Assistance - VMS

This is a discussion on Assistance - VMS ; Hi, I'm the program director for a non-profit in Colorado and I am looking for a PDP-11 that we could use to train and introduce students to early computing systems. I know PCs are available and used instead, but I ...

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  1. Assistance

    Hi,

    I'm the program director for a non-profit in Colorado and I am looking for a PDP-11 that we could use to train and introduce students to early computing systems. I know PCs are available and used instead, but I was hoping someone may have a surplus, give away PDP-11 or other mini-mainframe that we could pick up and cart away. I see that at one time you had a couple surplus units, and I was hopeful they may still be available.

    I'm not sure such a thing exists, but if I don't ask I'll never know and it would be a great addition to our program if we could get one. I used a PDP-11/45 when I worked for AT&T and thing if I could load an OS and a compiler of some type it would be a great learning tool.

    Thank you for your consideration and if you don't know of something free to a non-profit, I would be most appreciative if you could refer me on to someone. I'd appreciate your help.

    Dave Mynatt
    =====
    http://sciencecenter.no-ip.org
    SID ID: S-0258
    APRS UI-View
    KA0SWT
    LAT: 38'16.278" N
    LON: -104'40.537" W
    Alt: 4780ft
    DM78


  2. Re: Assistance

    Hi, Dave.
    Just do you know - info-pdp11 is a mailing list with people from all
    over the world participating. I suspect you need to find someone fairly
    close to your location for this to work. :-)

    But I hope you do find something, since I consider a PDP-11 a much
    better machine to learn something from than a PC.
    However, when we get to the question of software, the situation is
    legally a little unclear today, unless you want to run Unix on it.

    Johnny

    D. Mynatt wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm the program director for a non-profit in Colorado and I am looking for a PDP-11 that we could use to train and introduce students to early computing systems. I know PCs are available and used instead, but I was hoping someone may have a surplus, give away PDP-11 or other mini-mainframe that we could pick up and cart away. I see that at one time you had a couple surplus units, and I was hopeful they may still be available.
    >
    > I'm not sure such a thing exists, but if I don't ask I'll never know and it would be a great addition to our program if we could get one. I used a PDP-11/45 when I worked for AT&T and thing if I could load an OS and a compiler of some type it would be a great learning tool.
    >
    > Thank you for your consideration and if you don't know of something free to a non-profit, I would be most appreciative if you could refer me on to someone. I'd appreciate your help.
    >
    > Dave Mynatt
    > =====
    > http://sciencecenter.no-ip.org
    > SID ID: S-0258
    > APRS UI-View
    > KA0SWT
    > LAT: 38'16.278" N
    > LON: -104'40.537" W
    > Alt: 4780ft
    > DM78
    >




  3. Re: Assistance

    At 9:03 AM -0600 6/5/08, D. Mynatt wrote:
    >Hi,
    >
    >I'm the program director for a non-profit in Colorado and I am
    >looking for a PDP-11 that we could use to train and introduce
    >students to early computing systems. I know PCs are available and
    >used instead, but I was hoping someone may have a surplus, give away
    >PDP-11 or other mini-mainframe that we could pick up and cart away.
    >I see that at one time you had a couple surplus units, and I was
    >hopeful they may still be available.
    >
    >I'm not sure such a thing exists, but if I don't ask I'll never know
    >and it would be a great addition to our program if we could get one.
    >I used a PDP-11/45 when I worked for AT&T and thing if I could load
    >an OS and a compiler of some type it would be a great learning tool.
    >
    >Thank you for your consideration and if you don't know of something
    >free to a non-profit, I would be most appreciative if you could
    >refer me on to someone. I'd appreciate your help.


    This is actually an email list. Though I seem to recall at some
    point someone in Colorado looking to get rid of stuff.

    As a non-profit I'm not sure what your OS options will be (there is
    always UNIX). You might want consider taking a look at emulating a
    system rather than running on real hardware. The downside of
    emulation for something like this is that it is quite a bit slower
    and you can't put your hands on the hardware. The following will
    help point you in the right direction should you choose to go the
    emulation route. http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html

    If you go the hardware route, take what you can get when you can get
    it, soon you'll have enough to put together a working system. Also,
    even though you're interested in a PDP-11, a Q-Bus based MicroVAX can
    be useful in getting the PDP-11 running since the disk controllers
    tend to work on both Q-Bus based PDP-11's and MicroVAXen.

    Zane


    --
    | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
    | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
    | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
    +----------------------------------+----------------------------+
    | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
    | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
    | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |


  4. Re: Assistance

    On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Zane H. Healy wrote:

    ZHH>always UNIX). You might want consider taking a look at emulating a
    ZHH>system rather than running on real hardware. The downside of
    ZHH>emulation for something like this is that it is quite a bit slower
    ZHH>and you can't put your hands on the hardware. The following will

    Why would it be slower? p11 does a complete RSX+ sysgen in less than one
    hour, I think. Floating point performance is even faster... Seeing the
    blinken lights is of course another thing...

    harti

  5. Re: Assistance

    Hartmut Brandt skrev:
    > On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Zane H. Healy wrote:
    >
    > ZHH>always UNIX). You might want consider taking a look at emulating a
    > ZHH>system rather than running on real hardware. The downside of
    > ZHH>emulation for something like this is that it is quite a bit slower
    > ZHH>and you can't put your hands on the hardware. The following will
    >
    > Why would it be slower? p11 does a complete RSX+ sysgen in less than one
    > hour, I think. Floating point performance is even faster... Seeing the
    > blinken lights is of course another thing...


    Depending on the hardware you're running p11 on, of course...
    On the machines I'm running E11, one hour would be considered really slow. :-)
    I think it might take more than 15 minutes though, but that's partly because of
    all the questions you have to answer.

    Johnny

    --
    Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
    || on a psychedelic trip
    email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books
    pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


  6. Re: Assistance

    On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Johnny Billquist wrote:

    JB>Hartmut Brandt skrev:
    JB>> On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Zane H. Healy wrote:
    JB>>
    JB>> ZHH>always UNIX). You might want consider taking a look at emulating a
    JB>> ZHH>system rather than running on real hardware. The downside of
    JB>> ZHH>emulation for something like this is that it is quite a bit slower
    JB>> ZHH>and you can't put your hands on the hardware. The following will
    JB>>
    JB>> Why would it be slower? p11 does a complete RSX+ sysgen in less than one
    JB>> hour, I think. Floating point performance is even faster... Seeing the
    JB>> blinken lights is of course another thing...
    JB>
    JB>Depending on the hardware you're running p11 on, of course...
    JB>On the machines I'm running E11, one hour would be considered really slow. :-)
    JB>I think it might take more than 15 minutes though, but that's partly because of
    JB>all the questions you have to answer.

    Well, last time I tried was at least 4 years ago; machines are faster now
    .... The real breathtaking thing was the floating point performance,
    though...

    harti

  7. Re: Assistance

    Hartmut Brandt skrev:
    > On Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Johnny Billquist wrote:
    >
    > JB>Hartmut Brandt skrev:
    > JB>> On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Zane H. Healy wrote:
    > JB>>
    > JB>> ZHH>always UNIX). You might want consider taking a look at emulating a
    > JB>> ZHH>system rather than running on real hardware. The downside of
    > JB>> ZHH>emulation for something like this is that it is quite a bit slower
    > JB>> ZHH>and you can't put your hands on the hardware. The following will
    > JB>>
    > JB>> Why would it be slower? p11 does a complete RSX+ sysgen in less than one
    > JB>> hour, I think. Floating point performance is even faster... Seeing the
    > JB>> blinken lights is of course another thing...
    > JB>
    > JB>Depending on the hardware you're running p11 on, of course...
    > JB>On the machines I'm running E11, one hour would be considered really slow. :-)
    > JB>I think it might take more than 15 minutes though, but that's partly because of
    > JB>all the questions you have to answer.
    >
    > Well, last time I tried was at least 4 years ago; machines are faster now
    > ... The real breathtaking thing was the floating point performance,
    > though...


    Results from IOX on RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6.
    Command was:

    IOX>fil DU0:
    IOX>start


    E11 (emulating PDP-11/74 with two CPUs online) running on a modern PC:

    A C C U M U L A T E D T O T A L S :
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    TIME -- Run: 5 min. Elapsed: 5 min. Remaining: 0 min.
    DU0: -- 219,973. R/W requests totaling 219,973. blocks with no errors
    AST's executed: 219,978.
    Idle-loop iterations: 219,975.

    PDP-11/93 with SCSI disks:

    A C C U M U L A T E D T O T A L S :
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    TIME -- Run: 5 min. Elapsed: 5 min. Remaining: 0 min.
    DU0: -- 25,586. R/W requests totaling 25,586. blocks with no errors
    AST's executed: 25,592.
    Idle-loop iterations: 5,723.



    Johnny

    --
    Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
    || on a psychedelic trip
    email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books
    pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

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