OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours - VMS

This is a discussion on OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours - VMS ; The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00 Central European Time (GMT + 2). It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC (lasting an eternity for the people in it, but ...

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Thread: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

  1. OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00
    Central European Time (GMT + 2).

    It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC
    (lasting an eternity for the people in it, but mere millionth of a
    second for us) and it is possible that it will also create a black hole
    that will suck up the earth (like the vaccuum cleaner that sucks the
    pink panther and then sucks itself out of existance)

    It is unclear what effect the LHC experiment may have on the connection
    between my universe and the one where most of comp.os.vms lives in.

    BBC said that they won't have it at full power today and it will take a
    year before they risk running at at full power.


    www.cern.ch is the official website. As in any modern event, they are to
    have a live webcast. It is not clear what's we'll see in it. It is not
    clear if we will actually hear a "big bang".

    Good luck to all those who worked on that project, and lets hope that
    they doN't rely on Windows to run it. And remember that, as in any
    science fiction movie, all the lights in the world will dim when they
    turn the power on to the collider :-) :-) :-) :-)

  2. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    JF Mezei schrieb:

    > ... and lets hope that
    > they doN't rely on Windows to run it.


    I wouldn't hold my breath.



  3. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > JF Mezei schrieb:
    >
    >> ... and lets hope that
    >> they doN't rely on Windows to run it.

    >
    > I wouldn't hold my breath.
    >
    >


    Well yes, they do, and we do:
    see my snapshot of a small part of our liquid argon calorimeter
    detector control system
    http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber/at...y_for_beam.jpg
    waiting for beam ...

    --

    Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de

  4. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    Joseph Huber schrieb:
    > Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >
    >> JF Mezei schrieb:
    >>
    >>> ... and lets hope that
    >>> they doN't rely on Windows to run it.

    >>
    >>
    >> I wouldn't hold my breath.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Well yes, they do, and we do:
    > see my snapshot of a small part of our liquid argon calorimeter
    > detector control system
    > http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber/at...y_for_beam.jpg
    > waiting for beam ...


    Well, that's just a snapshot of a particular experiment, CERN is large,
    and not too long ago, the mantra of their IT bosses was that
    WindozeNT will take over everything.
    What are the accelerator controls running on ?


  5. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    Follow the excitement at

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/bigbang/


  6. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > Well, that's just a snapshot of a particular experiment, CERN is large,
    > and not too long ago, the mantra of their IT bosses was that
    > WindozeNT will take over everything.
    > What are the accelerator controls running on ?
    >

    Well I'm not near enough to know. The hard core is certainly running on
    hard realtime systems, the controls levels above are a mixture of
    Windows and Linux systems.
    There is a common SCADA system in use both for LHC and detector control
    , which runs on Windows and Linux.

    Windows has not taken over everything, but in admin and engineering almost.

    --

    Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de

  7. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Sep 10, 9:34 am, Joseph Huber wrote:
    > Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > > Well, that's just a snapshot of a particular experiment, CERN is large,
    > > and not too long ago, the mantra of their IT bosses was that
    > > WindozeNT will take over everything.
    > > What are the accelerator controls running on ?

    >
    > Well I'm not near enough to know. The hard core is certainly running on
    > hard realtime systems, the controls levels above are a mixture of
    > Windows and Linux systems.
    > There is a common SCADA system in use both for LHC and detector control
    > , which runs on Windows and Linux.
    >
    > Windows has not taken over everything, but in admin and engineering almost.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Joseph Huber -http://www.huber-joseph.de


    "Common SCADA system" = National Instruments Labview, right ? As per
    http://sine.ni.com/cs/app/doc/p/id/cs-10795 ?

    There are lots of folks who'd consider themselves in the SCADA
    industry who wouldn't class Labview as a SCADA package, but...

  8. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    AN UPDATE:

    The universe still exists today because all they are doing is getting a
    few particles to move in one direction. No collisions planned in short
    term. They'll next try to get a few particles to go in the opposite
    direction. Collisions will happen much later when they get particles to
    flow in opposite directions at the same time. (and they have to fine
    tune their guidance system so that particles flowing in opposite
    directions will hit each other.

    So what they have done today is what I used to do at the montreal
    velodrome (before it was savagely destroyed by politicians): go round
    and round hopefully without a collision...


    BTW:

    $ curl -I http://www.cern.ch
    HTTP/1.1 302 Found
    Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:11:05 GMT
    Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
    X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
    X-AspNet-Version: 1.1.4322
    Location: http://public.web.cern.ch/public/
    Cache-Control: private
    Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
    Content-Length: 150


    And I thought CERN was populated by intelligent and educated people who
    would know not to use microsoft products.

  9. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    JF Mezei schrieb:
    > BTW:
    >
    > $ curl -I http://www.cern.ch
    > HTTP/1.1 302 Found
    > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:11:05 GMT
    > Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
    > X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
    > X-AspNet-Version: 1.1.4322
    > Location: http://public.web.cern.ch/public/
    > Cache-Control: private
    > Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
    > Content-Length: 150
    >
    >
    > And I thought CERN was populated by intelligent and educated people who
    > would know not to use microsoft products.


    well, being cynical, one could ask:
    And these are the same people telling us
    there would be absolutely no problems with
    black holes ?
    :-)


  10. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

    > "Common SCADA system" = National Instruments Labview, right ? As per
    > http://sine.ni.com/cs/app/doc/p/id/cs-10795 ?
    >
    > There are lots of folks who'd consider themselves in the SCADA
    > industry who wouldn't class Labview as a SCADA package, but...


    No, definitely not Labview, it is PVSS from ETM (http://www.etm.at/).

    --

    Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de

  11. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    Joseph Huber wrote:

    > No, definitely not Labview, it is PVSS from ETM (http://www.etm.at/).
    >


    This product is said to work on Windows, Linux and Solaris.

    I can see commonality between Linux and SOlaris, they both use X and
    various graphical toolkits are available on both.

    How do they also support Windows ? Isn't this a major headache to
    support both Unix and Windows for some serious application when you
    consider how different Windows is from the rest of the world ?

  12. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > Joseph Huber wrote:
    >
    >> No, definitely not Labview, it is PVSS from ETM (http://www.etm.at/).
    >>

    >
    > This product is said to work on Windows, Linux and Solaris.
    >
    > I can see commonality between Linux and SOlaris, they both use X and
    > various graphical toolkits are available on both.
    >
    > How do they also support Windows ? Isn't this a major headache to
    > support both Unix and Windows for some serious application when you
    > consider how different Windows is from the rest of the world ?


    The first years we used it, the graphical interface was quite different
    between linux and Windows. They now have an intermediate graphic layer (
    Qt ?), so the graphics part now has a rather common software base on
    both system worlds.
    And for datahandling and communication, if there are well defined
    protocols behind (ODBC,OPC,..), then I think one doesn't have to
    maintain too diverse code streams.

    PVSS consists of a rather small set of programs (called "managers"), and
    the application work is plugged in as "scripts" in form of (extended-) C
    code, which is interpreted by the control managers.

    There are mainly device drivers tight to the different systems. And here
    is also one reasons why some subsystems are bound to Windows. The
    subproject I'm working e.g. has some CANbus driver and OPC interfaces
    not available for Linux.

    --

    Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de

  13. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    In article <48c74eaa$0$12359$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    > The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00
    > Central European Time (GMT + 2).
    >
    > It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC
    > (lasting an eternity for the people in it, but mere millionth of a
    > second for us) and it is possible that it will also create a black hole
    > that will suck up the earth (like the vaccuum cleaner that sucks the
    > pink panther and then sucks itself out of existance)


    They didn't even turn on the opposing beam yet. It's really hard
    to get collisions when all the protons are running in the same
    direction.

    Creating a new universe is an extreem and misleading description
    of what is expected to happen when they do get collisions.

    And the possibility of destroying the Earth is just fodder for
    headline seeking "journalists".


  14. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Sep 10, 7:49*am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article <48c74eaa$0$12359$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >
    > > The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00
    > > Central European Time (GMT + 2).

    >
    > > It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC
    > > (lasting an eternity for the people in it, but mere millionth of a
    > > second for us) and it is possible that it will also create a black hole
    > > that will suck up the earth (like the vaccuum cleaner that sucks *the
    > > pink panther and then sucks itself out of existance)

    >
    > * *They didn't even turn on the opposing beam yet. *It's really hard
    > * *to get collisions when all the protons are running in the same
    > * *direction.
    >
    > * *Creating a new universe is an extreem and misleading description
    > * *of what is expected to happen when they do get collisions.
    >
    > * *And the possibility of destroying the Earth is just fodder for
    > * *headline seeking "journalists".


    Can't comment on the end of the world or Windows/Linux stuff but I
    will pass this on.

    At a recent DECUS-->Encompass-->Connect LUG (now chapter) meeting a
    brief discussion of the LHC took place. Guy from Fermi Lab said that
    the unit must be shut down for 3 months of the year during the heating
    season. Electrons are used to heat homes, etc and with the LHC using
    the Euro grid to power their new machine, there won't be enough
    electrons to both run the collider and keep people warm during the
    heating season.


  15. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00
    > Central European Time (GMT + 2).
    >
    > It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC
    > (lasting an eternity for the people in it, but mere millionth of a
    > second for us) and it is possible that it will also create a black hole
    > that will suck up the earth (like the vaccuum cleaner that sucks the
    > pink panther and then sucks itself out of existance)
    >
    > It is unclear what effect the LHC experiment may have on the connection
    > between my universe and the one where most of comp.os.vms lives in.
    >
    > BBC said that they won't have it at full power today and it will take a
    > year before they risk running at at full power.
    >
    >
    > www.cern.ch is the official website. As in any modern event, they are to
    > have a live webcast. It is not clear what's we'll see in it. It is not
    > clear if we will actually hear a "big bang".
    >
    > Good luck to all those who worked on that project, and lets hope that
    > they doN't rely on Windows to run it. And remember that, as in any
    > science fiction movie, all the lights in the world will dim when they
    > turn the power on to the collider :-) :-) :-) :-)


    Well, the world has clearly survived. Unless, of course, I'm
    hallucinating all this!

  16. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    In article
    <4a6998f0-e341-4178-a7ae-eacd7d54b8f5@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, DaveG
    writes:

    > At a recent DECUS-->Encompass-->Connect LUG (now chapter) meeting a
    > brief discussion of the LHC took place. Guy from Fermi Lab said that
    > the unit must be shut down for 3 months of the year during the heating
    > season. Electrons are used to heat homes, etc and with the LHC using
    > the Euro grid to power their new machine, there won't be enough
    > electrons to both run the collider and keep people warm during the
    > heating season.


    I don't know if this is true, but if so, the bottleneck is not
    electrons, but rather power. I think at one point it was debated
    whether CERN should have its own power plant. At DESY in Hamburg, which
    is a similar institution, the average power consumption amounts to 2% of
    the city of Hamburg (where DESY is located), which has over a million
    inhabitants.


  17. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Sep 10, 10:55*am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---
    remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:
    > In article
    > <4a6998f0-e341-4178-a7ae-eacd7d54b...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, DaveG
    >
    > writes:
    > > At a recent DECUS-->Encompass-->Connect LUG (now chapter) meeting a
    > > brief discussion of the LHC took place. *Guy from Fermi Lab said that
    > > the unit must be shut down for 3 months of the year during the heating
    > > season. *Electrons are used to heat homes, etc and with the LHC using
    > > the Euro grid to power their new machine, there won't be enough
    > > electrons to both run the collider and keep people warm during the
    > > heating season.

    >
    > I don't know if this is true, but if so, the bottleneck is not
    > electrons, but rather power. *I think at one point it was debated
    > whether CERN should have its own power plant. *At DESY in Hamburg, which
    > is a similar institution, the average power consumption amounts to 2% of
    > the city of Hamburg (where DESY is located), which has over a million
    > inhabitants.


    power == electrons in my note. Sorry for the confusion.

  18. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Sep 10, 10:40*am, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    wrote:
    > JF Mezei wrote:
    > > The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00
    > > Central European Time (GMT + 2).

    >
    > > It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC
    > > (lasting an eternity for the people in it, but mere millionth of a
    > > second for us) and it is possible that it will also create a black hole
    > > that will suck up the earth (like the vaccuum cleaner that sucks *the
    > > pink panther and then sucks itself out of existance)

    >
    > > It is unclear what effect the LHC experiment may have on the connection
    > > between my universe and the one where most of comp.os.vms lives in.

    >
    > > BBC said that they won't have it at full power today and it will take a
    > > year before they risk running at at full power.

    >
    > >www.cern.chis the official website. As in any modern event, they are to
    > > have a live webcast. It is not clear what's we'll see in it. It is not
    > > clear if we will actually hear a "big bang".

    >
    > > Good luck to all those who worked on that project, and lets hope that
    > > they doN't rely on Windows to run it. And remember that, as in any
    > > science fiction movie, all the lights in the world will dim when they
    > > turn the power on to the collider :-) :-) :-) :-)

    >
    > Well, the world has clearly survived. *Unless, of course, I'm
    > hallucinating all this!- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    No, actually I exist, and the rest of you are figments of my
    imagination. Or at least that is what my wife is telling me, as she
    studies philosophy.

    Or at least that is what my mind is telling me, that I have a wife
    that is studying philosophy who is telling me that I don't exist, yet
    I do and no one else does, they are only projections of my mind...

  19. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    In article <5LmdnRAOyepDQVrVnZ2dnUVZ_h-dnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >
    > Well, the world has clearly survived. Unless, of course, I'm
    > hallucinating all this!


    No, but the LHC we're inside had better be paying it's bills.


  20. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Sep 10, 9:40*am, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    wrote:
    > JF Mezei wrote:
    > > The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00
    > > Central European Time (GMT + 2).

    >
    > > It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC
    > > (lasting an eternity for the people in it, but mere millionth of a
    > > second for us) and it is possible that it will also create a black hole
    > > that will suck up the earth (like the vaccuum cleaner that sucks *the
    > > pink panther and then sucks itself out of existance)

    >
    > > It is unclear what effect the LHC experiment may have on the connection
    > > between my universe and the one where most of comp.os.vms lives in.

    >
    > > BBC said that they won't have it at full power today and it will take a
    > > year before they risk running at at full power.

    >
    > >www.cern.chis the official website. As in any modern event, they are to
    > > have a live webcast. It is not clear what's we'll see in it. It is not
    > > clear if we will actually hear a "big bang".

    >
    > > Good luck to all those who worked on that project, and lets hope that
    > > they doN't rely on Windows to run it. And remember that, as in any
    > > science fiction movie, all the lights in the world will dim when they
    > > turn the power on to the collider :-) :-) :-) :-)

    >
    > Well, the world has clearly survived. *Unless, of course, I'm
    > hallucinating all this!


    No, man. We're all just one guy lying on a green shag carpet listening
    to Iron Butterfly and it's 1968...

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