OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08 - VMS

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Thread: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

  1. OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

    Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.

    The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.

    I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    the UK public are making a brew!

    OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.

    Can anyone provide more details?

    Regards,

    Mark.

  2. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britainfrom Above, 10/08/08

    johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

    > Also in days gone by, the biggest demand surge in the year used to be
    > at 3oclock on Christmas Day, when the Queen's Christmas broadcast came
    > on.


    Interesting. When I visited the Snowy River hydro project in Australia,
    I was told the peak demand there was in the morning during summer when
    people get up, start brewing coffee AND air conditioners start to work
    because of the sun having risen and starting to heat homes.

    Here in Québec, the peak is during very cold winter days at about 18:00
    when people get home turn on lights, raise their thermostats and start
    cooking meals.

    I suspect there are variations throughout the world on when peak demand
    exists.

  3. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

    On Aug 11, 1:49*pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    > johnwalla...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
    > > Also in days gone by, the biggest demand surge in the year used to be
    > > at 3oclock on Christmas Day, when the Queen's Christmas broadcast came
    > > on.

    >
    > Interesting. When I visited the Snowy River hydro project in Australia,
    > I was told the peak demand there was in the morning during summer when
    > people get up, start brewing coffee AND air conditioners start to work
    > because of the sun having risen and starting to heat homes.
    >
    > Here in Québec, the peak is during very cold winter days at about 18:00
    > when people get home turn on lights, raise their thermostats and start
    > cooking meals.
    >
    > I suspect there are variations throughout the world on when peak demand
    > exists.

    JF - you should have called in to see our vms machines
    Phil

  4. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

    On Aug 11, 8:04*am, urbancamo wrote:
    > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.
    >
    > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.
    >
    > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    > the UK public are making a brew!
    >
    > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.
    >
    > Can anyone provide more details?
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Mark.


    (in .au) frequency is handled by scada systems managing generator
    output
    with control pulses sent every 0.5 sec
    If you really want to know more have a look at
    http://www.nemmco.com.au/powersystem...temops.html#as

    I think one of the biggest historical peaks was during the 1966 world
    cup final
    when it went to extra time the whole country made a cup of tea.
    Phil

    Phil

  5. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain from Above, 10/08/08

    In article
    <5e9f2c5a-09e8-4c03-9803-72462cfaab8e@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com>,
    dooleys@snowy.net.au wrote:

    > On Aug 11, 8:04*am, urbancamo wrote:
    > > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    > > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    > > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.
    > >
    > > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    > > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    > > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    > > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    > > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    > > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    > > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    > > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    > > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.
    > >
    > > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    > > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    > > the UK public are making a brew!
    > >
    > > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    > > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.
    > >
    > > Can anyone provide more details?
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > >
    > > Mark.

    >
    > (in .au) frequency is handled by scada systems managing generator
    > output with control pulses sent every 0.5 sec
    > If you really want to know more have a look at
    > http://www.nemmco.com.au/powersystem...temops.html#as
    >
    > I think one of the biggest historical peaks was during the 1966 world
    > cup final when it went to extra time the whole country made a cup of
    > tea.


    I also recall a water board spokesman giving statistics about the 1966
    world cup final. Not so much the filling of kettles, but the
    simultaneous flushing of toilets at 2 gallons a time causing reservoir
    levels to dip, and sewage plants to receive a surge.

    To stay on topic, does anyone know if Yorkshire Water are still a heavy
    VMS user? DEC Leeds used to mention them frequently in the VAX to Alpha
    migration timeframe.

    --
    Paul Sture

  6. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

    This might not be too well known or in the media but over 50% of
    mobile text messages sent in the world are on OpenVMS systems.

    --Peter.
    On Aug 11, 12:04 am, urbancamo wrote:
    > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.
    >
    > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.
    >
    > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    > the UK public are making a brew!
    >
    > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.
    >
    > Can anyone provide more details?
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Mark.



  7. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

    On Aug 12, 4:20 am, maxoutr...@gmail.com wrote:
    > This might not be too well known or in the media but over 50% of
    > mobile text messages sent in the world are on OpenVMS systems.
    >
    > --Peter.
    > On Aug 11, 12:04 am, urbancamo wrote:
    >
    > > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    > > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    > > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.

    >
    > > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    > > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    > > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    > > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    > > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    > > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    > > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    > > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    > > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.

    >
    > > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    > > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    > > the UK public are making a brew!

    >
    > > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    > > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.

    >
    > > Can anyone provide more details?

    >
    > > Regards,

    >
    > > Mark.


    Hi,

    I'm not challenging your claim, but it would be great if you could
    provide a reference for this.

    Thanks!

    AEF

  8. RE: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain from Above, 10/08/08 Above, 10/08/08 Above, 10/08/08

    -----Original Message-----
    > From: AEF [mailto:spamsink2001@yahoo.com]
    > Sent: August 12, 2008 8:14 AM
    > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > Subject: Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre,
    > Britain from Above, 10/08/08 Above, 10/08/08 Above, 10/08/08
    >
    > On Aug 12, 4:20 am, maxoutr...@gmail.com wrote:
    > > This might not be too well known or in the media but over 50% of
    > > mobile text messages sent in the world are on OpenVMS systems.
    > >
    > > --Peter.
    > > On Aug 11, 12:04 am, urbancamo wrote:
    > >
    > > > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at

    > the
    > > > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    > > > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.

    > >
    > > > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the

    > UK's
    > > > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    > > > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    > > > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    > > > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power

    > plants
    > > > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary

    > extra
    > > > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    > > > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped

    > to
    > > > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.

    > >
    > > > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are

    > opened
    > > > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    > > > the UK public are making a brew!

    > >
    > > > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed

    > that
    > > > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.

    > >
    > > > Can anyone provide more details?

    > >
    > > > Regards,

    > >
    > > > Mark.

    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm not challenging your claim, but it would be great if you could
    > provide a reference for this.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > AEF


    PDF Testimonial:
    http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downlo...A1-7999ENW.pdf
    ""We built our SMS service on top of HP BladeSystem and the HP
    OpenVMS operating system because of the high availability and
    clustering capabilities of the solution. We've been able to scale
    our system to become an industry leader while providing continuous
    service to our customers."

    -Steven van Zeanen, Vice President of Marketing, Acision

    Video Testimonial:
    http://tinyurl.com/6ybkgg - translates tobeware wraps)
    http://hp.feedroom.com/?fr_story=f15...98621394&rf=bm


    Regards

    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-254-8911
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.


    Regards




  9. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain from Above, 10/08/08

    On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:13:54 -0700, AEF wrote:

    > On Aug 12, 4:20 am, maxoutr...@gmail.com wrote:
    >> This might not be too well known or in the media but over 50% of
    >> mobile text messages sent in the world are on OpenVMS systems.
    >>
    >> --Peter.
    >> On Aug 11, 12:04 am, urbancamo wrote:
    >>
    >> > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    >> > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    >> > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.

    >>
    >> > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    >> > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    >> > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    >> > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    >> > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    >> > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    >> > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    >> > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    >> > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.

    >>
    >> > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    >> > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    >> > the UK public are making a brew!

    >>
    >> > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    >> > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.

    >>
    >> > Can anyone provide more details?

    >>
    >> > Regards,

    >>
    >> > Mark.

    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm not challenging your claim, but it would be great if you could
    > provide a reference for this.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > AEF


    I use Verizon as my outgoing SMTP and I have been having troubles with it
    for
    about a month. It becomes unavailable and then it also has troubles with
    authentication. I would imagine these are also used for texting. I wonder
    what they are using?

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  10. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

    On Aug 12, 2:08 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:13:54 -0700, AEF wrote:
    > > On Aug 12, 4:20 am, maxoutr...@gmail.com wrote:
    > >> This might not be too well known or in the media but over 50% of
    > >> mobile text messages sent in the world are on OpenVMS systems.

    >
    > >> --Peter.
    > >> On Aug 11, 12:04 am, urbancamo wrote:

    >
    > >> > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    > >> > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    > >> > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.

    >
    > >> > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    > >> > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    > >> > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    > >> > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    > >> > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    > >> > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    > >> > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    > >> > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    > >> > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.

    >
    > >> > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    > >> > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    > >> > the UK public are making a brew!

    >
    > >> > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    > >> > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.

    >
    > >> > Can anyone provide more details?

    >
    > >> > Regards,

    >
    > >> > Mark.

    >
    > > Hi,

    >
    > > I'm not challenging your claim, but it would be great if you could
    > > provide a reference for this.

    >
    > > Thanks!

    >
    > > AEF

    >
    > I use Verizon as my outgoing SMTP and I have been having troubles with it
    > for
    > about a month. It becomes unavailable and then it also has troubles with
    > authentication. I would imagine these are also used for texting. I wonder
    > what they are using?
    >
    > --
    > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com


    The systems a cellphone operator would use for SMS (text messages) are
    entirely unrelated (in software terms) to what they would use for
    SMTP. Aiui, VMS's role in the SMS picture dates back to the days when
    Logica picked VMS as the underlying platform for their SMS service
    centre package. In those days, Logica (and thus VMS) would have had
    not far off 100% ownership of that market. Times change though, and
    Logica have changed hands and the new owners have sold off that part
    of the business (including the Telepath product), because it has
    become commoditised (presumably commodity = Windows/Linux).

    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communicatio...9286015,00.htm

  11. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08 Above, 10/08/08 Above, 10/08/08

    On Aug 12, 2:03 pm, "Main, Kerry" wrote:
    > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: AEF [mailto:spamsink2...@yahoo.com]
    > > Sent: August 12, 2008 8:14 AM
    > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > > Subject: Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre,
    > > Britain from Above, 10/08/08 Above, 10/08/08 Above, 10/08/08

    >
    > > On Aug 12, 4:20 am, maxoutr...@gmail.com wrote:
    > > > This might not be too well known or in the media but over 50% of
    > > > mobile text messages sent in the world are on OpenVMS systems.

    >
    > > > --Peter.
    > > > On Aug 11, 12:04 am, urbancamo wrote:

    >
    > > > > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at

    > > the
    > > > > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    > > > > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.

    >
    > > > > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the

    > > UK's
    > > > > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    > > > > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    > > > > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    > > > > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power

    > > plants
    > > > > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary

    > > extra
    > > > > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    > > > > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped

    > > to
    > > > > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.

    >
    > > > > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are

    > > opened
    > > > > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    > > > > the UK public are making a brew!

    >
    > > > > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed

    > > that
    > > > > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.

    >
    > > > > Can anyone provide more details?

    >
    > > > > Regards,

    >
    > > > > Mark.

    >
    > > Hi,

    >
    > > I'm not challenging your claim, but it would be great if you could
    > > provide a reference for this.

    >
    > > Thanks!

    >
    > > AEF

    >
    > PDF Testimonial:http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downlo...A1-7999ENW.pdf
    > ""We built our SMS service on top of HP BladeSystem and the HP
    > OpenVMS operating system because of the high availability and
    > clustering capabilities of the solution. We've been able to scale
    > our system to become an industry leader while providing continuous
    > service to our customers."
    >
    > -Steven van Zeanen, Vice President of Marketing, Acision
    >
    > Video Testimonial:http://tinyurl.com/6ybkgg- translates tobeware wraps)http://hp.feedroom.com/?fr_story=f15...edddd200829862...
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Kerry Main
    > Senior Consultant
    > HP Services Canada
    > Voice: 613-254-8911
    > Fax: 613-591-4477
    > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    > (remove the DOT's and AT)
    >
    > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
    >
    > Regards


    Acision is the new name for the former Logica Telecoms organisation,
    which is something I should have mentioned in my post a few minutes
    ago when I mentioned Logica.

  12. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britainfrom Above, 10/08/08

    Tom Linden wrote:
    > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:13:54 -0700, AEF wrote:
    >
    >> On Aug 12, 4:20 am, maxoutr...@gmail.com wrote:
    >>> This might not be too well known or in the media but over 50% of
    >>> mobile text messages sent in the world are on OpenVMS systems.
    >>>
    >>> --Peter.
    >>> On Aug 11, 12:04 am, urbancamo wrote:
    >>>
    >>> > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    >>> > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    >>> > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.
    >>>
    >>> > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    >>> > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    >>> > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    >>> > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    >>> > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    >>> > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    >>> > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    >>> > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    >>> > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.
    >>>
    >>> > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    >>> > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    >>> > the UK public are making a brew!
    >>>
    >>> > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    >>> > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.
    >>>
    >>> > Can anyone provide more details?
    >>>
    >>> > Regards,
    >>>
    >>> > Mark.

    >>
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I'm not challenging your claim, but it would be great if you could
    >> provide a reference for this.
    >>
    >> Thanks!
    >>
    >> AEF

    >
    > I use Verizon as my outgoing SMTP and I have been having troubles with
    > it for
    > about a month. It becomes unavailable and then it also has troubles with
    > authentication. I would imagine these are also used for texting. I wonder
    > what they are using?
    >


    Probably the same thing Comcast is using! I have periodically had
    problems with Comcast being unable to authenticate. . . .

  13. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain from Above, 10/08/08

    Where to start?

    I worked for a regional electricity company in the 90's. Everything
    technical was based on VMS, all the inter-company and national grid
    billing, all of the planning and strategy of supply & demand, and of
    course the control of the ENTIRE grid network was managed by.......
    PDP11's. And old ones at that. The year 2K planning was interesting,
    when I said "are these Y2K compliant" there was just silence. When I
    pushed it was a case of "well, the programs were written 20-30 years
    ago, nothing was documented and we suspect all the programmers have
    died of old age, certainly we know of none of them. All we know is
    that it all works, even though we don't know how. If your can boil
    your kettle on New Years Day, you'll know everything was Y2K
    compliant!" It was a classic case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix
    it"

    As for today, I suspect VMS is still embedded in the electricity
    companies, for the very same reason it was chosen. In 5 years (except
    for when an over zealous system admin typed DEL *.* whilst in
    SYS$SYSTEM and ensured that 2,000 users had an extra half-day
    holiday), we never had a single day of unplanned downtime of any
    application.

    Regarding the SMS systems, I also worked for a mobile company, and VMS
    is indeed embedded in those organisations too. As with most
    companies, there is an edict that VMS is "non strategic" and that it
    needs to be replaced, but when you get down to it, nothing else can
    touch the reliability and scalability of VMS

    IMHO, if Ken Olson had the vision to release prior versions of VMS as
    open source, we would see VMS everywhere that we now see Unix and
    Linux.

  14. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britainfrom Above, 10/08/08

    Ashley Shepherd wrote:
    > Where to start?
    >
    > I worked for a regional electricity company in the 90's. Everything
    > technical was based on VMS, all the inter-company and national grid
    > billing, all of the planning and strategy of supply & demand, and of
    > course the control of the ENTIRE grid network was managed by.......
    > PDP11's. And old ones at that. The year 2K planning was interesting,
    > when I said "are these Y2K compliant" there was just silence. When I
    > pushed it was a case of "well, the programs were written 20-30 years
    > ago, nothing was documented and we suspect all the programmers have
    > died of old age, certainly we know of none of them. All we know is
    > that it all works, even though we don't know how. If your can boil
    > your kettle on New Years Day, you'll know everything was Y2K
    > compliant!" It was a classic case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix
    > it"
    >
    > As for today, I suspect VMS is still embedded in the electricity
    > companies, for the very same reason it was chosen. In 5 years (except
    > for when an over zealous system admin typed DEL *.* whilst in
    > SYS$SYSTEM and ensured that 2,000 users had an extra half-day
    > holiday), we never had a single day of unplanned downtime of any
    > application.
    >
    > Regarding the SMS systems, I also worked for a mobile company, and VMS
    > is indeed embedded in those organisations too. As with most
    > companies, there is an edict that VMS is "non strategic" and that it
    > needs to be replaced, but when you get down to it, nothing else can
    > touch the reliability and scalability of VMS
    >
    > IMHO, if Ken Olson had the vision to release prior versions of VMS as
    > open source, we would see VMS everywhere that we now see Unix and
    > Linux.


    Wouldn't the reliability, usability, etc. be about the same as
    Unix/Linux, or worse? IOW, thank God that Ken Olson did NOT release the
    source "as open source".


  15. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

    On Aug 12, 6:29 pm, Ashley Shepherd
    wrote:
    > Where to start?
    >
    > I worked for a regional electricity company in the 90's. Everything
    > technical was based on VMS, all the inter-company and national grid
    > billing, all of the planning and strategy of supply & demand, and of
    > course the control of the ENTIRE grid network was managed by.......
    > PDP11's. And old ones at that. The year 2K planning was interesting,
    > when I said "are these Y2K compliant" there was just silence. When I
    > pushed it was a case of "well, the programs were written 20-30 years
    > ago, nothing was documented and we suspect all the programmers have
    > died of old age, certainly we know of none of them. All we know is
    > that it all works, even though we don't know how. If your can boil
    > your kettle on New Years Day, you'll know everything was Y2K
    > compliant!" It was a classic case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix
    > it"
    >
    > As for today, I suspect VMS is still embedded in the electricity
    > companies, for the very same reason it was chosen. In 5 years (except
    > for when an over zealous system admin typed DEL *.* whilst in
    > SYS$SYSTEM and ensured that 2,000 users had an extra half-day
    > holiday), we never had a single day of unplanned downtime of any
    > application.
    >
    > Regarding the SMS systems, I also worked for a mobile company, and VMS
    > is indeed embedded in those organisations too. As with most
    > companies, there is an edict that VMS is "non strategic" and that it
    > needs to be replaced, but when you get down to it, nothing else can
    > touch the reliability and scalability of VMS
    >
    > IMHO, if Ken Olson had the vision to release prior versions of VMS as
    > open source, we would see VMS everywhere that we now see Unix and
    > Linux.


    Re PDP11 and Y2K: I'm surprised the lawyers didn't force the PDP11s
    out. It happened at at least one well known company I was working with
    whose tried tested and proven but X.25-dependent solution, deployed in
    multiple countries around the world, had to be ditched because DEC
    wouldn't give them a Y2K chitty for the relevant (but long obsolete) X.
    25 kit. So the DEC X.25-based kit (and its associated appplication
    software) was thrown out at a couple of weeks notice at the lawyers
    behest, to be replaced with a setup based on Cisco kit, a setup which
    had to be thrown together at short notice when the lawyers got
    involved, a setup which had approximately zero testing before it was
    deployed. Etc.

    Wrt open source or not: anyone with sufficient interest, motivation,
    and funds could traditionally get the VMS source listings, and pore
    over them. Does that still apply? Stuff like DECnet specs were (iirc)
    freely available. There were exceptions, like the LAT protocol, and
    the BI bus spec, but lots of stuff was very public. I'm not convinced
    that "open source" per se would actually have added much. But it would
    have been good for *perception* of VMS, and that would have had value
    of itself. What would we call it though? Open OpenVMS? Can't call it
    FreeVMS, that's taken. A sensible global hobbyist program could still
    make VMS truly affordable (currently that doesn't apply in, for
    example, the UK, where membership of HPUG to get the hobbyist licence
    is £50+ ($100+?) per year... may not seem much, but times are hard).

    Open sourcing chunks of Tru64 might have been an interesting option...
    this week at work so far I have mostly been building a pre-emptible
    Linux kernel with a 1ms tick, 'cos unlike later Tru64s, many/most
    Linuxes still don't ship as such by default (and I have been finding
    that the "real time Linux" vendors like MontaVista and SuSe make it
    very difficult to get at their GPL-based sources without signing up
    for an expensive subscription, hmm does *that* comply with the GPL?).
    Although the work involved isn't difficult it's not minimal (or quick)
    either. And the week before last I was mostly trying to make sense of
    the gazillion incompatible and often illogical ways the non-VMS world
    has for (mis)representing times and dates (vs quadword time and a
    handful of associated feasily-understood functions). But PCs are cheap
    and productive and cost-effective, and VMS isn't. It must be so, Mr
    Gates and his mates at Intel told us it was true.

  16. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain from Above, 10/08/08

    On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:29:54 -0700, Ashley Shepherd
    wrote:

    > IMHO, if Ken Olson had the vision to release prior versions of VMS as
    > open source, we would see VMS everywhere that we now see Unix and
    > Linux.


    I bought a 750 in early 1982, but replaced vms with BSD 4.1 as it was used
    for inhouse compiler development. I wrote a letter to KO that spring that
    he license VMS sources (we were building a VAX like computer based on the
    National chip) suggesting that the 10% or so of VAXes running Unix would
    soon
    be much bigger. Got a response about 2 or so months later declining.
    Heard
    later that the only supportede of the concept was Andy Knowles, who
    subsequently left sometime thereafter. I am sure there were plenty of
    other
    people sayoing same thing, so it isn't as if there weren't plenty of
    signals.

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  17. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain from Above, 10/08/08

    On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:06:20 -0700, wrote:

    > this week at work so far I have mostly been building a pre-emptible
    > Linux kernel with a 1ms tick, 'cos unlike later Tru64s, many/most
    > Linuxes still don't ship as such by default (and I have been finding
    > that the "real time Linux" vendors like MontaVista and SuSe make it


    You may wish to have a look ay
    http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/L4/

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  18. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

    On Aug 12, 2:13 pm, AEF wrote:
    > On Aug 12, 4:20 am, maxoutr...@gmail.com wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > This might not be too well known or in the media but over 50% of
    > > mobile text messages sent in the world are on OpenVMS systems.

    >
    > > --Peter.
    > > On Aug 11, 12:04 am, urbancamo wrote:

    >
    > > > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    > > > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    > > > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.

    >
    > > > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    > > > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    > > > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    > > > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    > > > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    > > > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    > > > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    > > > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    > > > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.

    >
    > > > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    > > > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    > > > the UK public are making a brew!

    >
    > > > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    > > > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.

    >
    > > > Can anyone provide more details?

    >
    > > > Regards,

    >
    > > > Mark.

    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm not challenging your claim, but it would be great if you could
    > provide a reference for this.
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > AEF


    I work for Acision so I know first hand how many customers we have.

    The original company was called CMG and created the first SMSC and
    sent the first text message back
    in the early 90's using VAX and VMS.

    CMG merged with Logica who were our main competition and became
    LogicaCMG. Logica had a competing product that was based on Unix.
    After the merger it was decided to proceed with the CMG / OpenVMS
    based product as the performance and stability were better but the
    Logica product was still maintained and sold to customers who still
    wanted it. LogicaCMG then spun off the telecoms division to become
    Acision last year.

    If you look on the Acision product page, the SMSC IP product is based
    on OpenVMS. It says IP now because it is possible to communicate with
    telecoms equipment IE STP, MSC and HLR's using IP as well as
    traditional means.

    In the US AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile are the biggest carriers using our
    SMSC. The largest systems are 14 node OpenVMS clusters that can
    sustain 14K messages per second delivered to a handset. Now at
    10-15cents/message you work out how much they make!!

    --Peter.



  19. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain fromAbove, 10/08/08

    On Aug 12, 9:32 pm, maxoutr...@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Aug 12, 2:13 pm, AEF wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Aug 12, 4:20 am, maxoutr...@gmail.com wrote:

    >
    > > > This might not be too well known or in the media but over 50% of
    > > > mobile text messages sent in the world are on OpenVMS systems.

    >
    > > > --Peter.
    > > > On Aug 11, 12:04 am, urbancamo wrote:

    >
    > > > > Spotted an LK201 and an LK401 at the console of the controller at the
    > > > > National Grid Control Centre in the programme 'Britain From Above'
    > > > > broadcast on BBC1 in the UK on 10/08/08.

    >
    > > > > The National Grid Control Centre is responsible for providing the UK's
    > > > > electricity supply. The programme focussed on the unique problem in
    > > > > the UK of supplying the peak demands of power required after
    > > > > mainstream TV programmes such as East Enders. The controller had
    > > > > direct influence at an instant over several hydroelectric power plants
    > > > > dotted round the UK that are solely used for providing temporary extra
    > > > > power to satisfy peak demand. The controller monitored a display
    > > > > showing the mains frequency which required action when it dropped to
    > > > > 49.8 Hz - the normal in the UK being 50 Hz.

    >
    > > > > I found it absolutely fascinating that hydroelectric dams are opened
    > > > > temporarily because East Enders has finished and a large portion of
    > > > > the UK public are making a brew!

    >
    > > > > OpenVMS was not mentioned in the programme but it can be assumed that
    > > > > it is used in some major capacity at the control centre.

    >
    > > > > Can anyone provide more details?

    >
    > > > > Regards,

    >
    > > > > Mark.

    >
    > > Hi,

    >
    > > I'm not challenging your claim, but it would be great if you could
    > > provide a reference for this.

    >
    > > Thanks!

    >
    > > AEF

    >
    > I work for Acision so I know first hand how many customers we have.
    >
    > The original company was called CMG and created the first SMSC and
    > sent the first text message back
    > in the early 90's using VAX and VMS.
    >
    > CMG merged with Logica who were our main competition and became
    > LogicaCMG. Logica had a competing product that was based on Unix.
    > After the merger it was decided to proceed with the CMG / OpenVMS
    > based product as the performance and stability were better but the
    > Logica product was still maintained and sold to customers who still
    > wanted it. LogicaCMG then spun off the telecoms division to become
    > Acision last year.
    >
    > If you look on the Acision product page, the SMSC IP product is based
    > on OpenVMS. It says IP now because it is possible to communicate with
    > telecoms equipment IE STP, MSC and HLR's using IP as well as
    > traditional means.
    >
    > In the US AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile are the biggest carriers using our
    > SMSC. The largest systems are 14 node OpenVMS clusters that can
    > sustain 14K messages per second delivered to a handset. Now at
    > 10-15cents/message you work out how much they make!!
    >
    > --Peter.


    Thanks for the clarification, I think I got my early Logica/CMG
    history wrong way wround (byteswapped?) Sorry.

    Are you also able to clarify the comment re the spinoff of Acision,
    along the lines of "this is now a commodity market" or words to that
    effect ? E.g. Is a Windows-based or Linux-based SMSC now a viable
    market sector, especially for the smaller Cellcos? (What you or I
    think makes sense matters little, it's what folks are buying that
    matters)

  20. Re: OpenVMS in the media - National Grid Control Centre, Britain from Above, 10/08/08

    On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:32:48 -0700, wrote:

    > I work for Acision so I know first hand how many customers we have.
    > The original company was called CMG and created the first SMSC and
    > sent the first text message back
    > in the early 90's using VAX and VMS.
    > CMG merged with Logica who were our main competition and became
    > LogicaCMG. Logica had a competing product that was based on Unix.
    > After the merger it was decided to proceed with the CMG / OpenVMS
    > based product as the performance and stability were better but the
    > Logica product was still maintained and sold to customers who still
    > wanted it. LogicaCMG then spun off the telecoms division to become
    > Acision last year.
    > If you look on the Acision product page, the SMSC IP product is based
    > on OpenVMS. It says IP now because it is possible to communicate with
    > telecoms equipment IE STP, MSC and HLR's using IP as well as
    > traditional means.
    > In the US AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile are the biggest carriers using our
    > SMSC. The largest systems are 14 node OpenVMS clusters that can
    > sustain 14K messages per second delivered to a handset. Now at
    > 10-15cents/message you work out how much they make!!
    > --Peter.


    What was the implementation language? Bliss?

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

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