OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours - VMS

This is a discussion on OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours - VMS ; "Joseph Huber" wrote in message news:ga7ulm$1110$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de... > Michael Kraemer wrote: >> JF Mezei schrieb: >> >>> ... and lets hope that >>> they doN't rely on Windows to run it. >> >> I wouldn't hold my breath. >> >> > ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 181

Thread: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

  1. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    "Joseph Huber" wrote in message
    news:ga7ulm$1110$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de...
    > Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >> JF Mezei schrieb:
    >>
    >>> ... and lets hope that
    >>> they doN't rely on Windows to run it.

    >>
    >> I wouldn't hold my breath.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Well yes, they do, and we do:
    > see my snapshot of a small part of our liquid argon calorimeter detector
    > control system
    > http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber/at...y_for_beam.jpg
    > waiting for beam ...
    >
    > --
    >
    > Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de
    >


    That's either Unix or Linux with a Korn shell. Not M$-Windows.

    Mike.



  2. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    AEF wrote:

    > End of the world? I'll bet anyone, any amount, that it won't be! ;-)



    This is a very unfair bet since in the event that you are wrong, you
    will not exist and will therefore not be able to pay the "any amount" to
    the other party.

    Note that there is good reason for the ring being burried 100m
    underground. Should magnets fail and a single particle at full speed hit
    the wall, the collision would be similar to a runaway freight train
    hitting a wall at 150km/h. (or so I read).

    Makes one wonder if they have a big UPS to keep the magnets going should
    there be a power failure :-)

    BTW, is there some simple explanation of how they take gaseous H2 from
    a bottle and produce protons in some holding field prior to being
    accelerated in that ring ?

    BTW, heard an intersting concept in an interview. The theory is that the
    big bang generated the particle physics equivalent to stem cells: a
    generic mass. This was later converted (via other collisions or other
    mechanism) into a variety of atoms which make up the periodic table of
    elements.

  3. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    Michael D. Ober wrote:
    > "Joseph Huber" wrote in message
    > news:ga7ulm$1110$1@gwdu112.gwdg.de...
    >> Michael Kraemer wrote:
    >>> JF Mezei schrieb:
    >>>
    >>>> ... and lets hope that
    >>>> they doN't rely on Windows to run it.
    >>>
    >>> I wouldn't hold my breath.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Well yes, they do, and we do:
    >> see my snapshot of a small part of our liquid argon calorimeter
    >> detector control system
    >> http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber/at...y_for_beam.jpg
    >> waiting for beam ...
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de
    >>

    >
    > That's either Unix or Linux with a Korn shell. Not M$-Windows.
    >
    > Mike.


    NO, it IS Windows, see on top the window name "Rdesktop cernts...",
    (running from a Linux desktop. I do no longer have a VMS desktop :-)


    --

    Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de

  4. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Sep 10, 5:15*am, JF Mezei wrote:
    > AN UPDATE:
    >
    > The universe still exists today because all they are doing is getting a
    > few particles to move in one direction. No collisions planned in short
    > term. They'll next try to get a few particles to go in the opposite
    > direction. Collisions will happen much later when they get particles to
    > flow in opposite directions at the same time. (and they have to fine
    > tune their guidance system so that particles flowing in opposite
    > directions will hit each other.
    >
    > So what they have done today is what I used to do at the montreal
    > velodrome (before it was savagely destroyed by politicians): go round
    > and round hopefully without a collision...
    >

    First off, they will take 1-3 weeks to calibrate the counter-clockwise
    proton flow. This is necessary to get the protons travelling as close
    the the speed of light as possible. After that, they will require
    another 1-3 weeks to calibrate the clockwise proton flow. When that is
    done, they will run both rings then attempt to merge the beams inside
    the detectors so protons will collide with each other (as opposed to
    slamming into a fixed target).

    On a related note, the internet was around in various forms for more
    than 15 years (depends on which development is considered "the
    begining") but not much came of it until 1989 when CERN scientist Tim
    Berners-Lee invented the world-wide-web. Why did he do it? Scientists
    needed an easy way to access various multi-user computers (to see
    reports and stored experimental data) without accounts or passwords (a
    foreign concept at the time). Setting up an unrestricted area under
    the web server then developing browsers to access these files was what
    his team produced.

    The LHC will require > 2500 super computers to collect/store the data.
    Since the city of Geneva isn't able to power this many systems, these
    computers are distributed around the world with one of the best
    developed optical networks which they just refer to as "the grid". So
    many of us are waiting for the next CERN developed computer technology
    to come down to the masses.

    http://lcg.web.cern.ch/LCG/

    p.s. microscopic low-mass black holes evaporate via Hawking radiation.
    Nature creates them all the time.

    Neil Rieck
    Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
    Ontario, Canada.
    http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/OpenVMS.html

  5. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    In article <48c8864d$0$12382$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >AEF wrote:
    >
    >> End of the world? I'll bet anyone, any amount, that it won't be! ;-)

    >
    >
    >This is a very unfair bet since in the event that you are wrong, you
    >will not exist and will therefore not be able to pay the "any amount" to
    >the other party.
    >
    >Note that there is good reason for the ring being burried 100m
    >underground. Should magnets fail and a single particle at full speed hit
    >the wall, the collision would be similar to a runaway freight train
    >hitting a wall at 150km/h. (or so I read).
    >
    >Makes one wonder if they have a big UPS to keep the magnets going should
    >there be a power failure :-)
    >
    >BTW, is there some simple explanation of how they take gaseous H2 from
    >a bottle and produce protons in some holding field prior to being
    >accelerated in that ring ?
    >
    >BTW, heard an intersting concept in an interview. The theory is that the
    >big bang generated the particle physics equivalent to stem cells: a
    >generic mass. This was later converted (via other collisions or other
    >mechanism) into a variety of atoms which make up the periodic table of
    >elements.


    The big bang pretty much just created the lighter elements upto Lithium. This
    is thought to have occurred in a number of stages with a quark-gluon plasma
    cooling to produce protons and neutrons which then combined to form these
    atomic nuclei.

    The abundances of hydrogen, deuterium and helium in the Universe fit
    pretty closely with the calculations though I believe there is a bit of a
    discrepency with the abundance of lithium. The rest of the elements are
    believed to have been created by fusion inside stars (elements upto Iron being
    created during the life of the star whilst heavier elements were created during
    supernova explosions which also acted to spread the elements across the
    universe).

    It is quite likely that the quark-gluon plasma itself formed from the cooling
    of a pre-existing stage consisting of even more fundamental entities eg
    strings.


    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University

  6. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    >
    > It is not clear if we will actually hear a "big bang".
    >


    Who cares about just hearing it? I won't believe that the LHC caused a
    "big bang" unless I get to _see_ it as well!

    By the waym who's to say that the hypothetical LHC-created big bang
    might not be the one that created this very universe? If that could
    be, dare we _not_ go ahead with this experiment? Otherwise we might
    prevent any of us, and everything else in the universe for that matter
    (pun, pun), from ever having existed in the first place.

    :-)


  7. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    Galen wrote:
    >> It is not clear if we will actually hear a "big bang".
    >>

    >
    > Who cares about just hearing it? I won't believe that the LHC caused a
    > "big bang" unless I get to _see_ it as well!
    >
    > By the waym who's to say that the hypothetical LHC-created big bang
    > might not be the one that created this very universe? If that could
    > be, dare we _not_ go ahead with this experiment? Otherwise we might
    > prevent any of us, and everything else in the universe for that matter
    > (pun, pun), from ever having existed in the first place.
    >
    > :-)
    >


    Aaaaaaarrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!

    The only merciful thing to do is to shoot him!


  8. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    >
    > Aaaaaaarrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!
    >
    > The only merciful thing to do is to shoot him!


    If my execution becomes necessary please stand me up at the LHC and
    pull the trigger...

  9. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Sep 10, 10:43*pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    > AEF wrote:

    [Well, I don't normally respond to off-topic JF posts, but I can't
    resist this one!]

    > > End of the world? I'll bet anyone, any amount, that it won't be! ;-)


    Well, duh!

    >
    > This is a very unfair bet since in the event that you are wrong, you
    > will not exist and will therefore not be able to pay the "any amount" to
    > the other party.


    But the other party won't exist either!


    >
    > Note that there is good reason for the ring being burried 100m
    > underground. Should magnets fail and a single particle at full speed hit
    > the wall, the collision would be similar to a runaway freight train
    > hitting a wall at 150km/h. (or so I read).


    You read wrong. Not even close. (And that itself is a gross
    understatement!) If you need some evidence, check

    http://www.onlineconversion.com/

    or any reputable book with a units/physical-constants table and do the
    math.

    [...]

    AEF

  10. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    In article <48c8864d$0$12382$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >
    > BTW, is there some simple explanation of how they take gaseous H2 from
    > a bottle and produce protons in some holding field prior to being
    > accelerated in that ring ?


    You remember that Van de Graff generator you had in middle school?

    Most big accelerators start by using Van de Graff generators to
    produce charged particles.

    > BTW, heard an intersting concept in an interview. The theory is that the
    > big bang generated the particle physics equivalent to stem cells: a
    > generic mass. This was later converted (via other collisions or other
    > mechanism) into a variety of atoms which make up the periodic table of
    > elements.


    Big question is: where's all the anti-matter?


  11. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    In article <48c79086$0$12394$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote:
    [...]
    >So what they have done today is what I used to do at the montreal
    >velodrome (before it was savagely destroyed by politicians): go round
    >and round hopefully without a collision...


    I wonder what would happen in the Velodrome if they introduced a Lance
    Armstrong going round and round in the opposite direction, and the two of you
    collided?

    :-)

  12. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    In article , BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) writes:
    >In article <48c79086$0$12394$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote:
    >[...]
    >>So what they have done today is what I used to do at the montreal
    >>velodrome (before it was savagely destroyed by politicians): go round
    >>and round hopefully without a collision...

    >
    >I wonder what would happen in the Velodrome if they introduced a Lance
    >Armstrong going round and round in the opposite direction, and the two of you
    >collided?


    The Super Lance Armstrong Collider! Damn... that acronym is already taken!


    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    .... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
    no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

    Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
    of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
    notice, disclaimer and quotations.

  13. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours


  14. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours


    >
    > If my execution becomes necessary please stand me up at the LHC and
    > pull the trigger...


    Hmm. If they actually did this to me, maybe I would become the stuff
    from which the new (or present?) universe were created?

    We are such stuff as universes are made of... (Apologies to W.S.)

  15. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Sep 10, 5:53 am, Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > JF Mezei schrieb:
    >
    >
    >
    > > BTW:

    >
    > > $ curl -Ihttp://www.cern.ch
    > > HTTP/1.1 302 Found
    > > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:11:05 GMT
    > > Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
    > > X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
    > > X-AspNet-Version: 1.1.4322
    > > Location:http://public.web.cern.ch/public/
    > > Cache-Control: private
    > > Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
    > > Content-Length: 150

    >
    > > And I thought CERN was populated by intelligent and educated people who
    > > would know not to use microsoft products.


    That's just their website. They're probably using Linux to analyze the
    data, but I don't know for sure.

    >
    > well, being cynical, one could ask:
    > And these are the same people telling us
    > there would be absolutely no problems with
    > black holes ?
    > :-)


    See Brian Greene's Op-ed article in today's NY Times for the answer.
    Hint: It has to do with cosmic rays.

    (You might need to register.)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/op...on&oref=slogin

    AEF

  16. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    "Ken Robinson" wrote in message
    news:7dd80f60809120434n23d0c1bfu3df6a2e9a6b95e5b@m ail.gmail.com...
    > See this site:
    >
    > http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdest...eworldyet.com/
    >
    > Ken



    I like this one - live webcam: http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html


  17. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    Brad Hamilton wrote:

    > I wonder what would happen in the Velodrome if they introduced a Lance
    > Armstrong going round and round in the opposite direction, and the two of you
    > collided?


    Have you considered switching carreers and becoming a fortune teller ?

    The wheels will absorb most of the energy, not only because of the
    tires, but the rims will deform, absorbing mch energy. After that, the
    bikes will move sideways, and the riders fall to the ground.

    Now, I have to unpack the groceries from my backpack to see if the eggs
    survived this collision. (in my case, it was from the back, it it wasn't
    a bike... had to walk home carrying the bike because the rear wheel
    won't spin anymore due to the amount of energy it absorbed in the collision.

  18. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Sep 10, 5:15 am, JF Mezei wrote:
    [...]
    > BTW:
    >
    > $ curl -Ihttp://www.cern.ch
    > HTTP/1.1 302 Found
    > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:11:05 GMT
    > Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
    > X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
    > X-AspNet-Version: 1.1.4322
    > Location:http://public.web.cern.ch/public/
    > Cache-Control: private
    > Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
    > Content-Length: 150
    >
    > And I thought CERN was populated by intelligent and educated people who
    > would know not to use microsoft products.


    That's only their website. I seriously doubt the physicists themselves
    run it, let alone set it up. They probably hired the services of some
    company to do it, but I'm not sure. Besides, their talent is physics,
    not computer shopping. And how would people in this newsgroup, and any
    other IT people, no matter how "intelligent", be able to pick out
    equipment and set up the largest, most powerful accelerator facility
    ever built? (OK, that's a slightly bogus argument, but physicists
    don't give such matters a whole lot of thought. And keeping a website
    running is far less important than the accelerator itself.)

    As for running the accelerator itself and its detectors and what not
    -- I really don't know. I know that people in the physics group I was
    in at graduate school used to use VAX/VMS and recently (if not still)
    use Linux to analyze their data. Places where I did experiments used
    VAX/VMS to analyze data. What did they use to run the accelerators?
    Some places, like the lab at Ohio U., used their own contraptions. In
    fact, many of them may be like that. I think the actual equipment in
    use is more important. It's been a long time since I was involved with
    such stuff.

    So I wouldn't read too much into this.

    AEF

  19. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Richard B. Gilbert
    > wrote:

    > JF Mezei wrote:
    >
    >> The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00
    >> Central European Time (GMT + 2).
    >>
    >> It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC
    >> (lasting an eternity for the people in it, but mere millionth of a
    >> second for us) and it is possible that it will also create a black hole
    >> that will suck up the earth (like the vaccuum cleaner that sucks the
    >> pink panther and then sucks itself out of existance)
    >>
    >> It is unclear what effect the LHC experiment may have on the connection
    >> between my universe and the one where most of comp.os.vms lives in.
    >>
    >> BBC said that they won't have it at full power today and it will take a
    >> year before they risk running at at full power.
    >>
    >>
    >> www.cern.ch is the official website. As in any modern event, they are to
    >> have a live webcast. It is not clear what's we'll see in it. It is not
    >> clear if we will actually hear a "big bang".
    >>
    >> Good luck to all those who worked on that project, and lets hope that
    >> they doN't rely on Windows to run it. And remember that, as in any
    >> science fiction movie, all the lights in the world will dim when they
    >> turn the power on to the collider :-) :-) :-) :-)
    >>

    >
    > Well, the world has clearly survived. Unless, of course, I'm hallucinating
    > all this!
    >



    Your post looks kind of skinny. Are you sure we're not being drawn into a
    black hole?

    :-)
    WWWebb


  20. Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours

    AEF wrote:

    > As for running the accelerator itself and its detectors and what not
    > -- I really don't know. I know that people in the physics group I was
    > in at graduate school used to use VAX/VMS and recently (if not still)
    > use Linux to analyze their data. Places where I did experiments used


    Particle accelerators is not something you buy at Walmart. How much of
    the hardware they have can be "off the shelf" ? Would they require
    special custom built PCI cards to stuff into 8086s running whatever to
    control (for instance) the magnets all around the vacuum tube where
    particles travel ? Or would they be able to use fairly standard lab
    equipment to have some computer very precisely control the magnets ?
    (and whatever else).

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast