Problem with RF74 - VMS

This is a discussion on Problem with RF74 - VMS ; We still have an old VAX 4000 model 300 system with an internal RF74 disk. Today the disk stopped working, after a few days of frequently producing errors. All OpenVMS commands that try to access the disk return FORMAT errors, ...

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Thread: Problem with RF74

  1. Problem with RF74

    We still have an old VAX 4000 model 300 system with an internal RF74 disk.
    Today the disk stopped working, after a few days of frequently producing errors.
    All OpenVMS commands that try to access the disk return FORMAT errors,
    like: MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format.
    The most informative message I see is when I log in with SET HOST/dup and
    select the task DKUTILS. The GET command then produces the message:
    All copies of RCT are bad.
    I understand that RCT stands for Revectoring Copy Table.
    I can imagine that this is fatal.
    I am afraid that this means the end of our OpenVMS cluster.
    Is there still hope to bring the disk back with e.g. a low level format?
    If so, how is this accomplished?

  2. Re: Problem with RF74

    Fred Zwarts wrote:
    > We still have an old VAX 4000 model 300 system with an internal RF74 disk.
    > Today the disk stopped working, after a few days of frequently producing errors.
    > All OpenVMS commands that try to access the disk return FORMAT errors,
    > like: MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format.
    > The most informative message I see is when I log in with SET HOST/dup and
    > select the task DKUTILS. The GET command then produces the message:
    > All copies of RCT are bad.
    > I understand that RCT stands for Revectoring Copy Table.
    > I can imagine that this is fatal.


    > I am afraid that this means the end of our OpenVMS cluster.


    Just replace the disk...

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130226936985
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160245587351

    Jan-Erik.


    > Is there still hope to bring the disk back with e.g. a low level format?
    > If so, how is this accomplished?


  3. Re: Problem with RF74

    On Jun 4, 2:31 pm, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    wrote:
    > Fred Zwarts wrote:
    > > We still have an old VAX 4000 model 300 system with an internal RF74 disk.
    > > Today the disk stopped working, after a few days of frequently producingerrors.
    > > All OpenVMS commands that try to access the disk return FORMAT errors,
    > > like: MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format.
    > > The most informative message I see is when I log in with SET HOST/dup and
    > > select the task DKUTILS. The GET command then produces the message:
    > > All copies of RCT are bad.
    > > I understand that RCT stands for Revectoring Copy Table.
    > > I can imagine that this is fatal.
    > > I am afraid that this means the end of our OpenVMS cluster.

    >
    > Just replace the disk...
    >
    > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160245587351
    >
    > Jan-Erik.
    >
    > > Is there still hope to bring the disk back with e.g. a low level format?
    > > If so, how is this accomplished?



    Note that, as these disks have not been made for 20 years, any you get
    from eBay or HP are going to be just as 'good' as the one you have.
    Consider this a hint to move to something a little less pre-historic.
    I've successfully used BA350 cabs with HSD10 controllers and RZ28/9
    disks on this vintage system to replace RF7x disks. Nemonix make new
    RZ28/9 disks.

  4. Re: Problem with RF74

    IanMiller wrote:
    > On Jun 4, 2:31 pm, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    > wrote:
    >> Fred Zwarts wrote:
    >>> We still have an old VAX 4000 model 300 system with an internal RF74 disk.
    >>> Today the disk stopped working, after a few days of frequently producing errors.
    >>> All OpenVMS commands that try to access the disk return FORMAT errors,
    >>> like: MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format.
    >>> The most informative message I see is when I log in with SET HOST/dup and
    >>> select the task DKUTILS. The GET command then produces the message:
    >>> All copies of RCT are bad.
    >>> I understand that RCT stands for Revectoring Copy Table.
    >>> I can imagine that this is fatal.
    >>> I am afraid that this means the end of our OpenVMS cluster.

    >> Just replace the disk...
    >>
    >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160245587351
    >>
    >> Jan-Erik.
    >>
    >>> Is there still hope to bring the disk back with e.g. a low level format?
    >>> If so, how is this accomplished?

    >
    >
    > Note that, as these disks have not been made for 20 years, any you get
    > from eBay or HP are going to be just as 'good' as the one you have...


    Stil better then to EOL the cluster. That seemed to be the
    alternative judging from Fred's original post...

    Jan-Erik.



    > Consider this a hint to move to something a little less pre-historic.
    > I've successfully used BA350 cabs with HSD10 controllers and RZ28/9
    > disks on this vintage system to replace RF7x disks. Nemonix make new
    > RZ28/9 disks.


  5. Re: Problem with RF74

    On Jun 4, 8:00*am, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    wrote:
    > IanMiller wrote:
    > > On Jun 4, 2:31 pm, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    > > wrote:
    > >> Fred Zwarts wrote:
    > >>> We still have an old VAX 4000 model 300 system with an internal RF74 disk.
    > >>> Today the disk stopped working, after a few days of frequently producing errors.
    > >>> All OpenVMS commands that try to access the disk return FORMAT errors,
    > >>> like: MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format.
    > >>> The most informative message I see is when I log in with SET HOST/dup and
    > >>> select the task DKUTILS. The GET command then produces the message:
    > >>> All copies of RCT are bad.
    > >>> I understand that RCT stands for Revectoring Copy Table.
    > >>> I can imagine that this is fatal.
    > >>> I am afraid that this means the end of our OpenVMS cluster.
    > >> Just replace the disk...

    >
    > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...26936985http:/....

    >
    > >> Jan-Erik.

    >
    > >>> Is there still hope to bring the disk back with e.g. a low level format?
    > >>> If so, how is this accomplished?

    >
    > > Note that, as these disks have not been made for 20 years, any you get
    > > from eBay or HP are going to be just as 'good' as the one you have...

    >
    > Stil better then to EOL the cluster. That seemed to be the
    > alternative judging from Fred's original post...
    >
    > Jan-Erik.
    >
    >
    >
    > > Consider this a hint to move to something a little less pre-historic.
    > > I've successfully used BA350 cabs with HSD10 controllers and RZ28/9
    > > disks on this vintage system to replace RF7x disks. Nemonix make new
    > > RZ28/9 disks.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Hi Fred:

    I agree in that the RF74's are "old" drives and need to be "fully"
    tested before installing. (I have one here I would sell if you want
    it)
    Going with the BA350 and an HSZ10 is a "newer" solution but
    it comes along with a new device name which would require a
    little more VMS work on your part. If there is anything I can do to
    help
    regardless of which solution you waht to go with let me know.

    LenW


  6. Re: Problem with RF74

    IanMiller wrote:
    > On Jun 4, 2:31 pm, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    > wrote:
    >> Fred Zwarts wrote:
    >>> We still have an old VAX 4000 model 300 system with an internal RF74 disk.
    >>> Today the disk stopped working, after a few days of frequently producing errors.
    >>> All OpenVMS commands that try to access the disk return FORMAT errors,
    >>> like: MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format.
    >>> The most informative message I see is when I log in with SET HOST/dup and
    >>> select the task DKUTILS. The GET command then produces the message:
    >>> All copies of RCT are bad.
    >>> I understand that RCT stands for Revectoring Copy Table.
    >>> I can imagine that this is fatal.
    >>> I am afraid that this means the end of our OpenVMS cluster.

    >> Just replace the disk...
    >>
    >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160245587351
    >>
    >> Jan-Erik.
    >>
    >>> Is there still hope to bring the disk back with e.g. a low level format?
    >>> If so, how is this accomplished?

    >
    >
    > Note that, as these disks have not been made for 20 years, any you get
    > from eBay or HP are going to be just as 'good' as the one you have.
    > Consider this a hint to move to something a little less pre-historic.
    > I've successfully used BA350 cabs with HSD10 controllers and RZ28/9
    > disks on this vintage system to replace RF7x disks. Nemonix make new
    > RZ28/9 disks.


    I agree with Ian and also recommend a HSD10 (or another HSD controller)
    based solution with RZ* SCSI disks. You can extend the life of your
    cluster and as an extra benefit you get better performance of the
    storage. I have done such solutions to my customers.

    Regards,

    Kari


  7. Re: Problem with RF74

    With something this old you would be better off calling Nemonix and asking
    them.

    These drives, as already stated, are SO SO OLD, that you probably will have
    another failure within a year.

    You could also go with an older SCSI controller (solid state isn't so
    dangerous to buy used)
    There is a CMD board CMD-CQD223 (?) that supported SCSI drives.
    This could then attached to either a BA350 or you could mount a drive inside
    the Vax.
    That would be a safer and cheaper solution than going with replacement RF74
    every few months

    DT

    --
    David B Turner

    =============================================

    Island Computers US Corp
    PO Box 86
    Tybee GA 31328

    Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251
    Email: dturner@islandco.com
    International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749
    Fax: 912 786 8505
    Web: www.islandco.com

    =============================================
    "LenW" wrote in message
    news:f4148f89-b884-47e4-a65f-d1bb937d0f17@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
    On Jun 4, 8:00 am, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    wrote:
    > IanMiller wrote:
    > > On Jun 4, 2:31 pm, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    > > wrote:
    > >> Fred Zwarts wrote:
    > >>> We still have an old VAX 4000 model 300 system with an internal RF74
    > >>> disk.
    > >>> Today the disk stopped working, after a few days of frequently
    > >>> producing errors.
    > >>> All OpenVMS commands that try to access the disk return FORMAT errors,
    > >>> like: MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format.
    > >>> The most informative message I see is when I log in with SET HOST/dup
    > >>> and
    > >>> select the task DKUTILS. The GET command then produces the message:
    > >>> All copies of RCT are bad.
    > >>> I understand that RCT stands for Revectoring Copy Table.
    > >>> I can imagine that this is fatal.
    > >>> I am afraid that this means the end of our OpenVMS cluster.
    > >> Just replace the disk...

    >
    > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...26936985http:/...

    >
    > >> Jan-Erik.

    >
    > >>> Is there still hope to bring the disk back with e.g. a low level
    > >>> format?
    > >>> If so, how is this accomplished?

    >
    > > Note that, as these disks have not been made for 20 years, any you get
    > > from eBay or HP are going to be just as 'good' as the one you have...

    >
    > Stil better then to EOL the cluster. That seemed to be the
    > alternative judging from Fred's original post...
    >
    > Jan-Erik.
    >
    >
    >
    > > Consider this a hint to move to something a little less pre-historic.
    > > I've successfully used BA350 cabs with HSD10 controllers and RZ28/9
    > > disks on this vintage system to replace RF7x disks. Nemonix make new
    > > RZ28/9 disks.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Hi Fred:

    I agree in that the RF74's are "old" drives and need to be "fully"
    tested before installing. (I have one here I would sell if you want
    it)
    Going with the BA350 and an HSZ10 is a "newer" solution but
    it comes along with a new device name which would require a
    little more VMS work on your part. If there is anything I can do to
    help
    regardless of which solution you waht to go with let me know.

    LenW



  8. Re: Problem with RF74

    Nemonix Engineering does provide "new" RF drives.

    (they are new drives with custom logic board to provide the DSSI logic.)

  9. Re: Problem with RF74

    Fred Zwarts wrote:
    > We still have an old VAX 4000 model 300 system with an internal RF74 disk.
    > Today the disk stopped working, after a few days of frequently producing errors.
    > All OpenVMS commands that try to access the disk return FORMAT errors,
    > like: MOUNT-F-FORMAT, invalid media format.
    > The most informative message I see is when I log in with SET HOST/dup and
    > select the task DKUTILS. The GET command then produces the message:
    > All copies of RCT are bad.
    > I understand that RCT stands for Revectoring Copy Table.
    > I can imagine that this is fatal.
    > I am afraid that this means the end of our OpenVMS cluster.
    > Is there still hope to bring the disk back with e.g. a low level format?
    > If so, how is this accomplished?


    I think you had better assume that the disk drive is a total loss! Once
    the media is damaged, the damage tends to avalanche! (That LOUD
    scraping sound!!) I hope you have a recent backup!

    There is a good chance that you may be able to find a replacement drive
    of equal or greater size. I'd ask David B. Turner, a dealer who hangs
    out here about availability of such things. If he doesn't have them in
    stock, he should know where to find them.

    If RF series disks are no longer available, you should consider buying a
    SCSI Host Bus Adapter (HBA).

    Migrating your application to another platform will almost certainly
    cost you far more than replacing the disk or buying a SCSI disk and HBA.

  10. Re: Problem with RF74

    On Jun 4, 9:27 pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    > Nemonix Engineering does provide "new" RF drives.
    >
    > (they are new drives with custom logic board to provide the DSSI logic.)



    They do? I was asking them at the bootcamp about that and got a non-
    committal answer (but it was a noisy room).


  11. Re: Problem with RF74

    IanMiller wrote:

    >> (they are new drives with custom logic board to provide the DSSI logic.)

    >
    >
    > They do? I was asking them at the bootcamp about that and got a non-
    > committal answer (but it was a noisy room).



    As of february 2007, they were able to produce "new" RF drives. Had a
    good chat with Mr Nemonix himself at a Toronto "decus" meeting.

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