If PL/1 is the king of languages... - VMS

This is a discussion on If PL/1 is the king of languages... - VMS ; .... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages? http://www.kednos.com/kednos/Welcome http://www.kednos.com/pli/king.pdf -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!...

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  1. If PL/1 is the king of languages...


    .... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?

    http://www.kednos.com/kednos/Welcome
    http://www.kednos.com/pli/king.pdf

    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  2. Re: If PL/1 is the king of languages...

    Ron Johnson wrote:
    > ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?


    Same reason it's powered by not-COBOL, not-Pascal, not-Fortran ...

    > http://www.kednos.com/kednos/Welcome
    > http://www.kednos.com/pli/king.pdf


    Lighten-up (or is that liten-up? I don't have a Webster's); you know
    where he's coming from ;-)

    --
    Sonja: Oh don't, Boris, please. Sex without love is an empty experience.
    Boris: Yes, but as empty experiences go, it's one of the best.
    [Woody Allen; Love and Death]

  3. Re: If PL/1 is the king of languages...

    On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:
    > Ron Johnson wrote:
    >> ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?

    >
    > Same reason it's powered by not-COBOL, not-Pascal, not-Fortran ...
    >
    >> http://www.kednos.com/kednos/Welcome
    >> http://www.kednos.com/pli/king.pdf

    >
    > Lighten-up (or is that liten-up? I don't have a Webster's); you know
    > where he's coming from ;-)


    I'm sure he's a great guy.

    But he's so gung-ho on PL/I that it's fun to occasionally tease him
    about not eating his own dog food.

    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  4. Re: If PL/1 is the king of languages...

    Ron Johnson wrote:
    > On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:
    >
    >>Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>
    >>>... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?

    >>
    >>Same reason it's powered by not-COBOL, not-Pascal, not-Fortran ...
    >>
    >>
    >>>http://www.kednos.com/kednos/Welcome
    >>>http://www.kednos.com/pli/king.pdf

    >>
    >>Lighten-up (or is that liten-up? I don't have a Webster's); you know
    >>where he's coming from ;-)

    >
    >
    > I'm sure he's a great guy.
    >
    > But he's so gung-ho on PL/I that it's fun to occasionally tease him
    > about not eating his own dog food.


    I've never met the man.
    I do know he's an enthusiastic golfer.
    I'd say we have little in common :-)
    I'd also guess Tom feels strongly enough about '...does not stop you
    doing stupid things, because that would also stop you doing clever
    things” as being largely overtaken by events and that in most cases we
    should be prevented from doing those stupid things (like overrunning
    array bounds). Of course it may just be that PL/I provides him with a
    better grade of golf course :-)

    --
    Sonja: There are many different kinds of love, Boris. There's love
    between a man and a woman; between a mother and son...
    Boris: Two women. Let's not forget my favorite.
    [Woody Allen; Love and Death]

  5. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:32:36 -0700, Mark Daniel
    wrote:

    > Ron Johnson wrote:
    >> On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?


    It is in a way, financially. But even if I were to write a web server in
    PL/I why would I? Mark has done such a fine job with WASD, and it is
    well written. I frankly don't understand why HP doesn't throw Apache and
    promote WASD. I have Apache running on a Tru64 system, or did, and there
    is no comparison.

    >>>
    >>> Same reason it's powered by not-COBOL, not-Pascal, not-Fortran ...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> http://www.kednos.com/kednos/Welcome
    >>>> http://www.kednos.com/pli/king.pdf
    >>>
    >>> Lighten-up (or is that liten-up? I don't have a Webster's); you know
    >>> where he's coming from ;-)

    >> I'm sure he's a great guy.
    >> But he's so gung-ho on PL/I that it's fun to occasionally tease him
    >> about not eating his own dog food.

    >
    > I've never met the man.
    > I do know he's an enthusiastic golfer.
    > I'd say we have little in common :-)
    > I'd also guess Tom feels strongly enough about '...does not stop you
    > doing stupid things, because that would also stop you doing clever
    > things” as being largely overtaken by events and that in most cases we
    > should be prevented from doing those stupid things (like overrunning
    > array bounds). Of course it may just be that PL/I provides him with a
    > better grade of golf course :-)


    It does, and if you can demonstrate adequate proficiency in PL/I I may
    just treat you to a round if you come to Pebble Beach, (Are you
    listening, Fred?) :-)
    >
    > --
    > Sonja: There are many different kinds of love, Boris. There's love
    > between a man and a woman; between a mother and son...
    > Boris: Two women. Let's not forget my favorite.
    > [Woody Allen; Love and Death]




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  6. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Sep 2, 9:15 am, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    > On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:32:36 -0700, Mark Daniel
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Ron Johnson wrote:
    > >> On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:

    >
    > >>> Ron Johnson wrote:

    >
    > >>>> ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?

    >
    > It is in a way, financially. But even if I were to write a web server in
    > PL/I why would I? Mark has done such a fine job with WASD, and it is
    > well written. I frankly don't understand why HP doesn't throw Apache and
    > promote WASD. I have Apache running on a Tru64 system, or did, and there
    > is no comparison.
    >


    Sadly, as we all know, the "best" doesn't always win and the most
    successful is often not technically the best.

    If I'd paid attention to that fact so many years ago, I would have
    bought Microsoft stock rather than that of the companies with the best
    products; in some areas of life technical knowledge can be a handicap.


  7. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On 09/02/07 09:15, Tom Linden wrote:
    > On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:32:36 -0700, Mark Daniel
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>> On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?

    >
    > It is in a way, financially. But even if I were to write a web server in
    > PL/I why would I? Mark has done such a fine job with WASD, and it is
    > well written. I frankly don't understand why HP doesn't throw Apache and
    > promote WASD. I have Apache running on a Tru64 system, or did, and there
    > is no comparison.


    While "why didn't he write the web server in PL/1?" *did*
    momentarily cross my mind, that was quickly discarded for practical
    reasons.

    What I was really thinking more of was the Python-powered pages.

    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  8. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:47:48 -0700, Ron Johnson
    wrote:

    > On 09/02/07 09:15, Tom Linden wrote:
    >> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:32:36 -0700, Mark Daniel
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>> On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?

    >>
    >> It is in a way, financially. But even if I were to write a web server
    >> in
    >> PL/I why would I? Mark has done such a fine job with WASD, and it is
    >> well written. I frankly don't understand why HP doesn't throw Apache
    >> and
    >> promote WASD. I have Apache running on a Tru64 system, or did, and
    >> there
    >> is no comparison.

    >
    > While "why didn't he write the web server in PL/1?" *did*
    > momentarily cross my mind, that was quickly discarded for practical
    > reasons.
    >
    > What I was really thinking more of was the Python-powered pages.


    The thought cross my mind, but Jean-François Piéronne had already done
    the trail blazing so there was no point to reinvent the wheel.
    >




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  9. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On 09/02/07 21:11, Tom Linden wrote:
    > On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:47:48 -0700, Ron Johnson
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 09/02/07 09:15, Tom Linden wrote:
    >>> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:32:36 -0700, Mark Daniel
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>> On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?
    >>>
    >>> It is in a way, financially. But even if I were to write a web
    >>> server in
    >>> PL/I why would I? Mark has done such a fine job with WASD, and it is
    >>> well written. I frankly don't understand why HP doesn't throw Apache
    >>> and
    >>> promote WASD. I have Apache running on a Tru64 system, or did, and
    >>> there
    >>> is no comparison.

    >>
    >> While "why didn't he write the web server in PL/1?" *did*
    >> momentarily cross my mind, that was quickly discarded for practical
    >> reasons.
    >>
    >> What I was really thinking more of was the Python-powered pages.

    >
    > The thought cross my mind, but Jean-François Piéronne had already done
    > the trail blazing so there was no point to reinvent the wheel.


    Mmm-hmmph. So, you're saying that PL/1 is not adequate to the task?
    Such a great language shouldn't need much wheel-reinventing, right?

    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  10. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Sep 2, 10:11 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote:


    Tom,

    Just out of curiosity, what language are the PL/I compiler and run-
    time libraries written in?

    Your web site mentions that you do not have a native Itanium compiler
    available, but the run-time library is available as a native shared
    image. That suggest to me that perhaps the compiler and run-times are
    written in different languages.


  11. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:04:34 -0700, Ron Johnson
    wrote:

    > On 09/02/07 21:11, Tom Linden wrote:
    >> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:47:48 -0700, Ron Johnson
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 09/02/07 09:15, Tom Linden wrote:
    >>>> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:32:36 -0700, Mark Daniel
    >>>>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>>> On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?
    >>>>
    >>>> It is in a way, financially. But even if I were to write a web
    >>>> server in
    >>>> PL/I why would I? Mark has done such a fine job with WASD, and it is
    >>>> well written. I frankly don't understand why HP doesn't throw Apache
    >>>> and
    >>>> promote WASD. I have Apache running on a Tru64 system, or did, and
    >>>> there
    >>>> is no comparison.
    >>>
    >>> While "why didn't he write the web server in PL/1?" *did*
    >>> momentarily cross my mind, that was quickly discarded for practical
    >>> reasons.
    >>>
    >>> What I was really thinking more of was the Python-powered pages.

    >>
    >> The thought cross my mind, but Jean-François Piéronne had already done
    >> the trail blazing so there was no point to reinvent the wheel.

    >
    > Mmm-hmmph. So, you're saying that PL/1 is not adequate to the task?
    > Such a great language shouldn't need much wheel-reinventing, right?
    >

    Why recode an app that is working?



    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  12. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 04:41:16 -0700, FrankS wrote:

    > On Sep 2, 10:11 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    >
    >
    > Tom,
    >
    > Just out of curiosity, what language are the PL/I compiler and run-
    > time libraries written in?
    >
    > Your web site mentions that you do not have a native Itanium compiler
    > available, but the run-time library is available as a native shared
    > image. That suggest to me that perhaps the compiler and run-times are
    > written in different languages.
    >

    Compiler is mostly PL/I and TBL (Table Building Language) runtime is VAX
    macro
    and recoded in C and some Bliss on Alpha and (I didn't do, Digital did)



    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  13. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Sep 3, 3:05 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    > Compiler is mostly PL/I and TBL (Table Building Language) runtime
    > is VAX macro and recoded in C and some Bliss on Alpha and
    > (I didn't do, Digital did)


    *MOSTLY* written in PL/I and TBL? Not entirely in PL/I?

    Why haven't you written the runtime routines in PL/I rather than C or
    Bliss?

    On Sep 2, 10:04 am, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    > As for Cobol, I can't think of anything that is better with it. Ditto for
    > C, Ditto for Fortran. I think that this is generally true for algorithmic
    > languages (didn't include Algol, Burroughs was the last hold-out)


    If PL/I is the king of languages and there's nothing in C that's
    better than it, then why isn't the entire PL/I compiler and runtime
    written in PL/I?

    Hmmmm.... Maybe there are cases where those other languages are better
    suited than PL/I.


  14. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:44:51 -0700, FrankS wrote:

    > On Sep 3, 3:05 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    >> Compiler is mostly PL/I and TBL (Table Building Language) runtime
    >> is VAX macro and recoded in C and some Bliss on Alpha and
    >> (I didn't do, Digital did)

    >
    > *MOSTLY* written in PL/I and TBL? Not entirely in PL/I?
    >
    > Why haven't you written the runtime routines in PL/I rather than C or
    > Bliss?
    >
    > On Sep 2, 10:04 am, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    >> As for Cobol, I can't think of anything that is better with it. Ditto
    >> for
    >> C, Ditto for Fortran. I think that this is generally true for
    >> algorithmic
    >> languages (didn't include Algol, Burroughs was the last hold-out)

    >
    > If PL/I is the king of languages and there's nothing in C that's
    > better than it, then why isn't the entire PL/I compiler and runtime
    > written in PL/I?


    Because Digital never had particularly good software engineering management
    allowed their engineers to free a rein. We used to use a small collection
    of
    utility routines written in a vareity of low level languages, Assembler
    and C
    mostly to facilitate the bootstrapping of the compiler, which in the first
    step was a cross-compiler.

    >
    > Hmmmm.... Maybe there are cases where those other languages are better
    > suited than PL/I.
    >

    I will overlook the cute remark.


    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  15. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On 09/03/07 14:02, Tom Linden wrote:
    > On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:04:34 -0700, Ron Johnson
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 09/02/07 21:11, Tom Linden wrote:
    >>> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:47:48 -0700, Ron Johnson
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On 09/02/07 09:15, Tom Linden wrote:
    >>>>> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:32:36 -0700, Mark Daniel
    >>>>>
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>>>> On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It is in a way, financially. But even if I were to write a web
    >>>>> server in
    >>>>> PL/I why would I? Mark has done such a fine job with WASD, and it is
    >>>>> well written. I frankly don't understand why HP doesn't throw Apache
    >>>>> and
    >>>>> promote WASD. I have Apache running on a Tru64 system, or did, and
    >>>>> there
    >>>>> is no comparison.
    >>>>
    >>>> While "why didn't he write the web server in PL/1?" *did*
    >>>> momentarily cross my mind, that was quickly discarded for practical
    >>>> reasons.
    >>>>
    >>>> What I was really thinking more of was the Python-powered pages.
    >>>
    >>> The thought cross my mind, but Jean-François Piéronne had already done
    >>> the trail blazing so there was no point to reinvent the wheel.

    >>
    >> Mmm-hmmph. So, you're saying that PL/1 is not adequate to the task?
    >> Such a great language shouldn't need much wheel-reinventing, right?
    >>

    > Why recode an app that is working?


    Why code it in Python in the first place?

    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  16. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Sep 3, 11:44 pm, FrankS wrote:
    >
    > If PL/I is the king of languages and there's nothing in C that's
    > better than it, then why isn't the entire PL/I compiler and runtime
    > written in PL/I?
    >
    > Hmmmm.... Maybe there are cases where those other languages are better
    > suited than PL/I.


    We all know that companies more often than not choose solutions that
    are more expensive, less reliable and much more difficult to maintain.
    Better technology is no argument in such cases. DEC/Compaq/HP is no
    exception to this.

    The PL/I runtime library is probably just an other example.

    Bart Zorn


  17. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    In article <1188855891.325159.326310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups. com>, FrankS writes:
    > On Sep 3, 3:05 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    >> Compiler is mostly PL/I and TBL (Table Building Language) runtime
    >> is VAX macro and recoded in C and some Bliss on Alpha and
    >> (I didn't do, Digital did)

    >
    > *MOSTLY* written in PL/I and TBL? Not entirely in PL/I?


    Tom can answer for the TBL part, but for any VMS compiler parts of
    it better be written in MESSAGE, CLD, SDL, etc.

    > Why haven't you written the runtime routines in PL/I rather than C or
    > Bliss?


    I cannot answer for Tom, but rewriting a working program into
    a different language just for the sake of language purity is a
    path fraught with peril.

    I have engaged in rewriting a mission-critical working program
    from a lower level language to a higher level language because
    there was a need to totally eliminate the use of static variables.
    The result worked, but it took several years and the original
    impetus that made the need high priority had dissipated. The
    percentage of users who really need the capabilities enabled
    by elimination of the static variables is minimal today.

  18. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:06:51 -0700, Ron Johnson
    wrote:

    > On 09/03/07 14:02, Tom Linden wrote:
    >> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:04:34 -0700, Ron Johnson
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 09/02/07 21:11, Tom Linden wrote:
    >>>> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:47:48 -0700, Ron Johnson
    >>>>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 09/02/07 09:15, Tom Linden wrote:
    >>>>>> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:32:36 -0700, Mark Daniel
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>>>>> On 09/02/07 00:17, Mark Daniel wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Ron Johnson wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It is in a way, financially. But even if I were to write a web
    >>>>>> server in
    >>>>>> PL/I why would I? Mark has done such a fine job with WASD, and it
    >>>>>> is
    >>>>>> well written. I frankly don't understand why HP doesn't throw
    >>>>>> Apache
    >>>>>> and
    >>>>>> promote WASD. I have Apache running on a Tru64 system, or did, and
    >>>>>> there
    >>>>>> is no comparison.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> While "why didn't he write the web server in PL/1?" *did*
    >>>>> momentarily cross my mind, that was quickly discarded for practical
    >>>>> reasons.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What I was really thinking more of was the Python-powered pages.
    >>>>
    >>>> The thought cross my mind, but Jean-François Piéronne had already done
    >>>> the trail blazing so there was no point to reinvent the wheel.
    >>>
    >>> Mmm-hmmph. So, you're saying that PL/1 is not adequate to the task?
    >>> Such a great language shouldn't need much wheel-reinventing, right?
    >>>

    >> Why recode an app that is working?

    >
    > Why code it in Python in the first place?
    >

    I don't, you have to ask J-F


    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  19. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 04:54:38 -0700, Larry Kilgallen
    wrote:

    > In article <1188855891.325159.326310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups. com>,
    > FrankS writes:
    >> On Sep 3, 3:05 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    >>> Compiler is mostly PL/I and TBL (Table Building Language) runtime
    >>> is VAX macro and recoded in C and some Bliss on Alpha and
    >>> (I didn't do, Digital did)

    >>
    >> *MOSTLY* written in PL/I and TBL? Not entirely in PL/I?

    TBL is a tool written in PL/I which implements a table-driven interpreter
    organized as a stack machine. The interpreter is written in PL/I. The TBL
    output is a byte stream which drives the interpreter. Alles klar, Capice?
    >
    > Tom can answer for the TBL part, but for any VMS compiler parts of
    > it better be written in MESSAGE, CLD, SDL, etc.
    >
    >> Why haven't you written the runtime routines in PL/I rather than C or
    >> Bliss?


    Had I managed the effort instead of Cutler and his successors, it would
    have been PL/I indeed, but as Larry points recoding it for purity is
    of dubious value.

    >
    > I cannot answer for Tom, but rewriting a working program into
    > a different language just for the sake of language purity is a
    > path fraught with peril.
    >
    > I have engaged in rewriting a mission-critical working program
    > from a lower level language to a higher level language because
    > there was a need to totally eliminate the use of static variables.
    > The result worked, but it took several years and the original
    > impetus that made the need high priority had dissipated. The
    > percentage of users who really need the capabilities enabled
    > by elimination of the static variables is minimal today.




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  20. Re: If PL/I is the king of languages...

    On Sep 1, 9:03 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote:
    > Never understood why talented people waste their time using
    > crappy languages.


    On Sep 4, 7:54 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:
    > I cannot answer for Tom, but rewriting a working program into
    > a different language just for the sake of language purity is a
    > path fraught with peril.


    On Sep 4, 3:46 am, "Bart.Z...@gmail.com" wrote:
    > We all know that companies more often than not choose solutions that
    > are more expensive, less reliable and much more difficult to maintain.
    > Better technology is no argument in such cases. DEC/Compaq/HP is no
    > exception to this.
    >
    > The PL/I runtime library is probably just an other example.


    Tom gives the appearance (IMHO) of being a PL/I purist. I don't think
    there can be too much argument there, with his "crappy language"
    critique and other comments about how PL/I is superior to C, COBOL,
    FORTRAN, and other languages. He also made other comments that could
    be collectively interpreted (IMHO) as "any choice of a primary
    implementation language which requires the use of another language for
    utility routines demonstrates the inadequacy of the primary language".

    We discover, now, that in his own flagship product (the PL/I compiler)
    he chooses not to use PL/I exclusively. Since he is (presumably) no
    longer employed by DEC/Compaq/HP then he should be free to rewrite the
    runtime in PL/I. Maybe even produce his own TBL routines implemented
    in PL/I. Of course, he'll fall back on the "don't reinvent the wheel"
    cliche for his own purposes while criticizing others for not writing/
    rewriting applications in PL/I.

    The fact is -- as I and others have pointed out -- that no single
    programming language is king of all others. They all have their
    strong and weak points, and sometimes the application (like a
    compiler, for example) demands that a mix of languages be used in its
    implementation. And those other languages are not "crappy" just
    because they're not PL/I.


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