OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe - VMS

This is a discussion on OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe - VMS ; On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:10:42 -0700, VAXman- wrote: > Keith, my comment was intended to be humorous. I am no fan of the > crazy zany string theories. It seems to me that they've created a > mathematical pseudo-reality ...

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Thread: OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe

  1. Re: OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe

    On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:10:42 -0700, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:

    > Keith, my comment was intended to be humorous. I am no fan of the
    > crazy zany string theories. It seems to me that they've created a
    > mathematical pseudo-reality that, when certain boundary conditions
    > are applied, distill out the current accepted physics. They have
    > yet to actually predict anything substantial to substantiate their
    > validity which any good theory would provide.
    >


    Theoretical Physics _IS_ a model of reality. I think it is time to
    dust off Kant.

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  2. Re: OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe

    On Jul 3, 11:10 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > In article <681e0038-e924-43cb-ac4f-4bc4f15f4...@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Keith Cayemberg writes:
    >
    >
    >
    > >On Jul 2, 2:13 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > >> In article <1cab9383-de95-40d6-af61-236f55d82...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups=

    > >..com>, Doug Phillips writes:

    >
    > >> >On Jul 1, 5:23 pm, ultra...@gmail.com wrote:
    > >> >> On Jul 1, 1:17 am, JF Mezei wrote:

    >
    > >> >> > This is VERY OT. But so strange I can't resist posting it.

    >
    > >> >88

    >
    > >> >(JF, I think Doctor Who a few regenerations ago explained why this
    > >> >wouldn't work.)

    >
    > >> >> Only God is eternal and controls time ... a day is as 1000 years to
    > >> >> Him ...

    >
    > >> >That's not what god told me but I'll ask him again just to be sure. He
    > >> >might have to ask his god who created his universe, though, and his
    > >> >god might have to ask his god who'll have to ask his god who'll have
    > >> >to ask.... ah, forget about it. It doesn't look like we'd ever get a
    > >> >definitive answer. (Or did you think god created himself?)

    >
    > >> >Now I suppose someone will bring up quantum mechanics -- OH NO! Bob
    > >> >Koehler already did!

    >
    > >> I think that the string theorists have this debate all tied up.

    >
    > >> --
    > >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)C=

    > >OM

    >
    > >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    >
    > >>http://tmesis.com/drat.html

    >
    > >Yes, they have "tied it up" into possibly infinite variations of 11 or
    > >26 dimensional Gordian Knot (or is that a G=F6delian Knot?) providing
    > >enough added variables to the Standard Model that they can finally
    > >represent not only one, but many Unified Field Theories. However
    > >nobody knows which one has anything to do with reality, or whether the
    > >added dimensions are real or simply a mathematical expediency
    > >explaining nothing. Unraveling the multidimensional Gordian Knot does
    > >not appear likely with the energy densities available to man-made
    > >devices. The use of visible natural high-energy phenomena in
    > >neighboring star-systems or galaxies come closer to the needed energy-
    > >levels. Despite CERN's ambitious LHC project the extended future of
    > >experimental quantum mechanical physics research will likely be
    > >increasingly dependent on astronomical observation rather than
    > >localized particle collisions.

    >
    > >String theorists are really more busy unraveling their "Gordian Knots"
    > >than theorizing "who" tied the knots in the first place.

    >
    > >Probably the ultimate solution will be something similar to Alexander
    > >the Great's solution to the Gordian Knot.

    >
    > >Use the Sword to cut through it.

    >
    > >By this I mean a completely different logical approach which
    > >identifies a much more simple Unified Field Theory. In this regard I
    > >also have a couple ideas. :-)

    >
    > >To get this discussion (about time travel and determinacy) a little
    > >more on topic, I propose reviewing the ideas presented by a former DEC
    > >engineer James P. Hogan in his book "Thrice Upon a Time", in which a
    > >DEC PDP 22/30 is used in sending messages into the past or future by
    > >manipulation of time traveling quanta. His take on the time paradox
    > >was that time is not serial and a person affecting himself in the past
    > >effectively cuts their own timeline and creates a new one. Here Hogan
    > >allows that events from "potential" futures can be experienced without
    > >the events actually taking place. For him "Free Will" and
    > >Heiseburgische Indeterminancy reign supreme.

    >
    > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrice_Upon_a_Time
    > >http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...ce-Upon-a-Time

    >
    > >I found not only the use of a DEC machine amusing, but also the clever
    > >use of a previously unused memory area of the machine to extend
    > >messages further back in time over multiple hops to prevent the roots
    > >of a world disaster occurring earlier than the machine would
    > >otherwise be able to communicate.

    >
    > >Cheers!

    >
    > >Keith Cayemberg

    >
    > Keith, my comment was intended to be humorous. I am no fan of the
    > crazy zany string theories. It seems to me that they've created a
    > mathematical pseudo-reality that, when certain boundary conditions
    > are applied, distill out the current accepted physics. They have
    > yet to actually predict anything substantial to substantiate their
    > validity which any good theory would provide.
    >



    I asked my nonlinear dynamics alternative-worlds theorist friend about
    it tomorrow and she said they'd get back to me last week when we
    return from Brazil. I believe everything she says because it never
    makes any sense so it must be right.

    Guide for the humor impaired:
    :-| :-/ :-) :-D

  3. Re: OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe

    "William Webb" wrote in
    news:8660a3a10807021602v6b4880b7o8d6793c7430fd4b3@ mail.gmail.com:

    > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:21 AM, wrote:
    >
    >> In article <4869bdfc$0$30363$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei <
    >> jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
    >> >This is VERY OT. But so strange I can't resist posting it.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >Person X,male, aged 32, travels back in time 32 years. Person X has
    >> >sex with his own mother, she gets pregnant and gives birth to ...
    >> >Person X.
    >> >


    >>
    >>

    > And the Heinlein story was the first place I ever heard of that song.
    > It was in a sci-fi anthology, the title of which eludes me, although I
    > remember that the hardcover was red.


    "All You Zombies---", and earlier "By His Bootstraps". Both have
    Wikepedia entries.


  4. Re: OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe

    On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM, William Webb
    wrote:

    >
    >
    > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Alfred Falk wrote:
    >
    >> "William Webb" wrote in
    >> news:8660a3a10807021602v6b4880b7o8d6793c7430fd4b3@ mail.gmail.com
    >> :
    >>
    >> > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:21 AM, wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> In article <4869bdfc$0$30363$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei <
    >> >> jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
    >> >> >This is VERY OT. But so strange I can't resist posting it.
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> >Person X,male, aged 32, travels back in time 32 years. Person X has
    >> >> >sex with his own mother, she gets pregnant and gives birth to ...
    >> >> >Person X.
    >> >> >

    >>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> > And the Heinlein story was the first place I ever heard of that song.
    >> > It was in a sci-fi anthology, the title of which eludes me, although I
    >> > remember that the hardcover was red.

    >>
    >> "All You Zombies---", and earlier "By His Bootstraps". Both have
    >> Wikepedia entries.
    >>
    >>

    > Book was hardcover, thick and red.
    >
    > I think the word "Omnibus" was in the title. "Omnibus of Science Fiction?"
    >
    > This sounds right, as does the age of the volume.
    >
    > [image: Omnibus of Science Fiction]
    >
    > Omnibus of Science Fictionby Editor Groff Conklin
    > (Hardcover - 1952)
    >
    >
    > WWWebb
    >



  5. Re: OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe

    In article <4869bdfc$0$30363$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei
    writes:

    > Person X,male, aged 32, travels back in time 32 years. Person X has sex
    > with his own mother, she gets pregnant and gives birth to ... Person X.
    >
    > Person X becomes his own father. And his son is himself.


    Throw in a(n advanced) sex-change operation so that the bloke can be
    BOTH parents and you have ALL YOU ZOMBIES by Robert Heinlein.


  6. Re: OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe

    "William Webb" wrote in
    news:8660a3a10807031220l3b202183oe81043c02acbc075@ mail.gmail.com:

    > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:19 PM, William Webb
    > wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Alfred Falk
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "William Webb" wrote in
    >>> news:8660a3a10807021602v6b4880b7o8d6793c7430fd4b3@ mail.gmail.com


    >>> %3A8660a3a10807021602v6b4880b7o8d6793c7430fd4b3@ma il.gmail.com>
    >>> :
    >>>
    >>> > On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:21 AM, wrote:
    >>> >
    >>> >> In article <4869bdfc$0$30363$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei
    >>> >> < jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
    >>> >> >This is VERY OT. But so strange I can't resist posting it.
    >>> >> >
    >>> >> >
    >>> >> >
    >>> >> >Person X,male, aged 32, travels back in time 32 years. Person X
    >>> >> >has sex with his own mother, she gets pregnant and gives birth
    >>> >> >to ... Person X.
    >>> >> >
    >>>
    >>> >>
    >>> >>
    >>> > And the Heinlein story was the first place I ever heard of that
    >>> > song. It was in a sci-fi anthology, the title of which eludes me,
    >>> > although I remember that the hardcover was red.
    >>>
    >>> "All You Zombies---", and earlier "By His Bootstraps". Both have
    >>> Wikepedia entries.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Book was hardcover, thick and red.
    >>
    >> I think the word "Omnibus" was in the title. "Omnibus of Science
    >> Fiction?"
    >>
    >> This sounds right, as does the age of the volume.
    >>
    >> [image: Omnibus of Science Fiction]
    >> <http://www.amazon.com/Omnibus-Science-Fiction-Editor-

    Conklin/dp/B000N
    >> Z56FQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215112639&sr=1-5> Omnibus of
    >> Science
    >> Fiction<http://www.amazon.com/Omnibus-Science-Fiction-Editor-

    Conklin/d
    >> p/B000NZ56FQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215112639&sr=1-5>by
    >> Editor Groff Conklin (Hardcover - 1952)


    Possibly. I read one or more anthologies by Conklin in the early 60's,
    but I don't recall reading AYZ there. I first read it in "The Unpleasant
    Profession of Jonathan Hoag", a Heinlein-only collection. However 1952
    is too early. The story was first published in 1959. But then... we're
    talking time travel here... so...

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    A L B E R T A Alfred Falk falk@arc.ab.ca
    R E S E A R C H Information Systems Dept (780)450-5185
    C O U N C I L 250 Karl Clark Road
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    http://www.arc.ab.ca/ T6N 1E4
    http://outside.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/

  7. Re: OT: Disturbing thoughts on creation of the universe

    In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:
    >In article <4869bdfc$0$30363$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei
    > writes:
    >
    >> Person X,male, aged 32, travels back in time 32 years. Person X has sex
    >> with his own mother, she gets pregnant and gives birth to ... Person X.
    >>
    >> Person X becomes his own father. And his son is himself.

    >
    >Throw in a(n advanced) sex-change operation so that the bloke can be
    >BOTH parents and you have ALL YOU ZOMBIES by Robert Heinlein.
    >


    The time-traveller is a hermaphrodite ie starts out with both male and female
    sexual organs

    from

    http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html

    "
    'Take it easy. When I opened you, I found a mess. I sent for the Chief of
    Surgery while I got the baby out, then we held a consultation with you on the
    table - and worked for hours to salvage what we could. You had two full sets of
    organs, both immature, but with the female set well enough developed for you to
    have a baby. They could never be any use to you again, so we took them out and
    rearranged things so that you can develop properly as a man.' He put a hand on
    me. 'Don't worry. You're young, your bones will readjust, we'll watch your
    glandular balance - and make a fine young man out of you.'
    "

    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University

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