Expiration date on Files - VMS

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  1. Expiration date on Files

    Does a file with an Expiration date get automagically deleted when that
    date-time occurs?
    If I want to restore an expired file from a backup, how can I keep this
    from happening instantaneously?

    Where is the discussion of the behavior of this field?


  2. Re: Expiration date on Files

    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:
    >
    > Does a file with an Expiration date get automagically deleted when that
    > date-time occurs?
    > If I want to restore an expired file from a backup, how can I keep this
    > from happening instantaneously?
    >
    > Where is the discussion of the behavior of this field?


    An expiration date prevents a file from being deleted prior to the
    expiration date. This can be overridden if you have VOLPRO privilege.

    I used to put expiration dates on backup tapes to ensure that they could
    not be accidentally overwritten.

  3. Re: Expiration date on Files

    On Aug 7, 1:35*pm, "Richard B. Gilbert"
    wrote:
    > norm.raph...@metso.com wrote:
    >
    > > Does a file with an Expiration date get automagically deleted when that
    > > date-time occurs?
    > > If I want to restore an expired file from a backup, how can I keep this
    > > from happening instantaneously?

    >
    > > Where is the discussion of the behavior of this field?

    >
    > An expiration date prevents a file from being deleted prior to the
    > expiration date. *This can be overridden if you have VOLPRO privilege.
    >
    > I used to put expiration dates on backup tapes to ensure that they could
    > not be accidentally overwritten.


    An expiration date on a file does not prevent that file from being
    deleted! Unless, you use the /EXPIRED qualifier to modify the DELETE
    filespec selection criteria. /BACKUP, /CREATED,/EXPIRED, and /
    MODIFIED all select the file date field to which the /BEFORE and /
    SINCE date/time selection criteria is applied. I'd like to see
    support for the last accessed date added to DCL.

    Bill

  4. Re: Expiration date on Files

    In article , norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
    > This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    > --=_alternative 006422FF8525749E_=
    > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
    >
    > Does a file with an Expiration date get automagically deleted when that
    > date-time occurs?
    > If I want to restore an expired file from a backup, how can I keep this
    > from happening instantaneously?
    >
    > Where is the discussion of the behavior of this field?


    The expiration date serves several purposes. BACKUP can be told to
    process or skip files by expiration date, unless it's operating in
    physical mode.

    The expiration date can also be set by the OS if volume retention is
    enabled and the file has been accessed. But the OS does not do
    anything about the expiration date.

    And, it can be set via "set file/expiration_date".

    A system manager could, in principle, scan all disks for files which
    expired before a given date and delete them. I've never seen that
    actually done.

    You can find these descriptions, amoung other places, in the DCL
    manual where the relavent commands describe what they use the
    /expiration_date or /expired qualifiers for. I suspect there's also
    some discussion in the "Guide to OpenVMS File Applications", "User's
    Manual", and "System Manager's Manual".


  5. Re: Expiration date on Files

    In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:
    >>
    >> Does a file with an Expiration date get automagically deleted when that
    >> date-time occurs?
    >> If I want to restore an expired file from a backup, how can I keep this
    >> from happening instantaneously?
    >>
    >> Where is the discussion of the behavior of this field?

    >
    > An expiration date prevents a file from being deleted prior to the
    > expiration date. This can be overridden if you have VOLPRO privilege.
    >


    No, it does not. At last not on disk files, it doesn't:

    $ set file a.a/expire=1-mar-2010
    $ sh time
    7-AUG-2008 17:05:47
    $ del/log a.a;
    %DELETE-I-FILDEL, USER1:[KOEHLER]a.a;1 deleted (4 blocks)


  6. Re: Expiration date on Files

    In article <17a357c3-3844-4ccf-a881-ec4831fb0519@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, BHall writes:
    >
    > An expiration date on a file does not prevent that file from being
    > deleted! Unless, you use the /EXPIRED qualifier to modify the DELETE
    > filespec selection criteria. /BACKUP, /CREATED,/EXPIRED, and /
    > MODIFIED all select the file date field to which the /BEFORE and /
    > SINCE date/time selection criteria is applied. I'd like to see
    > support for the last accessed date added to DCL.


    "last accessed" on VMS is implemented via volume retention, which
    uses the expiration date.

    What support for the expiration date is lacking from DCL?


  7. Re: Expiration date on Files

    On Aug 7, 4:07*pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article <17a357c3-3844-4ccf-a881-ec4831fb0...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups..com>, BHall writes:
    >
    >
    >
    > > An expiration date on a file does not prevent that file from being
    > > deleted! *Unless, you use the /EXPIRED qualifier to modify the DELETE
    > > filespec selection criteria. */BACKUP, /CREATED,/EXPIRED, and /
    > > MODIFIED all select the file date field to which the /BEFORE and /
    > > SINCE date/time selection criteria is applied. *I'd like to see
    > > support for the last accessed date added to DCL.

    >
    > * *"last accessed" on VMS is implemented via volume retention, which
    > * *uses the expiration date.
    >
    > * *What support for the expiration date is lacking from DCL?


    Bob,

    I'm referring to the ODS-5 access date. Enbled with a $SET VOLUME/
    VOLUME_CHARACTERISTICS=ACCESS_DATES. In the past we set the volume
    retention window to "emulate" the last access date and used the
    expiration date as an approximation of the last access time.

    Bill

  8. Re: Expiration date on Files

    On Aug 7, 2:13 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote:
    > Does a file with an Expiration date get automagically deleted when that
    > date-time occurs?
    > If I want to restore an expired file from a backup, how can I keep this
    > from happening instantaneously?
    >
    > Where is the discussion of the behavior of this field?


    Gee, hasn't anyone here heard of "delete/file=expired"?
    Or am I delusional?

    You can set a file to be expired, but an explicit delete telling it to
    delete expired files is required.

  9. Re: Expiration date on Files

    On Aug 7, 3:59*pm, "winston19842...@yahoo.com"
    wrote:
    > On Aug 7, 2:13 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote:
    >
    > > Does a file with an Expiration date get automagically deleted when that
    > > date-time occurs?
    > > If I want to restore an expired file from a backup, how can I keep this
    > > from happening instantaneously?

    >
    > > Where is the discussion of the behavior of this field?

    >
    > Gee, hasn't anyone here heard of "delete/file=expired"?
    > Or am I delusional?


    Delusional I guess...I didn't see a smiley. :-) Did you think
    to actually try the command you typed? Or at least check
    the documentation for DELETE? Ah well...

    > You can set a file to be expired, but an explicit delete telling it to
    > delete expired files is required.


    -Ken

  10. Re: Expiration date on Files

    On Aug 7, 5:04 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article , norm.raph...@metso.com writes:
    >
    > > This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    > > --=_alternative 006422FF8525749E_=
    > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

    >

    [...]
    > A system manager could, in principle, scan all disks for fileas which
    > expired before a given date and delete them. I've never seen that
    > actually done.


    It was done on the VAX (later, a VAXcluster) I used when I was a
    graduate student. The scratch disk had retention dates set to zero and
    1 or .01 seconds, which emulated a last-accessed date. Daily, or
    nightly, or whatever, a batch job would delete all expired files,
    perhaps until some target free space was reached, or started the files
    with the earliest expiration dates and iterated upwards, or something
    like that. It worked reasonably well.

    > You can find these descriptions, amoung other places, in the DCL
    > manual where the relavent commands describe what they use the
    > /expiration_date or /expired qualifiers for. I suspect there's also
    > some discussion in the "Guide to OpenVMS File Applications", "User's
    > Manual", and "System Manager's Manual".


    It might be in the Sys Mgr's manual, but I don't recall it in any of
    them.

    AEF

  11. Re: Expiration date on Files

    wrote in message news:OFFC96C976.67FD6D40-ON8525749E.0063EDE2-8525749E.00642300@metso.com....
    > Does a file with an Expiration date get automagically deleted when that
    > date-time occurs?
    > If I want to restore an expired file from a backup, how can I keep this
    > from happening instantaneously?
    >
    > Where is the discussion of the behavior of this field?


    No, VMS does not use the expiration date of a file.
    VMS keeps this information only to be used in your own way,
    by allowing to use it in the selection criteria for files.

    By default VMS does not even set the expiration date of a file automatically,
    but that can be changed with SET VOLUME /RETENTION.
    This is the only command (as far as I know) where VMS uses the
    expiration date in a way that is has a relation with the name of this field.
    If retention times are disabled, the expiration date can be used for very
    different purposes. (We have retention times enabled with small numbers,
    so that the expiration time can be used as an approximate last access date.)

    If you see that expired files automagically get deleted, than there must be
    something non-standard running on the system.

  12. Re: Expiration date on Files

    In article <0f17e39c-728e-40a8-ab8c-30c28c01aed6@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, BHall writes:
    > Bob,
    >
    > I'm referring to the ODS-5 access date. Enbled with a $SET VOLUME/
    > VOLUME_CHARACTERISTICS=3DACCESS_DATES. In the past we set the volume
    > retention window to "emulate" the last access date and used the
    > expiration date as an approximation of the last access time.
    >
    > Bill


    None of my ODS-5 volumes seem to know anything about that. Nor does
    my DCL command table. What version of VMS was it introduced in (I
    may have it at home)?


  13. Re: Expiration date on Files

    In article <072d5ac6-4c73-4fee-9243-0844425fa810@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes:
    >
    > It was done on the VAX (later, a VAXcluster) I used when I was a
    > graduate student. The scratch disk had retention dates set to zero and
    > 1 or .01 seconds, which emulated a last-accessed date.


    For a 24 hour cleanup, that setting looks painfully excessive.
    Must have been banging on the spindle much harder than needed.


  14. Re: Expiration date on Files

    On Aug 8, 7:41*am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article <0f17e39c-728e-40a8-ab8c-30c28c01a...@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, BHall writes:
    >
    > > Bob,

    >
    > > I'm referring to the ODS-5 access date. *Enbled with a $SET VOLUME/
    > > VOLUME_CHARACTERISTICS=3DACCESS_DATES. *In the past we set the volume
    > > retention window to "emulate" the last access date and used the
    > > expiration date as an approximation of the last access time.

    >
    > > Bill

    >
    > * *None of my ODS-5 volumes seem to know anything about that. *Nor does
    > * *my DCL command table. *What version of VMS was it introduced in (I
    > * *may have it at home)?


    Bob,

    I just noticed my "Google Groups" post got a little mangled. The
    syntax is /volume_characteristics=access_dates, don't know where the
    "3D" came from. I thought access_dates and hard_links were there at
    the initial ODS-5 release, v7.2??? Too many brain cells under the
    bridge ;-)

    Bill

    Bill

  15. Re: Expiration date on Files

    On Aug 8, 8:43 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article <072d5ac6-4c73-4fee-9243-0844425fa...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes:
    >
    >
    >
    > > It was done on the VAX (later, a VAXcluster) I used when I was a
    > > graduate student. The scratch disk had retention dates set to zero and
    > > 1 or .01 seconds, which emulated a last-accessed date.

    >
    > For a 24 hour cleanup, that setting looks painfully excessive.
    > Must have been banging on the spindle much harder than needed.


    Well, we were a small group: about 6-8 grad students and 6 professors.
    So, IIRC, we always had fewer than 10 users logged in at any given
    time. Most of the work was number crunching. It might also be that I
    remember incorrectly, but I don't think so. I actually brought this up
    with the quasi-system mangers (some of the physicists!) but they
    thought it didn't matter much. I tended to agree with them back then
    after thinking about it. In retrospect, I realize other things we did
    and didn't do that were much worse.

    AEF

  16. Re: Expiration date on Files

    On Aug 8, 9:54 am, BHall wrote:
    > On Aug 8, 7:41 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    >
    > Koehler) wrote:
    > > In article <0f17e39c-728e-40a8-ab8c-30c28c01a...@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, BHall writes:

    >
    > > > Bob,

    >
    > > > I'm referring to the ODS-5 access date. Enbled with a $SET VOLUME/
    > > > VOLUME_CHARACTERISTICS=3DACCESS_DATES. In the past we set the volume
    > > > retention window to "emulate" the last access date and used the
    > > > expiration date as an approximation of the last access time.

    >
    > > > Bill

    >
    > > None of my ODS-5 volumes seem to know anything about that. Nor does
    > > my DCL command table. What version of VMS was it introduced in (I
    > > may have it at home)?

    >
    > Bob,
    >
    > I just noticed my "Google Groups" post got a little mangled. The
    > syntax is /volume_characteristics=access_dates, don't know where the
    > "3D" came from. I thought access_dates and hard_links were there at
    > the initial ODS-5 release, v7.2??? Too many brain cells under the
    > bridge ;-)
    >
    > Bill
    >
    > Bill


    I think the 3D is the mistranslation you get from Mime to normal with
    equal signs. Maybe Goggle Groups hiccuped?

    AEF

  17. Re: Expiration date on Files

    BHall wrote:

    > I just noticed my "Google Groups" post got a little mangled. The
    > syntax is /volume_characteristics=access_dates, don't know where the
    > "3D" came from.


    "=3D" is the "Content-Transfer-Encoding=quoted-printable"
    representation of "=" in mails.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoted-printable

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME#Co...nsfer-Encoding

  18. Re: Expiration date on Files

    In article ,
    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:

    > And, it can be set via "set file/expiration_date".


    If you normally don't use the expiration-date field for anything else,
    this is a convenient way to "touch" the file and thus change its
    modification date.


  19. Re: Expiration date on Files

    On Aug 7, 7:28 pm, Ken.Fairfi...@gmail.com wrote:
    > On Aug 7, 3:59 pm, "winston19842...@yahoo.com"
    >
    > wrote:
    > > On Aug 7, 2:13 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote:

    >
    > > > Does a file with an Expiration date get automagically deleted when that
    > > > date-time occurs?
    > > > If I want to restore an expired file from a backup, how can I keep this
    > > > from happening instantaneously?

    >
    > > > Where is the discussion of the behavior of this field?

    >
    > > Gee, hasn't anyone here heard of "delete/file=expired"?
    > > Or am I delusional?

    >
    > Delusional I guess...I didn't see a smiley. :-) Did you think
    > to actually try the command you typed? Or at least check
    > the documentation for DELETE? Ah well...
    >


    I did try to find docs, shame that there are a lot of broken links out
    there.
    The Deathrow cluster verified that it was delete/expired - I just had
    my syntax wrong...

    I would've copy&paste, but the silly Java window, while you can
    copy&paste within it, if you paste outside of it you get whatever you
    copied from somewhere else (like it is a different clipboard).

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