Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1? - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1? - VMS ; From: tadamsmar > It is stupid of me to mock the people who I am asking to help me! Or do a better job of it. > The question of how well CDRECORD will work on VMS 7.2-1 seems a ...

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Thread: Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?

  1. Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?

    From: tadamsmar

    > It is stupid of me to mock the people who I am asking to help me!


    Or do a better job of it.

    > The question of how well CDRECORD will work on VMS 7.2-1 seems a bit
    > murky to me. But I am going to have to launch into an attempt to buy
    > the software and hardware to do it.


    Ifr you can get it built, I'd expect it to work.

    > I had posted earlier on this topic and the info I got form that left
    > me concerned with that 7.2-1 has some sort of unspecified limited
    > support for CDRECORD.


    Are you looking for _support_ or for a solution which works?

    > I will probably buy a DVR writer and some sort of SCSI converter to
    > connect via the SCSI port. Some earlier info seems to imply that the
    > USB port on the DS10 Alphaserver would be slow if it works at all for
    > this purpose.


    The IDE interface might be slow. Getting any USB stuff to work at
    VMS V7.2-1 might be worse than slow. At V8.3, the USB stuff seems to
    work well enough for my purposes, but I haven't tried a USB DVD writer.

    > Then I guess I might have to locate a driver for this converter set
    > up.


    You expect to find a VMS driver for anything not supplied by HP?
    Good luck. If the adapter works without additional software, then you
    might have a chance.

    > And I will install a version of CDRECORD.


    I'd start there.

    > And then wade through all this an try to make it work.


    Be careful. I hear that it's possible to drown in a pool only a few
    centimeters deep.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info
    382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
    Saint Paul MN 55105-2547

  2. Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?

    On Sep 2, 3:09*pm, s...@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:
    > From: tadamsmar
    >
    > > It is stupid of me to mock the people who I am asking to help me!

    >
    > * *Or do a better job of it.
    >
    > > The question of how well CDRECORD will work on VMS 7.2-1 seems a bit
    > > murky to me. *But I am going to have to launch into an attempt to buy
    > > the software and hardware to do it.

    >
    > * *Ifr you can get it built, I'd expect it to work.
    >
    > > I had posted earlier on this topic and the info I got form that left
    > > me concerned with that 7.2-1 has some sort of unspecified limited
    > > support for CDRECORD.

    >
    > * *Are you looking for _support_ or for a solution which works?
    >
    > > I will probably buy a DVR writer and some sort of SCSI converter to
    > > connect via the SCSI port. *Some earlier info seems to imply that the
    > > USB port on the DS10 Alphaserver would be slow if it works at all for
    > > this purpose.

    >
    > * *The IDE interface might be slow. *Getting any USB stuff to work at
    > VMS V7.2-1 might be worse than slow. *At V8.3, the USB stuff seems to
    > work well enough for my purposes, but I haven't tried a USB DVD writer.
    >
    > > Then I guess I might have to locate a driver for this converter set
    > > up.

    >
    > * *You expect to find a VMS driver for anything not supplied by HP?
    > Good luck. *If the adapter works without additional software, then you
    > might have a chance.
    >
    > > And I will install a version of CDRECORD.

    >
    > * *I'd start there.
    >
    > > And then wade through all this an try to make it work.

    >
    > * *Be careful. *I hear that it's possible to drown in a pool only afew
    > centimeters deep.
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > * *Steven M. Schweda * * * * * * * sms@antinode-info
    > * *382 South Warwick Street * * * *(+1) 651-699-9818
    > * *Saint Paul *MN *55105-2547


    OK, now that I am on the waterboard and beginning to feel simulated
    drowning, I will tell you what I really want to do.

    We had an old 1300T optical disk drive we were using for backups. It
    went belly up and this DVD proposal came up.

    The idea of buying a refurb 1300T did not fly.

    This is for long-term archives where (the assumption is) DDS-3 tapes
    would not last long enough, or be more subject to erasure.

    So, what is a good option for such storage other than a 1300T? I
    might be able to get the DVD decision undone if there was an easier or
    better option.

  3. Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?

    On Sep 2, 8:53 pm, tadamsmar wrote:
    > On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, s...@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > From: tadamsmar

    >
    > > > It is stupid of me to mock the people who I am asking to help me!

    >
    > > Or do a better job of it.

    >
    > > > The question of how well CDRECORD will work on VMS 7.2-1 seems a bit
    > > > murky to me. But I am going to have to launch into an attempt to buy
    > > > the software and hardware to do it.

    >
    > > Ifr you can get it built, I'd expect it to work.

    >
    > > > I had posted earlier on this topic and the info I got form that left
    > > > me concerned with that 7.2-1 has some sort of unspecified limited
    > > > support for CDRECORD.

    >
    > > Are you looking for _support_ or for a solution which works?

    >
    > > > I will probably buy a DVR writer and some sort of SCSI converter to
    > > > connect via the SCSI port. Some earlier info seems to imply that the
    > > > USB port on the DS10 Alphaserver would be slow if it works at all for
    > > > this purpose.

    >
    > > The IDE interface might be slow. Getting any USB stuff to work at
    > > VMS V7.2-1 might be worse than slow. At V8.3, the USB stuff seems to
    > > work well enough for my purposes, but I haven't tried a USB DVD writer.

    >
    > > > Then I guess I might have to locate a driver for this converter set
    > > > up.

    >
    > > You expect to find a VMS driver for anything not supplied by HP?
    > > Good luck. If the adapter works without additional software, then you
    > > might have a chance.

    >
    > > > And I will install a version of CDRECORD.

    >
    > > I'd start there.

    >
    > > > And then wade through all this an try to make it work.

    >
    > > Be careful. I hear that it's possible to drown in a pool only a few
    > > centimeters deep.

    >
    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    >
    > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info
    > > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
    > > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547

    >
    > OK, now that I am on the waterboard and beginning to feel simulated
    > drowning, I will tell you what I really want to do.
    >
    > We had an old 1300T optical disk drive we were using for backups. It
    > went belly up and this DVD proposal came up.
    >
    > The idea of buying a refurb 1300T did not fly.
    >
    > This is for long-term archives where (the assumption is) DDS-3 tapes
    > would not last long enough, or be more subject to erasure.
    >
    > So, what is a good option for such storage other than a 1300T? I
    > might be able to get the DVD decision undone if there was an easier or
    > better option.


    Routine backup/restore is not necessarily the same as long-term
    archiving with occasional retrieval. For example, for archiving, you
    may well wish to think about handing your data over to a professional
    archive contractor on some mutually convenient interchange format and
    require *them* to worry about long term storage and retrieval. That
    surely wouldn't appeal, or make sense, for the routine daily/weekly/
    monthly backups.

    Subcontracting out the long term storage+retrieval may become
    particularly appealing if there are any legal requirements for
    "records retention" in the picture; if you sub it out, to an extent
    the long term readability issues become "someone else's problem" (at
    least as far as management are concerned).

    Mind you, when your archival contractor decides that their long term
    storage format for CD/DVD "ISO" images is a hard drive on a server,
    and then the server is sold with an intact unerased hard drive on
    eBay... best say no more, lawyers may be reading:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08..._details_lost/

  4. Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?

    On Sep 2, 4:18*pm, johnwalla...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
    > On Sep 2, 8:53 pm,tadamsmar wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, s...@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:

    >
    > > > From:tadamsmar

    >
    > > > > It is stupid of me to mock the people who I am asking to help me!

    >
    > > > * *Or do a better job of it.

    >
    > > > > The question of how well CDRECORD will work on VMS 7.2-1 seems a bit
    > > > > murky to me. *But I am going to have to launch into an attempt tobuy
    > > > > the software and hardware to do it.

    >
    > > > * *Ifr you can get it built, I'd expect it to work.

    >
    > > > > I had posted earlier on this topic and the info I got form that left
    > > > > me concerned with that 7.2-1 has some sort of unspecified limited
    > > > > support for CDRECORD.

    >
    > > > * *Are you looking for _support_ or for a solution which works?

    >
    > > > > I will probably buy a DVR writer and some sort of SCSI converter to
    > > > > connect via the SCSI port. *Some earlier info seems to imply thatthe
    > > > > USB port on the DS10 Alphaserver would be slow if it works at all for
    > > > > this purpose.

    >
    > > > * *The IDE interface might be slow. *Getting any USB stuff to work at
    > > > VMS V7.2-1 might be worse than slow. *At V8.3, the USB stuff seems to
    > > > work well enough for my purposes, but I haven't tried a USB DVD writer.

    >
    > > > > Then I guess I might have to locate a driver for this converter set
    > > > > up.

    >
    > > > * *You expect to find a VMS driver for anything not supplied by HP?
    > > > Good luck. *If the adapter works without additional software, then you
    > > > might have a chance.

    >
    > > > > And I will install a version of CDRECORD.

    >
    > > > * *I'd start there.

    >
    > > > > And then wade through all this an try to make it work.

    >
    > > > * *Be careful. *I hear that it's possible to drown in a pool only a few
    > > > centimeters deep.

    >
    > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    >
    > > > * *Steven M. Schweda * * * * * * * sms@antinode-info
    > > > * *382 South Warwick Street * * * *(+1) 651-699-9818
    > > > * *Saint Paul *MN *55105-2547

    >
    > > OK, now that I am on the waterboard and beginning to feel simulated
    > > drowning, I will tell you what I really want to do.

    >
    > > We had an old 1300T optical disk drive we were using for backups. *It
    > > went belly up and this DVD proposal came up.

    >
    > > The idea of buying a refurb 1300T did not fly.

    >
    > > This is for long-term archives where (the assumption is) DDS-3 tapes
    > > would not last long enough, or be more subject to erasure.

    >
    > > So, what is a good option for such storage other than a 1300T? *I
    > > might be able to get the DVD decision undone if there was an easier or
    > > better option.

    >
    > Routine backup/restore is not necessarily the same as long-term
    > archiving with occasional retrieval. For example, for archiving, you
    > may well wish to think about handing your data over to a professional
    > archive contractor on some mutually convenient interchange format and
    > require *them* to worry about long term storage and retrieval. That
    > surely wouldn't appeal, or make sense, for the routine daily/weekly/
    > monthly backups.
    >
    > Subcontracting out the long term storage+retrieval may become
    > particularly appealing if there are any legal requirements for
    > "records retention" in the picture; if you sub it out, to an extent
    > the long term readability issues become "someone else's problem" (at
    > least as far as management are concerned).
    >
    > Mind you, when your archival contractor decides that their long term
    > storage format for CD/DVD "ISO" images is a hard drive on a server,
    > and then the server is sold with an intact unerased hard drive on
    > eBay... best say no more, lawyers may be reading:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08...details_lost/- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Good idea, but I am sure my management will not go for an outside
    contractor.

  5. Re: Can you record DVDs on OpenVMS 7.2-1?

    tadamsmar wrote:

    >
    > OK, now that I am on the waterboard and beginning to feel simulated
    > drowning, I will tell you what I really want to do.
    >
    > We had an old 1300T optical disk drive we were using for backups. It
    > went belly up and this DVD proposal came up.
    >
    > The idea of buying a refurb 1300T did not fly.
    >
    > This is for long-term archives where (the assumption is) DDS-3 tapes
    > would not last long enough, or be more subject to erasure.
    >
    > So, what is a good option for such storage other than a 1300T? I
    > might be able to get the DVD decision undone if there was an easier or
    > better option.


    I am not familiar with the 1300T optical disk drive, but you have said
    enough that I think I understand what is happening. The 1300T broke,
    and management doesn't want to replace it, but instead use something
    less expensive. The less expensive alternative needs to be better than
    DDS-3 tapes. You are exploring using writable DVDs as that alternative.

    I went down this same path on my PC, looking for an inexpensive way to
    back up my photography collection. I discovered that writable DVDs are
    very unreliable. Here is the backup procedure I created to compensate
    for that unreliability:

    1. Create a backup save set (compressed tar file), and compute its
    SHA-512 checksum.
    2. Divide the backup save set into 2 GiB chunks, and compute the
    SHA-512 checksum for each. All the checksums go into a small file.
    3. Create a directory for each chunk, containing the chunk file and a
    copy of the small checksum file.
    4. Create an ISO 9660 file from each directory.
    5. Using dvdisaster, add redundancy information to each ISO 9660 file,
    expanding it from just over 2 GiB to the size of a DVD, about 4.7 GB.
    6. Write each DVD from its ISO 9660 file, then mount it and verify that
    the chunk's SHA-512 checksum matches the value computed in step 2. If
    it doesn't, or if there are any errors trying to read the disk, discard
    the DVD and write the ISO 9660 file to another. This is copy A of the
    data.
    7. Write all the ISO 9660 files to DVD again, checking each one the same
    way as in step 6. This is copy B of the data.

    Here is the restore procedure:

    1. Read each chunk from the A DVD. If the read fails, use dvdisaster to
    apply the redundancy codes to attempt to recover the data. If that
    fails, let dvdisaster fill in the unreadable sectors from the B DVD.
    2. Verify that the SHA-512 checksums of the chunks match the value
    recorded in the checksum file. For those that don't, repeat step 1 but
    start with the B DVD.
    3. Concatenate the chunks together into the backup save set, and verify
    its SHA-512 checksum.

    I found when backing up that around one out of every 5 or 10 DVDs would
    be discarded. I didn't have any troubles when reading, but I didn't do
    a long-term test. Before depending on this (or any) archive procedure,
    you should test it to be sure the data can in fact be retrieved from
    media that has been stored for as long as you wish the data to be held.

    The problem with my DVD backup procedure is that you get effectively 1
    GiB per DVD. That requires a lot of disk changing, which gets old very
    quickly. I was unable to find an affordable DVD changer for which the
    manufacturer would reveal the programming interface, so I gave up this
    approach.
    John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com)


  6. Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?

    In article
    <9eb7ef69-4037-4a7e-93a0-7f574ff5bf68@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
    johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

    > Mind you, when your archival contractor decides that their long term
    > storage format for CD/DVD "ISO" images is a hard drive on a server,
    > and then the server is sold with an intact unerased hard drive on
    > eBay... best say no more, lawyers may be reading:
    > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08..._details_lost/


    I couldn't help a cynical smile at one of the comments to that article
    at:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08...lost/comments/

    "Now I have no need to buy a shredder.

    Why bother shredding sensitive data when the banks give it away!"

    But on a more practical note, I have had substantial problems in the
    past with data entrusted to third parties for forwarding to customers /
    suppliers (tape conversions etc) or for safe keeping (legal
    requirements), as the data often gets mangled along the way. Some of
    those third parties were just a different department in the same company
    BTW.

    --
    Paul Sture

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