Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000? - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000? - VMS ; From: "***** charles" > Hi, this seems to be the right group. I came across a DEC Server 3000 What does it _actually_ say on the front? Sounds like one of the "white-box" systems intended for Windows NT (only). > ...

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Thread: Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

  1. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    From: "***** charles"

    > Hi, this seems to be the right group. I came across a DEC Server 3000


    What does it _actually_ say on the front? Sounds like one of the
    "white-box" systems intended for Windows NT (only).

    > FR-K7F4W-AB with a 500MHz alpha chip and one stick of 128M of ram and I
    > don't know how big the hard drive is yet. I have fired it up, white letters
    > on a blue background and the final prompt is >>>. I know a bit about a lot
    > of architectures but this is my first alpha so I am stumped. The guy that I
    > got it from said it would run VMS but I don't know how to get it that far if
    > that is true. Any other ideas?


    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/index.html
    http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/
    http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/
    [...]

    >>>help
    >>>boot


    http://hoffmanlabs.org/vmsfaq/

    > I understand that this machine will go to
    > 1G of ram (2 sitcks of 512M each). Anyone know where I could get some of
    > this cheap?


    Ebay?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info
    382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
    Saint Paul MN 55105-2547

  2. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in message
    news:08081308321926_20200492@antinode.info...
    > From: "***** charles"
    >
    >> Hi, this seems to be the right group. I came across a DEC Server 3000

    >
    > What does it _actually_ say on the front? Sounds like one of the
    > "white-box" systems intended for Windows NT (only).
    >
    >> FR-K7F4W-AB with a 500MHz alpha chip and one stick of 128M of ram and I
    >> don't know how big the hard drive is yet. I have fired it up, white
    >> letters
    >> on a blue background and the final prompt is >>>. I know a bit about a
    >> lot
    >> of architectures but this is my first alpha so I am stumped. The guy
    >> that I
    >> got it from said it would run VMS but I don't know how to get it that far
    >> if
    >> that is true. Any other ideas?

    >
    > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/index.html
    > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/
    > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/
    > [...]
    >
    > >>>help
    > >>>boot

    >
    > http://hoffmanlabs.org/vmsfaq/
    >
    >> I understand that this machine will go to
    >> 1G of ram (2 sitcks of 512M each). Anyone know where I could get some of
    >> this cheap?

    >
    > Ebay?


    Well, after lots of surfing I was able to determine the following:

    1. on the front it says DIGITAL Server 3000 and on the back
    the model number is FR-K7F4W-AB I haven't been able to
    determine if this is supposed to be NT only or not. I am
    downloading a Debian Linux install networking cd. I did try
    the boot command to the scsi controller and it booted to
    NetBSD which will be replaced as soon as I can burn the
    Debian cd. From further research I am thinking that this
    box might be a 3305 but it does not say that anywhere. It
    does have a 500MHz alpha chip in it 21164A-2. The
    prompt >>> should indicate that the box is not the NT only
    box I have been reading about.
    show version gives:
    V5.4-U3 March 24 1999 12:39:17
    show pal gives:
    VMS PALcode V1.20-3
    OSF PALcode V1.22-5
    show config gives:
    slot5 QLogic ISP1020 pka0.7.0.5.0 scsi bus id 7
    dka100.1.0.5.0 Quantum XP34550J
    dka400.4.0.5.0 RRD46 scsi cd-rom
    slot6 S3 Trio 64/Trio32
    slot7 Intel 82375 Bridge to Bus1, EISA
    slot11 DE500-BA Network Con ewa0.0.0.11.0 00-00-F8-08-F4-F3

    2. What do most of the people who have one of these things have on them
    OS wise? Linux, BSD, OpenVMS, DigitalUnix or whatever?

    3. How do I update to the last BIOS or however you say it in the dec world?
    I understand there is a V5.8 out.

    4. What is the biggest scsi drive I can stick in this thing and just have it
    work?
    How many of them can I string togetther inside the box?

    5. When looking at stuff and the Internet it is difficulet to tell if what I
    am
    reading is relevant or not, confused on exactly what the box is.

    6. I have been thinking of just setting up a server for "stuff" on my
    local net but I am also thinking that the electricity to run this thing
    might be a little high vs. a cheap low power x86 clone server.

    Hope the above helps you help me.

    thanks,
    charles.....



  3. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    On Aug 13, 7:28 pm, "***** charles" wrote:
    > "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in messagenews:08081308321926_20200492@antinode.info. ..
    >
    >
    >
    > > From: "***** charles"

    >
    > >> Hi, this seems to be the right group. I came across a DEC Server 3000

    >
    > > What does it _actually_ say on the front? Sounds like one of the
    > > "white-box" systems intended for Windows NT (only).

    >
    > >> FR-K7F4W-AB with a 500MHz alpha chip and one stick of 128M of ram and I
    > >> don't know how big the hard drive is yet. I have fired it up, white
    > >> letters
    > >> on a blue background and the final prompt is >>>. I know a bit about a
    > >> lot
    > >> of architectures but this is my first alpha so I am stumped. The guy
    > >> that I
    > >> got it from said it would run VMS but I don't know how to get it that far
    > >> if
    > >> that is true. Any other ideas?

    >
    > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/index.html
    > > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/
    > > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/
    > > [...]

    >
    > > >>>help
    > > >>>boot

    >
    > > http://hoffmanlabs.org/vmsfaq/

    >
    > >> I understand that this machine will go to
    > >> 1G of ram (2 sitcks of 512M each). Anyone know where I could get some of
    > >> this cheap?

    >
    > > Ebay?

    >
    > Well, after lots of surfing I was able to determine the following:
    >
    > 1. on the front it says DIGITAL Server 3000 and on the back
    > the model number is FR-K7F4W-AB I haven't been able to
    > determine if this is supposed to be NT only or not. I am
    > downloading a Debian Linux install networking cd. I did try
    > the boot command to the scsi controller and it booted to
    > NetBSD which will be replaced as soon as I can burn the
    > Debian cd. From further research I am thinking that this
    > box might be a 3305 but it does not say that anywhere. It
    > does have a 500MHz alpha chip in it 21164A-2. The
    > prompt >>> should indicate that the box is not the NT only
    > box I have been reading about.
    > show version gives:
    > V5.4-U3 March 24 1999 12:39:17
    > show pal gives:
    > VMS PALcode V1.20-3
    > OSF PALcode V1.22-5
    > show config gives:
    > slot5 QLogic ISP1020 pka0.7.0.5.0 scsi bus id 7
    > dka100.1.0.5.0 Quantum XP34550J
    > dka400.4.0.5.0 RRD46 scsi cd-rom
    > slot6 S3 Trio 64/Trio32
    > slot7 Intel 82375 Bridge to Bus1, EISA
    > slot11 DE500-BA Network Con ewa0.0.0.11.0 00-00-F8-08-F4-F3
    >
    > 2. What do most of the people who have one of these things have on them
    > OS wise? Linux, BSD, OpenVMS, DigitalUnix or whatever?
    >
    > 3. How do I update to the last BIOS or however you say it in the dec world?
    > I understand there is a V5.8 out.
    >
    > 4. What is the biggest scsi drive I can stick in this thing and just have it
    > work?
    > How many of them can I string togetther inside the box?
    >
    > 5. When looking at stuff and the Internet it is difficulet to tell if what I
    > am
    > reading is relevant or not, confused on exactly what the box is.
    >
    > 6. I have been thinking of just setting up a server for "stuff" on my
    > local net but I am also thinking that the electricity to run this thing
    > might be a little high vs. a cheap low power x86 clone server.
    >
    > Hope the above helps you help me.
    >
    > thanks,
    > charles.....


    You've done a lot of surfing but you're still confused. Am I safe to
    assume that means you haven't visited http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/3300/
    ? Links from that page include "Configuration list" which has on it
    the very part number you mention (brief description is "500 MHz Alpha
    processor, 2MB cache, 128MB ECC memory, 4GB SCSI HDD, Windows NT 4.0
    Server"). There are also links for specifications, documentation,
    firmware (not really BIOS but...).

    It's apparently a Digital Server 3305, which were also known as the
    AlphaServer 800 for Windows NT. The ones sold for Windows NT came in
    Frost White, and those sold (as AlphaServer 800s) for VMS and Unix
    came in Top Gun Blue.

    There are detailed specifications linked from the page I mentioned
    above. The first and last sets of PDF and Word documents on the
    Specifications (ie "Systems and Options Archive") page appear corrupt
    (or maybe the server is confused - IIS 5.0???), but some are readable
    (eg http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/q...C/QB00P4PF.PDF)
    and although there may have been changes in detail and in part numbers
    over the life of the product, the basic stuff is likely to have
    remained mostly unchanged. The documentation page includes a link to a
    ~200-page service guide; if you feel like understanding the innards in
    a bit more depth, this is probably worth a read.

    As you've got one, and as it so far seems potentially capable of
    running VMS, you probably should run VMS on it. But if you really just
    want a simple domestic fileserver, or a basic Linux/BSD/whatever box,
    it's probably not an ideal choice and you might be better off finding
    it a home with someone with an interest in VMS and then finding
    yourself a more appropriate x86 box.

    Note that this is a server-class system with PCI and EISA slots (not
    ISA) and ECC memory(true 36bit, not 32bit). In its day, this was a
    *good* thing, but today it may make life trickier as the bits will be
    rarer. It takes up to 2GB of 60ns/3.3V EDO ECC DIMM ECC memory. I
    can't recall what happens if you try 32bit memory but "fake parity"
    memory which uses logic to synthesise the parity on reads (rather than
    chips to store the parity on writes) will not work.

    Did the system come with the EISA Config Utility on floppy? My vague
    recollection is that some weird config-related problems required the
    user to run the ECU to update the config info somewhere in the system.
    Hopefully that won't be necessary here. Also note that the same
    hardware under different OSes (eg WinNT vs VMS) would have different
    ECU settings, so even if the system config was right for NT when it
    left its last owner, it may by now be wrong for VMS (can that really
    be right? It's what I recall...).

    Depending on your aims, you might want to try to get hold of a
    slightly better PCI graphics card. I got rid of one not long ago (from
    memory it wasn't a VMS-supported one though, there weren't that many
    of those around).

    Welcome to the world of VMS, and good luck. Or as they say in the land
    of SuSe, "have a lot of fun".

  4. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    On 13 aug, 20:28, "***** charles" wrote:
    > "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in messagenews:08081308321926_20200492@antinode.info. ..
    >
    >
    >
    > > From: "***** charles"

    >
    > >> Hi, this seems to be the right group. I came across a DEC Server 3000


    [snip]

    > 1. on the front it says DIGITAL Server 3000 and on the back
    > the model number is FR-K7F4W-AB I haven't been able to
    > determine if this is supposed to be NT only or not. I am
    > downloading a Debian Linux install networking cd. I did try
    > the boot command to the scsi controller and it booted to
    > NetBSD which will be replaced as soon as I can burn the
    > Debian cd. From further research I am thinking that this
    > box might be a 3305 but it does not say that anywhere. It
    > does have a 500MHz alpha chip in it 21164A-2. The
    > prompt >>> should indicate that the box is not the NT only
    > box I have been reading about.
    > show version gives:
    > V5.4-U3 March 24 1999 12:39:17
    > show pal gives:
    > VMS PALcode V1.20-3
    > OSF PALcode V1.22-5
    > show config gives:
    > slot5 QLogic ISP1020 pka0.7.0.5.0 scsi bus id 7
    > dka100.1.0.5.0 Quantum XP34550J
    > dka400.4.0.5.0 RRD46 scsi cd-rom
    > slot6 S3 Trio 64/Trio32
    > slot7 Intel 82375 Bridge to Bus1, EISA
    > slot11 DE500-BA Network Con ewa0.0.0.11.0 00-00-F8-08-F4-F3
    >


    If it has a 500MHz cpu then it is a 3305 system (or a 3305R for a rack
    mountable unit).
    The disks are SCSI. The lower bay can hold up to four SCA drives and
    require a disk tray that is unique for the AS800/DS3000 series. The
    device listing indicates that one slot is now occupied. There are
    three 5.25 inch slots in the top half of the cabinet. They are wired
    with 50 pin SCSI-2 connectors. One slot is used by the CDROM drive.


    > 2. What do most of the people who have one of these things have on them
    > OS wise? Linux, BSD, OpenVMS, DigitalUnix or whatever?


    In my case, the system runs VMS V7.3 or Tru64 5.0A. I have two sets of
    four disks for each OS. Most of the time it runs Tru64 because I never
    found time to try Tru64 on one of the Digital Server 5305's. If you
    can get Tru64 there's no need to try Linux imho.

    >
    > 3. How do I update to the last BIOS or however you say it in the dec world?
    > I understand there is a V5.8 out.


    Go to the HP website and download both the instructions and the
    firmware kits.
    http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserve...mes/as800.html
    Note that there is, no difference in hardware and software between the
    DS3000 and the AS800.
    The only difference is the damage done to the white box firmware to
    prevent them booting VMS or Tru64.
    A very simple procedure remedies this defect :-)
    One note however: DEC/HP/Compaq will never service nor support a white
    box Alpha that runs VMS or Tru64.

    >
    > 4. What is the biggest scsi drive I can stick in this thing and just have it
    > work?
    > How many of them can I string togetther inside the box?


    Internally the system can handle up to four SCSI SCA disks, provides
    you have the trays that are specific (and unique in the DEC world) for
    this system.
    The top bays are wired for two disks, so 6 disks in total.
    Put in another SCSI controller and you can attach as many drives as
    you like.
    Max drive size was 36 GB iirc for the SCA slots.

    >
    > 5. When looking at stuff and the Internet it is difficulet to tell if what I
    > am
    > reading is relevant or not, confused on exactly what the box is.


    Go to HP, serves, Alpha systems, retired systems and look for
    documentation and downloads.
    >
    > 6. I have been thinking of just setting up a server for "stuff" on my
    > local net but I am also thinking that the electricity to run this thing
    > might be a little high vs. a cheap low power x86 clone server.


    It's more power hungry than an x86 box, otoh it's a lot more fun :-)

    Hans
    >
    > Hope the above helps you help me.
    >
    > thanks,
    > charles.....



  5. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    Thanks for the response, I think the "white boxes" were limited to
    Windows NT. The "blue boxes" were the good ones.

    later.....

    wrote in message
    news:f9944b3f-2e15-49e4-ad09-8d3c95733aae@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
    > On Aug 13, 7:28 pm, "***** charles" wrote:
    >> "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in
    >> messagenews:08081308321926_20200492@antinode.info. ..
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > From: "***** charles"

    >>
    >> >> Hi, this seems to be the right group. I came across a DEC Server 3000

    >>
    >> > What does it _actually_ say on the front? Sounds like one of the
    >> > "white-box" systems intended for Windows NT (only).

    >>
    >> >> FR-K7F4W-AB with a 500MHz alpha chip and one stick of 128M of ram and
    >> >> I
    >> >> don't know how big the hard drive is yet. I have fired it up, white
    >> >> letters
    >> >> on a blue background and the final prompt is >>>. I know a bit about
    >> >> a
    >> >> lot
    >> >> of architectures but this is my first alpha so I am stumped. The guy
    >> >> that I
    >> >> got it from said it would run VMS but I don't know how to get it that
    >> >> far
    >> >> if
    >> >> that is true. Any other ideas?

    >>
    >> > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/index.html
    >> > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/
    >> > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/
    >> > [...]

    >>
    >> > >>>help
    >> > >>>boot

    >>
    >> > http://hoffmanlabs.org/vmsfaq/

    >>
    >> >> I understand that this machine will go to
    >> >> 1G of ram (2 sitcks of 512M each). Anyone know where I could get some
    >> >> of
    >> >> this cheap?

    >>
    >> > Ebay?

    >>
    >> Well, after lots of surfing I was able to determine the following:
    >>
    >> 1. on the front it says DIGITAL Server 3000 and on the back
    >> the model number is FR-K7F4W-AB I haven't been able to
    >> determine if this is supposed to be NT only or not. I am
    >> downloading a Debian Linux install networking cd. I did try
    >> the boot command to the scsi controller and it booted to
    >> NetBSD which will be replaced as soon as I can burn the
    >> Debian cd. From further research I am thinking that this
    >> box might be a 3305 but it does not say that anywhere. It
    >> does have a 500MHz alpha chip in it 21164A-2. The
    >> prompt >>> should indicate that the box is not the NT only
    >> box I have been reading about.
    >> show version gives:
    >> V5.4-U3 March 24 1999 12:39:17
    >> show pal gives:
    >> VMS PALcode V1.20-3
    >> OSF PALcode V1.22-5
    >> show config gives:
    >> slot5 QLogic ISP1020 pka0.7.0.5.0 scsi bus id 7
    >> dka100.1.0.5.0 Quantum
    >> XP34550J
    >> dka400.4.0.5.0 RRD46 scsi
    >> cd-rom
    >> slot6 S3 Trio 64/Trio32
    >> slot7 Intel 82375 Bridge to Bus1, EISA
    >> slot11 DE500-BA Network Con ewa0.0.0.11.0 00-00-F8-08-F4-F3
    >>
    >> 2. What do most of the people who have one of these things have on them
    >> OS wise? Linux, BSD, OpenVMS, DigitalUnix or whatever?
    >>
    >> 3. How do I update to the last BIOS or however you say it in the dec
    >> world?
    >> I understand there is a V5.8 out.
    >>
    >> 4. What is the biggest scsi drive I can stick in this thing and just have
    >> it
    >> work?
    >> How many of them can I string togetther inside the box?
    >>
    >> 5. When looking at stuff and the Internet it is difficulet to tell if
    >> what I
    >> am
    >> reading is relevant or not, confused on exactly what the box is.
    >>
    >> 6. I have been thinking of just setting up a server for "stuff" on my
    >> local net but I am also thinking that the electricity to run this
    >> thing
    >> might be a little high vs. a cheap low power x86 clone server.
    >>
    >> Hope the above helps you help me.
    >>
    >> thanks,
    >> charles.....

    >
    > You've done a lot of surfing but you're still confused. Am I safe to
    > assume that means you haven't visited
    > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/3300/
    > ? Links from that page include "Configuration list" which has on it
    > the very part number you mention (brief description is "500 MHz Alpha
    > processor, 2MB cache, 128MB ECC memory, 4GB SCSI HDD, Windows NT 4.0
    > Server"). There are also links for specifications, documentation,
    > firmware (not really BIOS but...).
    >
    > It's apparently a Digital Server 3305, which were also known as the
    > AlphaServer 800 for Windows NT. The ones sold for Windows NT came in
    > Frost White, and those sold (as AlphaServer 800s) for VMS and Unix
    > came in Top Gun Blue.
    >
    > There are detailed specifications linked from the page I mentioned
    > above. The first and last sets of PDF and Word documents on the
    > Specifications (ie "Systems and Options Archive") page appear corrupt
    > (or maybe the server is confused - IIS 5.0???), but some are readable
    > (eg http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/q...C/QB00P4PF.PDF)
    > and although there may have been changes in detail and in part numbers
    > over the life of the product, the basic stuff is likely to have
    > remained mostly unchanged. The documentation page includes a link to a
    > ~200-page service guide; if you feel like understanding the innards in
    > a bit more depth, this is probably worth a read.
    >
    > As you've got one, and as it so far seems potentially capable of
    > running VMS, you probably should run VMS on it. But if you really just
    > want a simple domestic fileserver, or a basic Linux/BSD/whatever box,
    > it's probably not an ideal choice and you might be better off finding
    > it a home with someone with an interest in VMS and then finding
    > yourself a more appropriate x86 box.
    >
    > Note that this is a server-class system with PCI and EISA slots (not
    > ISA) and ECC memory(true 36bit, not 32bit). In its day, this was a
    > *good* thing, but today it may make life trickier as the bits will be
    > rarer. It takes up to 2GB of 60ns/3.3V EDO ECC DIMM ECC memory. I
    > can't recall what happens if you try 32bit memory but "fake parity"
    > memory which uses logic to synthesise the parity on reads (rather than
    > chips to store the parity on writes) will not work.
    >
    > Did the system come with the EISA Config Utility on floppy? My vague
    > recollection is that some weird config-related problems required the
    > user to run the ECU to update the config info somewhere in the system.
    > Hopefully that won't be necessary here. Also note that the same
    > hardware under different OSes (eg WinNT vs VMS) would have different
    > ECU settings, so even if the system config was right for NT when it
    > left its last owner, it may by now be wrong for VMS (can that really
    > be right? It's what I recall...).
    >
    > Depending on your aims, you might want to try to get hold of a
    > slightly better PCI graphics card. I got rid of one not long ago (from
    > memory it wasn't a VMS-supported one though, there weren't that many
    > of those around).
    >
    > Welcome to the world of VMS, and good luck. Or as they say in the land
    > of SuSe, "have a lot of fun".




  6. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?



    > The only difference is the damage done to the white box firmware to
    > prevent them booting VMS or Tru64.
    > A very simple procedure remedies this defect :-)
    > One note however: DEC/HP/Compaq will never service nor support a white
    > box Alpha that runs VMS or Tru64.


    I would be inclined to do this if I could get it to insall/run OpenVMS.
    When I was in school "a long time ago" the computer science dept.
    had a vax cluster and I have used VMS before. Might be interesting.
    If you have the customization procedure to turn a white box into a
    blue box please point.

    thanks,
    charles.....



  7. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    ***** charles wrote:
    >
    >
    >> The only difference is the damage done to the white box firmware to
    >> prevent them booting VMS or Tru64.
    >> A very simple procedure remedies this defect :-)
    >> One note however: DEC/HP/Compaq will never service nor support a white
    >> box Alpha that runs VMS or Tru64.

    >
    > I would be inclined to do this if I could get it to insall/run OpenVMS.
    > When I was in school "a long time ago" the computer science dept.
    > had a vax cluster and I have used VMS before. Might be interesting.
    > If you have the customization procedure to turn a white box into a
    > blue box please point.
    >
    > thanks,
    > charles.....
    >
    >


    To run VMS on a white box DS330x do the following:

    1) Change the machine to use the SRM console.

    2) At the SRM >>> prompt, type the following:

    >>> set os_type vms
    >>> cat nvram (to see what, if anything, is in it)
    >>> edit nvram

    10 set srm_boot on
    20 set boot_reset on
    30 e
    >>> init


    4) Install VMS and have fun!

    Change the line numbers, 10 and 20 above, if your nvram file
    happens to have other commands in it already.

    The edit command above runs a simple line numbered editor.
    Type a ? in it to see a list of it's commands:

    >>> edit nvram

    ?

    Jeff


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  8. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    On 14 aug, 19:33, "***** charles" wrote:
    >
    >
    > > The only difference is the damage done to the white box firmware to
    > > prevent them booting VMS or Tru64.
    > > A very simple procedure remedies this defect :-)
    > > One note however: DEC/HP/Compaq will never service nor support a white
    > > box Alpha that runs VMS or Tru64.

    >
    > I would be inclined to do this if I could get it to insall/run OpenVMS.
    > When I was in school "a long time ago" the computer science dept.
    > had a vax cluster and I have used VMS before. Might be interesting.
    > If you have the customization procedure to turn a white box into a
    > blue box please point.
    >
    > thanks,
    > charles.....


    The procedure is outlined here: http://home.zonnet.nl/hvlems and go to
    White Box Alphas
    It is really quite simple, all you need to do is add two lines to the
    nvram memory .
    Hans

  9. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    In article , "***** charles" writes:
    >
    > 1. on the front it says DIGITAL Server 3000 and on the back
    > the model number is FR-K7F4W-AB I haven't been able to
    > determine if this is supposed to be NT only or not


    I don't recall any NT-only systems until after the 3000 series.

    >
    > 2. What do most of the people who have one of these things have on them
    > OS wise? Linux, BSD, OpenVMS, DigitalUnix or whatever?


    In my house, if it can run VMS, it does run VMS.

    > 3. How do I update to the last BIOS or however you say it in the dec world?
    > I understand there is a V5.8 out.


    There are downloadable NVRAM updates. You boot the NVRAM CD, which
    can be burned from the updates, or I think in some cases you can
    MOP boot over the network, the run the update utility. You may have
    to slide off the cover and change the read/write jumper.

    IMHO, I'd start finding all this stuff by looking at the FAQ.
    http://www.hoffmanlabs.org is a good place to look for the FAQ.


  10. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:58:03 -0700, H Vlems wrote:

    > On 14 aug, 19:33, "***** charles" wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> > The only difference is the damage done to the white box firmware to
    >> > prevent them booting VMS or Tru64.
    >> > A very simple procedure remedies this defect :-)
    >> > One note however: DEC/HP/Compaq will never service nor support a white
    >> > box Alpha that runs VMS or Tru64.

    >>
    >> I would be inclined to do this if I could get it to insall/run OpenVMS.
    >> When I was in school "a long time ago" the computer science dept.
    >> had a vax cluster and I have used VMS before. Might be interesting.
    >> If you have the customization procedure to turn a white box into a
    >> blue box please point.
    >>
    >> thanks,
    >> charles.....

    >
    > The procedure is outlined here: http://home.zonnet.nl/hvlems and go to
    > White Box Alphas
    > It is really quite simple, all you need to do is add two lines to the
    > nvram memory .
    > Hans


    Don't try this with an XL266. They actually crippled the 21064A cpu so you
    could load SRM.

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  11. OT: noVMS Alphas...

    On Aug 15, 4:48 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    > On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:58:03 -0700, H Vlems wrote:
    > > On 14 aug, 19:33, "***** charles" wrote:
    > >>

    >
    > >> > The only difference is the damage done to the white box firmware to
    > >> > prevent them booting VMS or Tru64.
    > >> > A very simple procedure remedies this defect :-)
    > >> > One note however: DEC/HP/Compaq will never service nor support a white
    > >> > box Alpha that runs VMS or Tru64.

    >
    > >> I would be inclined to do this if I could get it to insall/run OpenVMS.
    > >> When I was in school "a long time ago" the computer science dept.
    > >> had a vax cluster and I have used VMS before. Might be interesting.
    > >> If you have the customization procedure to turn a white box into a
    > >> blue box please point.

    >
    > >> thanks,
    > >> charles.....

    >
    > > The procedure is outlined here:http://home.zonnet.nl/hvlemsand go to
    > > White Box Alphas
    > > It is really quite simple, all you need to do is add two lines to the
    > > nvram memory .
    > > Hans

    >
    > Don't try this with an XL266. They actually crippled the 21064A cpu so you
    > could load SRM.
    >
    > --
    > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com


    Not entirely correct. The Celebris XL266 (or whatever they called the
    PCBU variant of the AlphaStation 400) had a "half flash", big enough
    to hold AlphaBIOS *or* SRM console, but not both at the same time. If
    you could reflash it, you could change OS and it work work (assuming
    the graphics, SCSI, etc worked under both OSes). Whether this was
    commercially allowed is a separate question. Not clear whether this
    "half flash" was anything more than just a manufacturing penny-
    pinching measure in the days when flash memory was a bit more
    expensive than it is today.

    There were crippled Alpha CPU chips, e.g. some of the 21164/EV5 chips
    licenced by Samsung, maybe 21164PC, can't remember, which reportedly
    had a VMS-specific memory management component missing (again, I can't
    remember exactly what). This meant they could run NT, or could run
    Tru64 (and SRM underneath), but could not ever run VMS. Some
    motherboards based on them were called PC164SX. I have the remains of
    a prototype of one of these somewhere, untouched for years; if anyone
    is interested it's in Birmingham England.

    21164PC product brief (1997, <50Watt):
    http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserve...re/164pcpb.pdf

  12. Re: OT: noVMS Alphas...

    johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes:

    >> Don't try this with an XL266. They actually crippled the 21064A cpu so you
    >> could load SRM.


    >Not entirely correct. The Celebris XL266 (or whatever they called the
    >PCBU variant of the AlphaStation 400) had a "half flash", big enough
    >to hold AlphaBIOS *or* SRM console, but not both at the same time. If
    >you could reflash it, you could change OS and it work work (assuming
    >the graphics, SCSI, etc worked under both OSes).


    They also did this with the Alphastation 200s, all but the early ones.
    You had to reflash to go between SRM and AlphaBIOS. I believe they
    provided sockets on the board so you could add the flash chips if you
    wanted to.

    >There were crippled Alpha CPU chips, e.g. some of the 21164/EV5 chips
    >licenced by Samsung, maybe 21164PC, can't remember, which reportedly
    >had a VMS-specific memory management component missing (again, I can't
    >remember exactly what). This meant they could run NT, or could run
    >Tru64 (and SRM underneath), but could not ever run VMS.


    Also the Alpha 21066 chip.

  13. Re: OT: noVMS Alphas...

    On Aug 15, 12:32*pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
    wrote:
    > johnwalla...@yahoo.co.uk writes:
    > >> Don't try this with an XL266. *They actually crippled the 21064A cpuso you
    > >> could load SRM.

    > >Not entirely correct. The Celebris XL266 (or whatever they called the
    > >PCBU variant of the AlphaStation 400) had a "half flash", big enough
    > >to hold AlphaBIOS *or* SRM console, but not both at the same time. If
    > >you could reflash it, you could change OS and it work work (assuming
    > >the graphics, SCSI, etc worked under both OSes).

    >
    > They also did this with the Alphastation 200s, all but the early ones.
    > You had to reflash to go between SRM and AlphaBIOS. *I believe they
    > provided sockets on the board so you could add the flash chips if you
    > wanted to.
    >
    > >There were crippled Alpha CPU chips, e.g. some of the 21164/EV5 chips
    > >licenced by Samsung, maybe 21164PC, can't remember, which reportedly
    > >had a VMS-specific memory management component missing (again, I can't
    > >remember exactly what). This meant they could run NT, or could run
    > >Tru64 (and SRM underneath), but could not ever run VMS.

    >
    > Also the Alpha 21066 chip.


    Confirmed on the AS200 half-flash. I upgraded my Onsale.com unit to
    full flash years ago just by plugging in the appropriate chips.

    I also upgraded from 166 to 233 MHz; one new crystal (hard to find!),
    one CPU snagged from a Cabriolet MLB, and a couple of switch
    settings. Sadly the switch setting docs were missing from the later
    perfect-bound AS200 manuals, but they were in the earlier loose leaf
    binders. Knocked about 15% off my Setiathome unit times.

    Now I never run NT on the poor box any more and ARC is a happily
    fading memory.

    However the OP indicated he was ending up at the ">>>" prompt, so half
    flash or not, he has SRM loaded.

    Rich

  14. Re: OT: noVMS Alphas...

    On Aug 15, 6:32 pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
    wrote:
    > johnwalla...@yahoo.co.uk writes:
    > >> Don't try this with an XL266. They actually crippled the 21064A cpu so you
    > >> could load SRM.

    > >Not entirely correct. The Celebris XL266 (or whatever they called the
    > >PCBU variant of the AlphaStation 400) had a "half flash", big enough
    > >to hold AlphaBIOS *or* SRM console, but not both at the same time. If
    > >you could reflash it, you could change OS and it work work (assuming
    > >the graphics, SCSI, etc worked under both OSes).

    >
    > They also did this with the Alphastation 200s, all but the early ones.
    > You had to reflash to go between SRM and AlphaBIOS. I believe they
    > provided sockets on the board so you could add the flash chips if you
    > wanted to.
    >
    > >There were crippled Alpha CPU chips, e.g. some of the 21164/EV5 chips
    > >licenced by Samsung, maybe 21164PC, can't remember, which reportedly
    > >had a VMS-specific memory management component missing (again, I can't
    > >remember exactly what). This meant they could run NT, or could run
    > >Tru64 (and SRM underneath), but could not ever run VMS.

    >
    > Also the Alpha 21066 chip.


    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_2406.html

    The 21066 had its challenges, but architectural inability to run VMS
    wasn't one of them. It was a 21064/EV4-class core with all the usually-
    external glue logic (today's "northbridge, southbridge") on the same
    chip, which was intended to make it trivially easy to build into PCs
    and "embedded" systems (just add DRAM and PCI peripherals). Things
    didn't work out quite right though, and the performance of a 21066 at
    166MHz was noticeably worse than a 21064 at 150MHz. The simple
    integration and low power design means the 21066 is in the Tadpole
    Alphabook, on which VMS was supported, and in the Alpha Multia, where
    you have to refer to the FAQ to find out how to get it to run VMS.
    Slowly.

    HP still have a subset of chip info, covering some EV4 stuff (21064,
    21066) and some EV5 stuff (including 21164PC and PC164SX docs) at
    http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserve...chip-docs.html

    I've got an Alpha Multia gathering dust in addition to the previously
    mentioned PC164SX. Due to circumstances which won't become clear again
    for some time, the case has an Intel Inside sticker, and Multia Intel
    part numbering, but the innards are Alpha. All offers gratefully
    received.

  15. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    "Jeff Campbell" wrote in message
    news:1218757777_24@isp.n...
    > ***** charles wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> The only difference is the damage done to the white box firmware to
    >>> prevent them booting VMS or Tru64.
    >>> A very simple procedure remedies this defect :-)
    >>> One note however: DEC/HP/Compaq will never service nor support a white
    >>> box Alpha that runs VMS or Tru64.

    >>
    >> I would be inclined to do this if I could get it to insall/run OpenVMS.
    >> When I was in school "a long time ago" the computer science dept.
    >> had a vax cluster and I have used VMS before. Might be interesting.
    >> If you have the customization procedure to turn a white box into a
    >> blue box please point.
    >>
    >> thanks,
    >> charles.....
    >>
    >>

    >
    > To run VMS on a white box DS330x do the following:
    >
    > 1) Change the machine to use the SRM console.
    >
    > 2) At the SRM >>> prompt, type the following:
    >
    > >>> set os_type vms
    > >>> cat nvram (to see what, if anything, is in it)
    > >>> edit nvram

    > 10 set srm_boot on
    > 20 set boot_reset on
    > 30 e
    > >>> init

    >
    > 4) Install VMS and have fun!
    >
    > Change the line numbers, 10 and 20 above, if your nvram file
    > happens to have other commands in it already.
    >
    > The edit command above runs a simple line numbered editor.
    > Type a ? in it to see a list of it's commands:
    >
    > >>> edit nvram

    > ?
    >
    > Jeff


    I found the instructions above on the Internet and have already
    done them. Now I would like to get the latest vms version but
    believe that I have to join some group in order to qualify which
    I don't want to do. I did find an 800 type number for ordering
    the media kit but the number doesn't let me do what I want. At
    least the media kit was supposed to only be $25. Do you happen
    to know he minimum ram requirement? I only have 128M at
    present.

    thanks....



  16. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    ***** charles wrote:
    > "Jeff Campbell" wrote in message
    > news:1218757777_24@isp.n...
    >> ***** charles wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> The only difference is the damage done to the white box firmware to
    >>>> prevent them booting VMS or Tru64.
    >>>> A very simple procedure remedies this defect :-)
    >>>> One note however: DEC/HP/Compaq will never service nor support a white
    >>>> box Alpha that runs VMS or Tru64.
    >>> I would be inclined to do this if I could get it to insall/run OpenVMS.
    >>> When I was in school "a long time ago" the computer science dept.
    >>> had a vax cluster and I have used VMS before. Might be interesting.
    >>> If you have the customization procedure to turn a white box into a
    >>> blue box please point.
    >>>
    >>> thanks,
    >>> charles.....
    >>>
    >>>

    >> To run VMS on a white box DS330x do the following:
    >>
    >> 1) Change the machine to use the SRM console.
    >>
    >> 2) At the SRM >>> prompt, type the following:
    >>
    >> >>> set os_type vms
    >> >>> cat nvram (to see what, if anything, is in it)
    >> >>> edit nvram

    >> 10 set srm_boot on
    >> 20 set boot_reset on
    >> 30 e
    >> >>> init

    >>
    >> 4) Install VMS and have fun!
    >>
    >> Change the line numbers, 10 and 20 above, if your nvram file
    >> happens to have other commands in it already.
    >>
    >> The edit command above runs a simple line numbered editor.
    >> Type a ? in it to see a list of it's commands:
    >>
    >> >>> edit nvram

    >> ?
    >>
    >> Jeff

    >
    > I found the instructions above on the Internet and have already
    > done them. Now I would like to get the latest vms version but
    > believe that I have to join some group in order to qualify which
    > I don't want to do. I did find an 800 type number for ordering
    > the media kit but the number doesn't let me do what I want. At
    > least the media kit was supposed to only be $25. Do you happen
    > to know he minimum ram requirement? I only have 128M at
    > present.
    >
    > thanks....
    >
    >

    128 MB should be enough. It's more than enough for VAX (the minimum
    used to be something like 8 MB many years ago). 64MB is the practical
    minimum for an Alpha. Don't know what the minimum is for Itanic except
    that the Itanic wants more. More RAM is better. I have 192MB on my
    Alphastation 200 4/233.

  17. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    On Aug 13, 2:28*pm, "***** charles" wrote:
    > "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in messagenews:08081308321926_20200492@antinode.info. ..
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > From: "***** charles"

    >
    > >> Hi, this seems to be the right group. *I came across a DEC Server 3000

    >
    > > * What does it _actually_ say on the front? *Sounds like one of the
    > > "white-box" systems intended for Windows NT (only).

    >
    > >> FR-K7F4W-AB with a 500MHz alpha chip and one stick of 128M of ram and I
    > >> don't know how big the hard drive is yet. *I have fired it up, white
    > >> letters
    > >> on a blue background and the final prompt is >>>. *I know a bit about a
    > >> lot
    > >> of architectures but this is my first alpha so I am stumped. *The guy
    > >> that I
    > >> got it from said it would run VMS but I don't know how to get it that far
    > >> if
    > >> that is true. *Any other ideas?

    >
    > > * * *http://h71000.www7.hp.com/index.html
    > > * * *http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/
    > > * * *http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/
    > > * * *[...]

    >
    > > * >>>help
    > > * >>>boot

    >
    > > * * *http://hoffmanlabs.org/vmsfaq/

    >
    > >> * I understand that this machine will go to
    > >> 1G of ram (2 sitcks of 512M each). *Anyone know where I could get some of
    > >> this cheap?

    >
    > > * Ebay?

    >
    > Well, after lots of surfing I was able to determine the following:
    >
    > 1. on the front it says DIGITAL Server 3000 and on the back
    > * * the model number is FR-K7F4W-AB *I haven't been able to
    > * * determine if this is supposed to be NT only or not. *I am
    > * * downloading a Debian Linux install networking cd. *I did try
    > * * the boot command to the scsi controller and it booted to
    > * * *NetBSD which will be replaced as soon as I can burn the
    > * * *Debian cd. *From further research I am thinking that this
    > * * *box might be a 3305 but it does not say that anywhere. *It
    > * * *does have a 500MHz alpha chip in it 21164A-2. *The
    > * * *prompt >>> should indicate that the box is not the NT only
    > * * *box I have been reading about.
    > * * *show version gives:
    > * * * V5.4-U3 * March 24 1999 *12:39:17
    > * * * show pal gives:
    > * * * *VMS *PALcode *V1.20-3
    > * * * * OSF *PALcode *V1.22-5
    > * * * *show config gives:
    > * * * * slot5 QLogic ISP1020 pka0.7.0.5.0 *scsi bus id 7
    > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * dka100.1.0.5.0 Quantum XP34550J
    > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * dka400.4.0.5.0 RRD46 scsi cd-rom
    > * * * * *slot6 S3 Trio 64/Trio32
    > * * * * *slot7 Intel 82375 * * * * *Bridge to Bus1, EISA
    > * * * * *slot11 DE500-BA Network Con *ewa0.0.0.11.0 *00-00-F8-08-F4-F3
    >
    > 2. What do most of the people who have one of these things have on them
    > * * *OS wise? *Linux, BSD, OpenVMS, DigitalUnix or whatever?
    >
    > 3. How do I update to the last BIOS or however you say it in the dec world?
    > * * *I understand there is a V5.8 out.
    >
    > 4. What is the biggest scsi drive I can stick in this thing and just haveit
    > work?
    > * * *How many of them can I string togetther inside the box?
    >
    > 5. When looking at stuff and the Internet it is difficulet to tell if what I
    > am
    > * * *reading is relevant or not, confused on exactly what the box is.
    >
    > 6. I have been thinking of just setting up a server for "stuff" on my
    > * * local net but I am also thinking that the electricity to run thisthing
    > * * might be a little high vs. a cheap low power x86 clone server.
    >
    > Hope the above helps you help me.
    >
    > thanks,
    > charles.....- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Try these:

    >>> sho dev
    >>> sho config
    >>> show bootdef_dev


    Let me know what you find. Thanks.

  18. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?



    > 128 MB should be enough. It's more than enough for VAX (the minimum used
    > to be something like 8 MB many years ago). 64MB is the practical minimum
    > for an Alpha. Don't know what the minimum is for Itanic except that the
    > Itanic wants more. More RAM is better. I have 192MB on my Alphastation
    > 200 4/233.


    good to know. someone is supposed to be sending me some more ram
    but the process is going slowly.

    thanks,
    charles.....



  19. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?



    Try these:

    >>> sho dev


    a Quantum 4.5G hard drive
    a Toshiba cdrom 12x scsi
    scsi controller

    >>> sho config


    to much to list/remember it does have a 500MHz alpha cpu
    no easy way to capture/transfer files to my Internet machine

    >>> show bootdef_dev


    ewa0.0.0.11.0

    Let me know what you find. Thanks.

    sorry it took so long. more ram hasn't arrived
    interest starting to wain.
    I have hacked it so I can add different oses though.


    charles.....




  20. Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000?

    On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:06:17 -0700, ***** charles wrote:

    >
    >
    > Try these:
    >
    >>>> sho dev

    >
    > a Quantum 4.5G hard drive
    > a Toshiba cdrom 12x scsi
    > scsi controller
    >
    >>>> sho config

    >
    > to much to list/remember it does have a 500MHz alpha cpu
    > no easy way to capture/transfer files to my Internet machine

    connect a cable from COM1 port to, e.g. a pc and run hyperterm
    then you can cut and past the info
    >
    >>>> show bootdef_dev

    >
    > ewa0.0.0.11.0

    This means it is booting of the ethernet port
    >
    > Let me know what you find. Thanks.
    >
    > sorry it took so long. more ram hasn't arrived
    > interest starting to wain.
    > I have hacked it so I can add different oses though.
    >
    >
    > charles.....
    >
    >
    >




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

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