember days when
    >> > I could read DCL code posted to usenet. =A0This code is now usenot.

    >>
    >> Oops sorry 'bout that. Looks good to me.
    >> Except that it indicates 'quoted text' for the last two lines with
    >> closing braces.

    >
    >That's the problem---it looks good to YOU. Your reader is interpreting
    >the quoted-printable stuff, so you don't see what it looks like in a
    >text-based newsreader.
    >
    >I recommend NEWSRDR. It has an interface similar to VMS MAIL. It also
    >lets you define keys (as does VMS MAIL). It is a character-cell based
    >application (like VMS MAIL).
    >
    >I can sort of understand using quoted-printable when 8-bit characters
    >are involved. However, in practice, just posting the raw 8-bit
    >characters seems to work fine. ISO-Latin-8859-15 is probably assumed
    >(one has to assume SOMETHING, since there is no one standard 8-bit
    >encoding), but that is almost always a good assumption (and if not, you
    >probably couldn't read it in any case).


    Unfortunately, ISO-Latin-8859-15 is not always the assumed default set.
    I've been using Ubuntu linux on a laptop and I use it to access my VMS
    machines. It, unfortunately, uses UTF-8 as its default. However, I've
    found that:

    1 - screen works better than the basic gnome terminal app if accessing
    VMS.
    2 - you can changed the default character set in screen

    I have a .screenrc file with a few very basic defaults

    startup_message off
    defescape ^xx <= changes screen command escape from ^A to ^X
    defencoding ISO8859-15 \because I use ^A in VMS for toggling insert

    I now access VMS with $ screen ssh -p#### username@vmshost.domain from
    the gnome terminal and it works like a charm. Tough bit is using EDT.


    >What really annoys me, though, is encoding 7-bit printable US-ASCII
    >characters. What is the possible purpose of that? Instead of "=" we
    >get "=3D" etc. For those of us who learned to type properly (at least
    >VAXman and myself :-) ) and insert two spaces at the end of a sentence,
    >instead of ". " we get ". =A0" when our posts are quoted. That's also
    >an annoyance---not only folks posting quoted-printable stuff, but
    >transforming perfectly good plain text to quoted-printable when quoting
    >it.


    You can thank Miscreant Idiot Coding Rejects Outputting Specious Often
    Flawed Technology in a large part for that.

    I once started writing a decoder for q-p for incorporation into NEWSRDR
    but then I decided it wasn't worth the effort.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  16. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?

    In article <00A7FDE1.0A74FF45@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-
    @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:

    > I once started writing a decoder for q-p for incorporation into NEWSRDR
    > but then I decided it wasn't worth the effort.


    On my to-do list is writing an EDT macro for such decoding.


  17. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup ?


    "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" a écrit dans le
    message de news:
    dc03edcc-4bff-4eac-9a4f-fb88678ae220...oglegroups.com...
    On Sep 18, 6:30 pm, Malcolm Dunnett wrote:
    > > Is there a flag somewhere in the copied file that says "this file's
    > > content
    > > is garbage".

    > No.
    > >
    > > Well yes, in the backup container.
    > > Do you still have the container?
    > > Backup / list [/full] does not show it, but it knows it.
    > >
    > > I just hacked up a quick tool to display that flag.



    Thanks for spending time on this, but I used backup to move the file from
    disk to disk. No saveset.
    It appears like the file is bad (well that's not actually proven), but
    there's no way for me to tell. And others in this ng agree with that.

    I tried to find some recognizable pattern in the file that would tell if the
    data inside is good or not, but it is not conclusive.
    Some good files do not show the pattern and yet are usable.

    Point is, I always use /IGNORE=NOBACKP to move these files around. There's a
    problem with the software reading the copied files, and I cannot prove that
    the data is good. The program does not tell wheter it doesn't like the data
    in a specific file (there are a dozen of them), it just crashes. We donèt
    know why. So obviously they say that my file is probably bad.

    Is that a problem with the file, ? I don't know.

    I don't think there`s a way out of this.

    The worst thing is that after trying the operation a 3rd time, it succeeded.
    Did I really forget /INGORE=NOBACKUP 2 times ?
    Everything is possible, I guess, but there`s no way to tell if I did or not.

    Thanks for your thoughts.
    Syltrem



  18. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up without ignore=nobackup?

    Syltrem wrote:
    > The worst thing is that after trying the operation a 3rd time, it succeeded.
    > Did I really forget /INGORE=NOBACKUP 2 times ?
    > Everything is possible, I guess, but there`s no way to tell if I did or not.



    Is the /IGNORE a positional qualifier in backup ? Is it possible that
    placing it at the end would affect the destination and not the source ?

  19. Re: How can I tell a file marked nobackup was backed up withoutignore=nobackup ?

    On Sep 19, 3:02*pm, "Syltrem" wrote:
    > "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" a écrit dans le
    > message de news:
    > dc03edcc-4bff-4eac-9a4f-fb88678ae...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
    > On Sep 18, 6:30 pm, Malcolm Dunnett wrote:
    >
    > > > Is there a flag somewhere in the copied file that says "this file's
    > > > content
    > > > is garbage".

    > *> No.
    >
    > > > Well yes, in the backup container.
    > > > Do you still have the container?
    > > > Backup / list [/full] *does not show it, but it knows it.

    >
    > > > I just hacked up a quick tool to display that flag.

    >
    > Thanks for spending time on this, but I used backup to move the file from
    > disk to disk. No saveset.
    > It appears like the file is bad (well that's not actually proven), but
    > there's no way for me to tell. And others in this ng agree with that.
    >
    > I tried to find some recognizable pattern in the file that would tell if the
    > data inside is good or not, but it is not conclusive.
    > Some good files do not show the pattern and yet are usable.
    >
    > Point is, I always use /IGNORE=NOBACKP to move these files around. There's a
    > problem with the software reading the copied files, and I cannot prove that
    > the data is good. The program does not tell wheter it doesn't like the data
    > in a specific file (there are a dozen of them), it just crashes. We donèt
    > know why. So obviously they say that my file is probably bad.
    >
    > Is that a problem with the file, ? I don't know.
    >
    > I don't think there`s a way out of this.
    >
    > The worst thing is that after trying the operation a 3rd time, it succeeded.
    > Did I really forget /INGORE=NOBACKUP 2 times ?
    > Everything is possible, I guess, but there`s no way to tell if I did or not.
    >
    > Thanks for your thoughts.
    > Syltrem


    Isn't there something at the beginning of these files that's
    recognizable? Can you look at a dump of another version of the same
    type of file and see if the two look anything alike? Or have you tried
    this already (sorry if I missed it in the thread)?

    AEF


  20. getting rid of quoted printable

    In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de
    (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:

    > In article <00A7FDE1.0A74FF45@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-
    > @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >
    > > I once started writing a decoder for q-p for incorporation into NEWSRDR
    > > but then I decided it wasn't worth the effort.

    >
    > On my to-do list is writing an EDT macro for such decoding.


    Here it is. Put this in your EDTINI.EDT:

    ! kill quoted-printable
    DEFINE MACRO KQP
    FIND BUFFER KQP
    INSERT;s|=FC|ü|w
    INSERT;s|=DF|ß|w
    INSERT;s|=F6|ö|w
    INSERT;s|=E4|ä|w
    INSERT;s|=3D|=|w
    INSERT;s|=A0| |w
    INSERT;s|=92|'|w
    INSERT;s|=20||w
    INSERT;s|=C4|Ä|w
    INSERT;s|=D6|Ö|w
    INSERT;s|=DC|Ü|w
    FIND LAST

    Go to the command line (PF1 KP7 or CTRL-Z) and type KQP. It's easy to
    add more codes if you wish. EDT is fast; I have a 362-line EDTINI.EDT
    and I hardly notice it, even though it is read anew each time I edit a
    file. I use EDT not only from the DCL command line but also within VMS
    MAIL, NEWSRDR etc so I always have the same commands available.