Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11 - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11 - VMS ; >Derimeil wrote: >I need to set NOCRLF on a pdp11 with rt11. I try the setting in simh >with your disk dump. > >os: RT-11FB (S) V04.00I > > >I try: >.SET TTY NOCRLF >?KMON-F-File not found SY:TTY.SYS > >And: ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

  1. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    >Derimeil wrote:

    >I need to set NOCRLF on a pdp11 with rt11. I try the setting in simh
    >with your disk dump.
    >
    >os: RT-11FB (S) V04.00I
    >
    >
    >I try:
    >.SET TTY NOCRLF
    >?KMON-F-File not found SY:TTY.SYS
    >
    >And:
    >.DIR *.SYS
    > 27-Aug-77
    >DL .SYS 5 12-Feb-81 DY .SYS 4 12-Feb-81
    >NL .SYS 2 12-Feb-81 SWAP .SYS 25 21-Feb-80
    >GAMMAI.SYS 4 02-Aug-77 RT11FB.SYS 77 12-Feb-81
    >GAMMAP.SYS 20 02-Aug-77 CVAR00.SYS 54 24-May-88
    >CVHELP.SYS 7 12-Nov-80
    > 9 Files, 198 Blocks
    > 10246 Free blocks
    >
    >

    Jerome Fine replies:

    The correct command is:

    SET TT NOCRLF

    Why do you want to use this command?

    If I may ask, why are you running such an old version of RT-11?

    V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/
    The file "RT11DV10.ISO.zip" can be UnZipped to obtain a CD image file
    which you can either burn or run directly under SIMH as DU0:. Do you
    require
    the commands for the MSCP device, i.e. DU0:?

    The file "RT11DV10.ISO" may also be run under Ersatz-11 which can be
    downloaded at:
    http://www/dbit.com/pub/e11/

    Sincerely yours,

    Jerome Fine


  2. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    "Jerome H. Fine" scrisse:

    > Jerome Fine replies:
    >
    > The correct command is:
    >
    > SET TT NOCRLF


    thanks

    > Why do you want to use this command?



    because if a program use escape code it goes down every 132 char .

    > If I may ask, why are you running such an old version of RT-11?


    because it is installed in pdp11:
    http://museum.freaknet.org/index.php/PDP-11/34A



  3. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    (snip)

    > If I may ask, why are you running such an old version of RT-11?


    > V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    > http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/


    What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03.

    -- glen


  4. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    In article ,
    glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    > Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    > (snip)
    >
    >> If I may ask, why are you running such an old version of RT-11?

    >
    >> V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    >> http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/

    >
    > What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    > version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03.


    A license just kike the older versions.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  5. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:

    > In article ,
    > glen herrmannsfeldt writes:


    >>Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    >>(snip)


    >>>V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    >>>http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/


    >>What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    >>version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03.


    > A license just kike the older versions.


    Following the previous post, this would be for hobby
    usage only.

    Would a SCSI CD-ROM drive be able to read such a file,
    if transferred to a CD? I only have floppies.

    It would be nice to be able to do a sysgen of 5.03, too.

    -- glen



  6. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    In article ,
    glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >
    >> In article ,
    >> glen herrmannsfeldt writes:

    >
    >>>Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    >>>(snip)

    >
    >>>>V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    >>>>http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/

    >
    >>>What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    >>>version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03.

    >
    >> A license just kike the older versions.

    >
    > Following the previous post, this would be for hobby
    > usage only.


    There has never been a PDP-11 Hobbyist Program that allowed the use
    of any PDP-11 OS other than Unix and Ultrix-11 on real hardware.
    There is a "Mentec Hobbyist License" that allowed the use of certain
    older versions of the OSes on a DEC Emulator. But any reasonable
    interpretation would make its current validity very much in question.

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  7. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    >glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:

    >>> >Jerome H. Fine wrote:

    >>
    >>>> V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    >>>> http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/
    >>>
    >>> What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    >>> version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03

    >>
    >> A license just like the older versions.

    >
    > Following the previous post, this would be for hobby
    > usage only.


    Jerome Fine replies:

    While V05.03 (and prior) versions of RT-11 may be legally run
    by hobby users under SIMH (actually a DEC emulator, but
    SIMH is understood to have now been included), there is NO
    provision for anyone (including hobby users) to legally run on
    real DEC CPUs except by having a license from DEC or now
    Mentec. Sorry - I don't make the laws in the US!

    The last release from Mentec was in October 1988 which will
    be 10 years ago next month. Many software manufacturers
    have decided to place their very old software releases up on
    their web sites for distribution as a recognition of past usage
    and support by their old customers. While Mentec seems to
    have allowed such for releases prior to 1986 (V05.03 of
    RT-11 was released in December 1985), there is no such
    availability for public download for RT-11 releases which
    follow V05.03 of RT-11.

    Alternatively, it is technically possible to make V05.03 of
    RT-11 Y2K compliant, but no hobby user that I know of
    is even interested. And any commercial user that is willing
    to purchase an RT-11 license seems to prefer V05.07 from
    Mentec - which is Y2K compliant - although many bugs
    still remain in V05.07 of RT-11. At the moment, the chances
    of Mentec correcting the bugs seem to range from nil to
    vanishingly small. There seems to be the same interest (in
    having the bugs fixed) from hobby users - at least as far as
    the contacts that I have and the information that I have
    received up to the end of August 2008. And commercial
    users which have managed to continue using their software
    are not interested in fixing bugs which don't seem to be
    causing a problem or for which there is a work around.

    Indeed, I seem to be the only RT-11 addict who still writes
    any new programs which run under RT-11, fixes bugs in
    RT-11 software and writes enhancements for RT-11.
    I welcome anyone who wishes to prove me wrong and
    wants to participate in making RT-11 Y9K compliant.

    > Would a SCSI CD-ROM drive be able to read such a file,
    > if transferred to a CD? I only have floppies.


    I understand that a CD-ROM drive with 512 byte blocks are
    able to read the files under an RT-11 operating system on real
    DEC hardware. I know of more than one person who has the
    required hardware / software configuration.

    On a PC, I have a DVD drive which accepts CDs that is also
    able to read the files. It can read the files either as a CD under
    Windows 98SE (there is an ISO file structure) or under RT-11
    since each of the 4 RT-11 partitions also has an RT-11 file
    structure.

    Alternately, it is possible to use the RT11DV10.ISO file directly
    under SIMH as an RT-11 device. I strongly urge anyone who
    does so to make the device READ ONLY since very destructive
    errors can occur otherwise.

    In addition, PUTR (also from dbit) can be used to copy the RT-11
    files to 3 1/2" RX23 media - or 5 1/4" RX50 or RX33 media.
    You may want some help with the latter media

    >
    > It would be nice to be able to do a sysgen of 5.03, too.
    >
    > -- glen


    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Any other questions.

    Sincerely yours,

    Jerome Fine


  8. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    Jerome H. Fine wrote:

    > While V05.03 (and prior) versions of RT-11 may be legally run
    > by hobby users under SIMH (actually a DEC emulator, but
    > SIMH is understood to have now been included), there is NO
    > provision for anyone (including hobby users) to legally run on
    > real DEC CPUs except by having a license from DEC or now
    > Mentec. Sorry - I don't make the laws in the US!


    Actually, my 11/03 is licensed to V5.1C, as it says on
    the RL-01 disk pack that I have for it. I don't have a
    running RL-01 to read it, though, and I am not very interested
    in trying to get one to run. It originally had a Q-bus
    expansion chassis such that it would have enough slots
    to run the RL-01, but I don't have that one anymore.

    I wouldn't mind a SCSI hard disk or CDROM drive for it.

    -- glen


  9. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 9:13 PM, glen herrmannsfeldt
    wrote:
    > Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    >
    >> While V05.03 (and prior) versions of RT-11 may be legally run
    >> by hobby users under SIMH (actually a DEC emulator, but
    >> SIMH is understood to have now been included), there is NO
    >> provision for anyone (including hobby users) to legally run on
    >> real DEC CPUs except by having a license from DEC or now
    >> Mentec. Sorry - I don't make the laws in the US!

    >
    > Actually, my 11/03 is licensed to V5.1C, as it says on
    > the RL-01 disk pack that I have for it. I don't have a
    > running RL-01 to read it, though, and I am not very interested
    > in trying to get one to run. It originally had a Q-bus
    > expansion chassis such that it would have enough slots
    > to run the RL-01, but I don't have that one anymore.
    >
    > I wouldn't mind a SCSI hard disk or CDROM drive for it.


    Unfortunately, the eras of SCSI and Qbus did not overlap by very much.
    So Qbus SCSI controllers were not made in large volume, and the
    scarce few that remain in the world fetch rather exorbitant prices.

    carl
    --
    carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
    clowenstein@ucsd.edu


  10. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    On 8 Sep 2008 23:56:50 GMT, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
    wrote:

    >In article ,
    > glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article ,
    >>> glen herrmannsfeldt writes:

    >>
    >>>>Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    >>>>(snip)

    >>
    >>>>>V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    >>>>>http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/

    >>
    >>>>What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    >>>>version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03.

    >>
    >>> A license just kike the older versions.

    >>
    >> Following the previous post, this would be for hobby
    >> usage only.

    >
    >There has never been a PDP-11 Hobbyist Program that allowed the use
    >of any PDP-11 OS other than Unix and Ultrix-11 on real hardware.


    I released a (beta) hobbyist version of RUST/SJ in June this year. It
    has most of RT-11 V5.3 (rewritten) plus a lot of other stuff.
    http://www.geocities.com/~hammodotcom/pdp/rust1.zip


    Ian

  11. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    In article <6ilse2FratvqU1@mid.individual.net>,
    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >In article ,
    > glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article ,
    >>> glen herrmannsfeldt writes:

    >>
    >>>>Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    >>>>(snip)

    >>
    >>>>>V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    >>>>>http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/

    >>
    >>>>What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    >>>>version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03.

    >>
    >>> A license just kike the older versions.

    >>
    >> Following the previous post, this would be for hobby
    >> usage only.

    >
    >There has never been a PDP-11 Hobbyist Program that allowed the use
    >of any PDP-11 OS other than Unix and Ultrix-11 on real hardware.
    >There is a "Mentec Hobbyist License" that allowed the use of certain
    >older versions of the OSes on a DEC Emulator. But any reasonable
    >interpretation would make its current validity very much in question.
    >
    >bill
    >
    >
    >--
    >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    >billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    >University of Scranton |
    >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include



    Actually, there's a real question if Ultrix-11 is legal since AFAIK
    DEC had now hobbyist program for it (you can get V7 through PUPS/TUHS
    due to Caldera making it available -- but I'm not sure if the DEC
    license would still be required for their modified V7 -- I know
    there's probably noone at HP who knows or cares about making it
    available.)

    Bill


    --
    --
    Be comforted that in the face of all erridity and disallusionment, and
    despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in
    computer maintainance. --Deteriorata (pechter-at-gmail-dot-com)

  12. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    In article ,
    pechter@pcp09822625pcs.eatntn01.nj.comcast.net (Bill Pechter) writes:
    > In article <6ilse2FratvqU1@mid.individual.net>,
    > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>In article ,
    >> glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> In article ,
    >>>> glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    >>>
    >>>>>Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    >>>>>(snip)
    >>>
    >>>>>>V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    >>>>>>http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/
    >>>
    >>>>>What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    >>>>>version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03.
    >>>
    >>>> A license just kike the older versions.
    >>>
    >>> Following the previous post, this would be for hobby
    >>> usage only.

    >>
    >>There has never been a PDP-11 Hobbyist Program that allowed the use
    >>of any PDP-11 OS other than Unix and Ultrix-11 on real hardware.
    >>There is a "Mentec Hobbyist License" that allowed the use of certain
    >>older versions of the OSes on a DEC Emulator. But any reasonable
    >>interpretation would make its current validity very much in question.
    >>

    >
    > Actually, there's a real question if Ultrix-11 is legal since AFAIK
    > DEC had now hobbyist program for it (you can get V7 through PUPS/TUHS
    > due to Caldera making it available -- but I'm not sure if the DEC
    > license would still be required for their modified V7 -- I know
    > there's probably noone at HP who knows or cares about making it
    > available.)


    There is no question that I have ever seen raised, Who has expressed
    a problem? The only problem I can remember was before the Caldera
    license you needed an AT&T license. But I don't remember DEC ever
    being involved and Ultrix-11 was dead before they went out of business
    so I doubt it was passed on to Compaq or HP.

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  13. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    I think Ultrix-11 certainly fits the class of "abandonware"!

    It was retired before I joined DEC Canada in 1987. So it was
    retired for over 8 years before DEC went to Compaq.

    In the 6 years I was in PDP-11 Software Support with DEC
    Canada, we had 1 call for help from a licensed customer and
    none thereafter when I went to DEC in Colorado.

    If anyone holds the rights, it's HP, but there are precious few
    there who know what a PDP-11 is any more ... I would
    imagine there are precious few there who even know that HP
    sold minis that were in direct competition with DEC!

    I would have no qualms about using Ultrix-11 for hobbyist
    purposes, and if somebody complained, I'd then stop, but at
    this juncture it can't have any commercial value other than
    some nominal $1 to identify that there's IP rights!




  14. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    In article <48C8FE2D.31330.1F8F3C2E@stuart.brook.ca>,
    "Stuart Brook" writes:
    > I think Ultrix-11 certainly fits the class of "abandonware"!


    There is no such legal concept as "abandonware".

    >
    > It was retired before I joined DEC Canada in 1987. So it was
    > retired for over 8 years before DEC went to Compaq.
    >
    > In the 6 years I was in PDP-11 Software Support with DEC
    > Canada, we had 1 call for help from a licensed customer and
    > none thereafter when I went to DEC in Colorado.
    >
    > If anyone holds the rights, it's HP, but there are precious few
    > there who know what a PDP-11 is any more ... I would
    > imagine there are precious few there who even know that HP
    > sold minis that were in direct competition with DEC!
    >
    > I would have no qualms about using Ultrix-11 for hobbyist
    > purposes, and if somebody complained, I'd then stop, but at
    > this juncture it can't have any commercial value other than
    > some nominal $1 to identify that there's IP rights!


    I don't remember when (it was quite some time ago) but I do remember
    Ultrix-11 being specifically mentioned as covered by the Cladera
    License. Prior to that one had to have a real AT&T license (yes, I
    have one here at the University) to even get it from PUPS.

    bill


    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  15. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    There's an interesting treatise on the concept of
    abandonware in Wikipedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

    and you are quite right that there is no such legal status.

    That said, I think it's come down to a case of "Is the copyright
    holder traceable?"

    It's up to the individual to decide whether he wants to violate
    the copyright that exists (particularly since the copyright
    holder probably is not identifiable and there has been no
    evidence that a copyright holder has enforced copyright in
    years and whether there's any real commercial value in the
    product) and risk any attempt at enforcement.

    With a product like Ultrix-11 (as opposed to Ultrix-32) which
    was retired over 20 years ago, the risks look pretty minimal.

    If one chooses to use an unlicensed product that appears
    abandoned (and I don't HAVE a copy of Ultrix-11 to use
    anyway) then clearly the best policy would be don't admit to
    its use in public!

    Note that I'm not advocating using other PDP-11 products
    whose ownership is more clearly defined and was obviously
    supported until recently. i.e. the Mentec suite or MUMPS or
    IAS.




  16. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    In article <48C9200C.29685.20138B46@stuart.brook.ca>,
    "Stuart Brook" writes:
    > There's an interesting treatise on the concept of
    > abandonware in Wikipedia
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware


    And we all know if it's in Wikipedia it has to be true. :-)

    >
    > and you are quite right that there is no such legal status.
    >
    > That said, I think it's come down to a case of "Is the copyright
    > holder traceable?"


    But in a court of law, the only place that matters, the onus is not
    on the copyright holder but on the user.

    >
    > It's up to the individual to decide whether he wants to violate
    > the copyright that exists (particularly since the copyright
    > holder probably is not identifiable and there has been no
    > evidence that a copyright holder has enforced copyright in
    > years and whether there's any real commercial value in the
    > product) and risk any attempt at enforcement.


    I know it was a patent and not a copyright, but I think the courts
    would see them the same, do you remember LZWS and the great Unix
    "compress" debacle. After years of ignoring it the owner suddenly
    shows up and wants it enforced. the courst ruled in their favor.

    >
    > With a product like Ultrix-11 (as opposed to Ultrix-32) which
    > was retired over 20 years ago, the risks look pretty minimal.
    >
    > If one chooses to use an unlicensed product that appears
    > abandoned (and I don't HAVE a copy of Ultrix-11 to use
    > anyway) then clearly the best policy would be don't admit to
    > its use in public!


    Too late for that. A number of us have admited to running it
    and even Y2King it. As I said, until I see otherwise, I was
    told it was covered by the Caldera license.

    >
    > Note that I'm not advocating using other PDP-11 products
    > whose ownership is more clearly defined and was obviously
    > supported until recently. i.e. the Mentec suite or MUMPS or
    > IAS.


    I wasn't aware that MUMPS or IAS have been supported on the PDP-11
    since the time of Ultrix-11. Mentec got the others, but I always
    thought the rest just died. (Well, MUMPS didn't die, it morphed, but
    PDP-11 support for the product died.)

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  17. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 20:37:34 -0400, "Jerome H. Fine"
    wrote:



    >While V05.03 (and prior) versions of RT-11 may be legally run
    >by hobby users under SIMH (actually a DEC emulator, but
    >SIMH is understood to have now been included),


    Understood by whom? No-one here subscribes to that 'understanding' AFAIK; the
    license is specific and unequivocal: if the emulator isn't owned by DEC, you
    can't use the license. DEC (or Compaq or HP) doesn't own SIMH or any other
    emulator, so the license is useless.

    >there is NO
    >provision for anyone (including hobby users) to legally run on
    >real DEC CPUs except by having a license from DEC or now
    >Mentec...


    Or from the previous owner, if you buy/inherit/rescue a system complete with
    software.

    Mike
    --
    http://www.corestore.org
    'As I walk along these shores
    I am the history within'

  18. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    In article <6isppgFc3sfU1@mid.individual.net>,
    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >In article ,
    > pechter@pcp09822625pcs.eatntn01.nj.comcast.net (Bill Pechter) writes:
    >> In article <6ilse2FratvqU1@mid.individual.net>,
    >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>In article ,
    >>> glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    >>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> In article ,
    >>>>> glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>>>Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    >>>>>>(snip)
    >>>>
    >>>>>>>V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    >>>>>>>http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/
    >>>>
    >>>>>>What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    >>>>>>version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03.
    >>>>
    >>>>> A license just kike the older versions.
    >>>>
    >>>> Following the previous post, this would be for hobby
    >>>> usage only.
    >>>
    >>>There has never been a PDP-11 Hobbyist Program that allowed the use
    >>>of any PDP-11 OS other than Unix and Ultrix-11 on real hardware.
    >>>There is a "Mentec Hobbyist License" that allowed the use of certain
    >>>older versions of the OSes on a DEC Emulator. But any reasonable
    >>>interpretation would make its current validity very much in question.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Actually, there's a real question if Ultrix-11 is legal since AFAIK
    >> DEC had now hobbyist program for it (you can get V7 through PUPS/TUHS
    >> due to Caldera making it available -- but I'm not sure if the DEC
    >> license would still be required for their modified V7 -- I know
    >> there's probably noone at HP who knows or cares about making it
    >> available.)

    >
    >There is no question that I have ever seen raised, Who has expressed
    >a problem? The only problem I can remember was before the Caldera
    >license you needed an AT&T license. But I don't remember DEC ever
    >being involved and Ultrix-11 was dead before they went out of business
    >so I doubt it was passed on to Compaq or HP.
    >
    >bill
    >
    >
    >--
    >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    >billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    >University of Scranton |
    >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include


    Ultrix-11 was originally V7-M11 (modified Edition VII) and you needed
    to purchase it from DEC. In addition to the AT&T copyrights were
    DEC copyrights -- so unless they allow it's use and reprotion...
    it's a violation. The name change happened later to allow
    more marketing similarity with Ultrix-32.

    IIRC, DEC sold licenses for it and it wasn't free if you had an AT&T
    source license... It had a support for number of DEC hardware
    drivers and items that weren't in V7...

    That's the problem with abandonware...

    Same thing exists with RT11, RSX11, etc.

    I know your feelings about that, I'm surprised you would recommend
    using Ultrix11.

    Bill
    --
    --
    Be comforted that in the face of all erridity and disallusionment, and
    despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in
    computer maintainance. --Deteriorata (pechter-at-gmail-dot-com)

  19. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    In article ,
    pechter@pcp09822625pcs.eatntn01.nj.comcast.net (Bill Pechter) writes:
    > In article <6isppgFc3sfU1@mid.individual.net>,
    > Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>In article ,
    >> pechter@pcp09822625pcs.eatntn01.nj.comcast.net (Bill Pechter) writes:
    >>> In article <6ilse2FratvqU1@mid.individual.net>,
    >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>In article ,
    >>>> glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    >>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> In article ,
    >>>>>> glen herrmannsfeldt writes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>Jerome H. Fine wrote:
    >>>>>>>(snip)
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>>V05.03 is legally available to hobby users and may be downloaded at:
    >>>>>>>>http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>What do I need to run this on a real LSI-11? I have some older
    >>>>>>>version on floppies, but it would be nice to run 5.03.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> A license just kike the older versions.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Following the previous post, this would be for hobby
    >>>>> usage only.
    >>>>
    >>>>There has never been a PDP-11 Hobbyist Program that allowed the use
    >>>>of any PDP-11 OS other than Unix and Ultrix-11 on real hardware.
    >>>>There is a "Mentec Hobbyist License" that allowed the use of certain
    >>>>older versions of the OSes on a DEC Emulator. But any reasonable
    >>>>interpretation would make its current validity very much in question.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Actually, there's a real question if Ultrix-11 is legal since AFAIK
    >>> DEC had now hobbyist program for it (you can get V7 through PUPS/TUHS
    >>> due to Caldera making it available -- but I'm not sure if the DEC
    >>> license would still be required for their modified V7 -- I know
    >>> there's probably noone at HP who knows or cares about making it
    >>> available.)

    >>
    >>There is no question that I have ever seen raised, Who has expressed
    >>a problem? The only problem I can remember was before the Caldera
    >>license you needed an AT&T license. But I don't remember DEC ever
    >>being involved and Ultrix-11 was dead before they went out of business
    >>so I doubt it was passed on to Compaq or HP.
    >>
    >>bill
    >>
    >>
    >>--
    >>Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    >>billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    >>University of Scranton |
    >>Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

    >
    > Ultrix-11 was originally V7-M11 (modified Edition VII) and you needed
    > to purchase it from DEC. In addition to the AT&T copyrights were
    > DEC copyrights -- so unless they allow it's use and reprotion...
    > it's a violation. The name change happened later to allow
    > more marketing similarity with Ultrix-32.
    >
    > IIRC, DEC sold licenses for it and it wasn't free if you had an AT&T
    > source license... It had a support for number of DEC hardware
    > drivers and items that weren't in V7...
    >
    > That's the problem with abandonware...
    >
    > Same thing exists with RT11, RSX11, etc.
    >
    > I know your feelings about that, I'm surprised you would recommend
    > using Ultrix11.


    Well, maybe they were mistaken, but according to PUPS (several yearfs ago)
    Ultrix-11 was declared as covered by the Caldera License. Maybe they
    spoke with the DEC/Compaq/HP whoever was in charge at the time and were
    told they could do this. Probably worth going back and asking Warren
    for a clarification.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  20. Re: set NOCRLF on RT-11

    On 13 Sep 2008 13:18:57 GMT, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    [RE Ultrix-11]
    >
    >Well, maybe they were mistaken, but according to PUPS (several yearfs ago)
    >Ultrix-11 was declared as covered by the Caldera License. Maybe they
    >spoke with the DEC/Compaq/HP whoever was in charge at the time and were
    >told they could do this. Probably worth going back and asking Warren
    >for a clarification.


    The Caldera license I have says:

    32-bit 32V UNIX
    16 bit UNIX Versions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

    No mention of Ultrix.
    --
    Cheers,
    Stan Barr t-bone .at. dial .dot. pipex .dot. com

    The future was never like this!

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast