On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:18:41 -0700, Len Whitwer wrote:

> Looking for a tool that allows ALPHA or even VAX application software
> "executables" to
> run on OpenVMS INTEGRITY systems without being modified and re-
> compiled.
>
> I know there was a company by the name of RAXCO that did it for
> PDP11's to VAX back
> in the old days. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

What is the source language of the executable?

>
> Len Whitwer
>
> -Len Whitwer
> Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc.
> 19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100
> Woodinville, WA 98072
> e-mail mailto:len@psds.com
> Internet: http://www.psds.com
> Toll Free: (866)857-0710
> Tel: (425) 488-0710
> Fax: (425) 488-6414



--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com

On Sep 18, 4:18*pm, Len Whitwer wrote:
> Looking for a tool that allows ALPHA or even VAX application software
> "executables" to
> run on OpenVMS INTEGRITY systems without being modified and re-
> compiled.
>
> I know there was a company by the name of RAXCO that did it for
> PDP11's to VAX back
> in the old days. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Len Whitwer
>
> -Len Whitwer
> Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc.
> 19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100
> Woodinville, WA *98072
> e-mail * *mailto:l...@psds.com
> Internet:http://www.psds.com
> Toll Free: (866)857-0710
> Tel: (425) 488-0710
> Fax: (425) 488-6414


OpenVMS Migration Software for VAX to Alpha (previously known as
DECmigrate aka VEST)
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...sva/omsva.html

Then
HP OpenVMS migration software for HP AlphaServer systems to HP
Integrity Servers (OMSAIS)
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...va/omsais.html

On Sep 18, 10:18 am, Len Whitwer wrote:
> Looking for a tool that allows ALPHA or even VAX application software
> "executables" to
> run on OpenVMS INTEGRITY systems without being modified and re-
> compiled.
>
> I know there was a company by the name of RAXCO that did it for
> PDP11's to VAX back
> in the old days. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Len Whitwer
>
> -Len Whitwer
> Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc.
> 19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100
> Woodinville, WA 98072
> e-mail mailto:l...@psds.com
> Internet:http://www.psds.com
> Toll Free: (866)857-0710
> Tel: (425) 488-0710
> Fax: (425) 488-6414


Len,

Ian has already posted the link. The PDP-11 conversion was part of
OpenVMS itself. Hardware compatibility was part of every processor
till the MicroVAX I, and thereafter the Applications Migration
Executive (AME) was a separate licensed component. There is a good
Digital Technical Journal article, but I am not near my bookshelf at
this instant so I cannot provide the citation.

The VEST and AEST packages are quite useful, particularly if there are
missing sources. They are also useful as management tools to doing an
actual migration. My OpenVMS Technical Journal article "Strategies for
Migrating from Alpha and VAX systems to HP Integrity Servers on
OpenVMS" (available via http://www.rlgsc.com/publications/vm...trategies.html
), as well as my presentation of the same title from the 2008 HP
Enterprise Technology Forum (slides at
http://www.rlgsc.com/hptechnologyfor...trategies.html )
covered how the binary translators can be used as a strategic tool.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

On Sep 18, 8:25*am, "Tom Linden" wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:18:41 -0700, Len Whitwer wrote:
> > Looking for a tool that allows ALPHA or even VAX application software
> > "executables" to
> > run on OpenVMS INTEGRITY systems without being modified and re-
> > compiled.
>
> > I know there was a company by the name of RAXCO that did it for
> > PDP11's to VAX back
> > in the old days. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> What is the source language of the executable?
>
>
>
> > Len Whitwer
>
> > -Len Whitwer
> > Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc.
> > 19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100
> > Woodinville, WA *98072
> > e-mail * *mailto:l...@psds.com
> > Internet:http://www.psds.com
> > Toll Free: (866)857-0710
> > Tel: (425) 488-0710
> > Fax: (425) 488-6414
>
> --
> PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com

The some of the source code is BASIC however not all. (This is an old
school application product that has many modules of which not all are
BASIC)
Thus the emulation product is best in the short run until complete re-
compliling of
software is can be completed.

Len Whitwer wrote:
> Looking for a tool that allows ALPHA or even VAX application software
> "executables" to
> run on OpenVMS INTEGRITY systems without being modified and re-
> compiled.
>
> I know there was a company by the name of RAXCO that did it for
> PDP11's to VAX back
> in the old days. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>

ISTR that DEC did it. If you purchased the RSX11 software for VAX, you
could run your PDP-11 stuff on a VAX 11/780 or 11/750 and maybe on the
730 and 725. I never actually ran any PDP-11 software on a VAX.

I have NOT heard of such a tool for Integrity. What happened to your
source code? If it's commercial software you want to run, does your
license allow you to run it on Integrity?

On Sep 18, 9:58*am, "Richard B. Gilbert"
wrote:
> Len Whitwer wrote:
> > Looking for a tool that allows ALPHA or even VAX application software
> > "executables" to
> > run on OpenVMS INTEGRITY systems without being modified and re-
> > compiled.
>
> > I know there was a company by the name of RAXCO that did it for
> > PDP11's to VAX back
> > in the old days. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> ISTR that DEC did it. *If you purchased the RSX11 software for VAX, you
> could run your PDP-11 stuff on a VAX 11/780 or 11/750 and maybe on the
> 730 and 725. *I never actually ran any PDP-11 software on a VAX.
>
> I have NOT heard of such a tool for Integrity. *What happened to your
> source code? *If it's commercial software you want to run, does your
> license allow you to run it on Integrity?

Hi Richard:

Source code is in many modules of which are not all BASIC. It is
comercial
software running on ALPHA and I'm not sure at this point anout
licensing as
I don't have a solution "product" yet.

Thanks for you help.

Len Whitwer

On Sep 18, 1:34*pm, Len Whitwer wrote:
> Source code is in many modules of which are not all BASIC. It is
> comercial software running on ALPHA and I'm not sure at this point anout
> licensing as I don't have a solution "product" yet.

If source code is available then I wouldn't even bother taking the
time to translate the images. Whether or not they are all BASIC or a
mix of languages shouldn't be a factor.

For a commercial product in particular, where the HP/DSPP program can
provide free Integrity licenses for migration, then it's almost a no-
brainer.

In article , Len Whitwer writes:
> Looking for a tool that allows ALPHA or even VAX application software
> "executables" to
> run on OpenVMS INTEGRITY systems without being modified and re-
> compiled.

VEST goes from VAX to Alpha and AEST goes from Alpha to Itanium.
AEST can handle the output of VEST. Both are available from HP.

You can also get simulators that simulate VAX hardware or Alpha
hardware on other platforms. That way you're running on a new
platform but the software thinks you're running on the old.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]
> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 4:46 PM
> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
> Subject: Re: Does anyone know of a "VESTING TOOL" for emulating/porting
> VMS
>
> In article > afe47f42d84e@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Len Whitwer
> writes:
> > Looking for a tool that allows ALPHA or even VAX application software
> > "executables" to
> > run on OpenVMS INTEGRITY systems without being modified and re-
> > compiled.
>
> VEST goes from VAX to Alpha and AEST goes from Alpha to Itanium.
> AEST can handle the output of VEST. Both are available from HP.
>
> You can also get simulators that simulate VAX hardware or Alpha
> hardware on other platforms. That way you're running on a new
> platform but the software thinks you're running on the old.

Reference:

OMSAIS tool (Alpha to Integrity translator)
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...va/omsais.html

OMSVA (formerly DECmigrate) VAX to Alpha translator:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...sva/omsva.html

Regards

Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-254-8911
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)

OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.

> > OMSAIS tool (Alpha to Integrity translator)
> >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...va/omsais.html

FYI, HP-published version of V/A OMSAIS V2 as of Sep/2008 doesn't
support translating binaries generated from the OpenVMS/Alpha BASIC
compiler.

$ aest hworld.exe /aud
%AEST-W-RTLNOTSUPP, programming language BASIC is not currently
supported AEST (V2.0, Bld DEV_0.8/Aug 30 2006) %AEST-W-TRANSWARN,
Translation completed with warnings -- review them before usi ng the
output image

hworld.bas:
1010 print "hello world"
1020 end

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 05:44:37 -0700, Rod wrote:

>> > OMSAIS tool (Alpha to Integrity translator)
>> >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...va/omsais.html
>
> FYI, HP-published version of V/A OMSAIS V2 as of Sep/2008 doesn't
> support translating binaries generated from the OpenVMS/Alpha BASIC
> compiler.
>
> $ aest hworld.exe /aud
> %AEST-W-RTLNOTSUPP, programming language BASIC is not currently
> supported AEST (V2.0, Bld DEV_0.8/Aug 30 2006) %AEST-W-TRANSWARN,
> Translation completed with warnings -- review them before usi ng the
> output image
>
> hworld.bas:
> 1010 print "hello world"
> 1020 end

Rod, is that our version of AEST you are using?

--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com

Rod wrote:
>
> > > OMSAIS tool (Alpha to Integrity translator)
> > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...va/omsais.html
>
> FYI, HP-published version of V/A OMSAIS V2 as of Sep/2008 doesn't
> support translating binaries generated from the OpenVMS/Alpha BASIC
> compiler.
>
> $ aest hworld.exe /aud
> %AEST-W-RTLNOTSUPP, programming language BASIC is not currently
> supported AEST (V2.0, Bld DEV_0.8/Aug 30 2006) %AEST-W-TRANSWARN,
> Translation completed with warnings -- review them before usi ng the
> output image
>
> hworld.bas:
> 1010 print "hello world"
> 1020 end

Note that the constraint is not the language itself, rather its the RTL
and the use of VAX floating point. When it originally came out, the
authors of AEST said they could not make any brash assumptions about
what any specific user program would use, and there were no work-arounds
for the performance issues surrounding the conversion of x-FLOAT
datatypes to IEEE and back to allow manipulation of the data by the I64
CPU.

D.J.D.

David J Dachtera wrote:
> Rod wrote:
>>>> OMSAIS tool (Alpha to Integrity translator)
>>>> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...va/omsais.html
>> FYI, HP-published version of V/A OMSAIS V2 as of Sep/2008 doesn't
>> support translating binaries generated from the OpenVMS/Alpha BASIC
>> compiler.
>>
>> $ aest hworld.exe /aud
>> %AEST-W-RTLNOTSUPP, programming language BASIC is not currently
>> supported AEST (V2.0, Bld DEV_0.8/Aug 30 2006) %AEST-W-TRANSWARN,
>> Translation completed with warnings -- review them before usi ng the
>> output image
>>
>> hworld.bas:
>> 1010 print "hello world"
>> 1020 end
>
> Note that the constraint is not the language itself, rather its the RTL
> and the use of VAX floating point. When it originally came out, the
> authors of AEST said they could not make any brash assumptions about
> what any specific user program would use, and there were no work-arounds
> for the performance issues surrounding the conversion of x-FLOAT
> datatypes to IEEE and back to allow manipulation of the data by the I64
> CPU.
>

That's sort of true. There is a bit more to it.

The biggest problem with BASIC is that on the Alpha it doesn't use the
LIB$ routines for traversing the call stack. It uses some hand-crafted
code that is designed to work faster than the LIB$ interface. Every time
a BASIC routine is entered it looks around for a context block that
contains details about floating point rounding and other important stuff.

The problem here is that because the Alpha and I64 stacks are intertwined
this hand crafted code can get lost. It also provides some entertainment
when it trys to do exception handling.

Floating point performance is poor. This is because, at the moment, it's
all done by hand. There is no conversion between VAX and IEEE and back
again. The instruction eumulator does all the math itself.

Tim.

Rod wrote:
>>> OMSAIS tool (Alpha to Integrity translator)
>>> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...va/omsais.html
>
> FYI, HP-published version of V/A OMSAIS V2 as of Sep/2008 doesn't
> support translating binaries generated from the OpenVMS/Alpha BASIC
> compiler.
>
> $ aest hworld.exe /aud
> %AEST-W-RTLNOTSUPP, programming language BASIC is not currently
> supported AEST (V2.0, Bld DEV_0.8/Aug 30 2006) %AEST-W-TRANSWARN,
> Translation completed with warnings -- review them before usi ng the
> output image
>
> hworld.bas:
> 1010 print "hello world"
> 1020 end

We built the OMSAIS tool on contract for HP, and budget constraints
limited support for the number of languages we could add support for.

But we can (and have) added functionality for specific problems.

You find contact information on our website: www.stromasys.com
We opened regional sales and support offices for North America (Raleigh,
NC) and the Far East (HongKong).

Regards,

Robert Boers
CEO
Stromasys SA, Geneva, Switzerland
(Formerly known as Software Resources International SA)
We produce cross-platform virtualization products under the brand name
CHARON.