Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) - VMS ; In article , Ron Johnson writes: >On 09/04/07 12:30, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article , >> ultradwc@gmail.com writes: >[snip] >>>> >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> 1 Samuel chapter 15 vs 29 >>> >>> " He who is the ...

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Thread: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)

  1. Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)

    In article , Ron Johnson
    writes:
    >On 09/04/07 12:30, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
    >> In article <1188926008.865710.82670@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.co m>,
    >> ultradwc@gmail.com writes:

    >[snip]
    >>>>
    >>>> - Show quoted text -
    >>> 1 Samuel chapter 15 vs 29
    >>>
    >>> " He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for
    >>> he is not a man, that he should change his mind."
    >>>

    >> So we should be following everything in the old testament ? - the
    >> modifications made in the New Testament can not be valid because God
    >> can never change his mind ? So for instance Christians should all be
    >> eating only Kosher food and all men should be circumcised.

    >
    >a) - Jesus is/was supposed to be the fulfillment of the Law. Now that
    >Jesus was the final sacrifice under the Law and expiated our sin
    >(instead of the temporary propitiation via animal blood), we live under
    >Grace, not Law.


    Hello did you read 1. Mose 9.1-7. Here God says: you can eat all what you
    want, but without his blood. In the later days, God did change this for
    Israel. I think, that this was necessary to prevent his folk for some
    illnesses. They did not have the same possibilities like we (Trichinen,
    etc). This restriction was helpful instruction, not a law. So God did not
    change his mind. He did help his folk to survive.

    Best regards Rudolf Wingert


  2. Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)

    In article <001a01c7f114$74840ec0$994614ac@domina.fom>, "Rudolf Wingert" writes:
    >In article , Ron Johnson
    > writes:
    >>On 09/04/07 12:30, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
    >>> In article <1188926008.865710.82670@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.co m>,
    >>> ultradwc@gmail.com writes:

    >>[snip]
    >>>>>
    >>>>> - Show quoted text -
    >>>> 1 Samuel chapter 15 vs 29
    >>>>
    >>>> " He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for
    >>>> he is not a man, that he should change his mind."
    >>>>
    >>> So we should be following everything in the old testament ? - the
    >>> modifications made in the New Testament can not be valid because God
    >>> can never change his mind ? So for instance Christians should all be
    >>> eating only Kosher food and all men should be circumcised.

    >>
    >>a) - Jesus is/was supposed to be the fulfillment of the Law. Now that
    >>Jesus was the final sacrifice under the Law and expiated our sin
    >>(instead of the temporary propitiation via animal blood), we live under
    >>Grace, not Law.

    >
    >Hello did you read 1. Mose 9.1-7. Here God says: you can eat all what you
    >want, but without his blood.


    I was a bit thrown by the Mose abreviation I usually refer to that as
    Genesis 9.4 where God is talking to Noah and his sons

    "But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat".

    >In the later days, God did change this for
    >Israel.


    Leviticus chapter 11 God instructing Moses and Aaaron.

    >I think, that this was necessary to prevent his folk for some
    >illnesses. They did not have the same possibilities like we (Trichinen,
    >etc). This restriction was helpful instruction, not a law.


    How do you know when an instruction from God is a helpful suggestion, which you
    can ignore if you wish because you think things have changed and you know
    better, and a Law ?

    I think a lot of Jews still regard it as God's Law even though they are
    perfectly well aware of how conditions have changed.


    >So God did not
    >change his mind. He did help his folk to survive.
    >


    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University



    >Best regards Rudolf Wingert
    >


  3. Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)

    On Sep 9, 11:51 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
    > In article <001a01c7f114$74840ec0$99461...@domina.fom>, "Rudolf Wingert" writes:
    > >In article , Ron Johnson
    > > writes:
    > >>On 09/04/07 12:30, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
    > >>> In article <1188926008.865710.82...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.co m>,
    > >>> ultra...@gmail.com writes:
    > >>[snip]

    >
    > >>>>> - Show quoted text -
    > >>>> 1 Samuel chapter 15 vs 29

    >
    > >>>> " He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for
    > >>>> he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

    >
    > >>> So we should be following everything in the old testament ? - the
    > >>> modifications made in the New Testament can not be valid because God
    > >>> can never change his mind ? So for instance Christians should all be
    > >>> eating only Kosher food and all men should be circumcised.

    >
    > >>a) - Jesus is/was supposed to be the fulfillment of the Law. Now that
    > >>Jesus was the final sacrifice under the Law and expiated our sin
    > >>(instead of the temporary propitiation via animal blood), we live under
    > >>Grace, not Law.

    >
    > >Hello did you read 1. Mose 9.1-7. Here God says: you can eat all what you
    > >want, but without his blood.

    >
    > I was a bit thrown by the Mose abreviation I usually refer to that as
    > Genesis 9.4 where God is talking to Noah and his sons
    >
    > "But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat".
    >
    > >In the later days, God did change this for
    > >Israel.


    Changed how? Please provide specific sources.

    >
    > Leviticus chapter 11 God instructing Moses and Aaaron.


    There are other parts of the Pentateuch that discuss dietary
    restrictions, including the forbidding of eating blood. See Leviticus
    7:27, 17:10, and 17:11, e.g.

    >
    > >I think, that this was necessary to prevent his folk for some
    > >illnesses. They did not have the same possibilities like we (Trichinen,
    > >etc). This restriction was helpful instruction, not a law.


    So you mention an illness you claim they didn't have to worry about. I
    don't see how that helps make your point.

    >
    > How do you know when an instruction from God is a helpful suggestion, which you
    > can ignore if you wish because you think things have changed and you know
    > better, and a Law ?
    >
    > I think a lot of Jews still regard it as God's Law even though they are
    > perfectly well aware of how conditions have changed.


    The Jewish dietary laws are indeed laws, not suggestions (except in
    Reform Judaism, perhaps -- I think the Reform movement relaxes the
    dietary restrictions somewhat, maybe just the meat and milk rule, I'm
    not sure).

    >
    > >So God did not
    > >change his mind. He did help his folk to survive.


    No mention of poisonous fruit, etc., to avoid.

    >
    > David Webb
    > Security team leader
    > CCSS
    > Middlesex University>Best regards Rudolf Wingert


    AEF


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