Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:55:00 -0700, <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> wrote on 08/29/2007 01:28:41 PM:
>[color=green]
>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:06:04 -0700, <richards.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > I'm a computer-assisted reporting specialist at a newspaper in Nevada
>> > -- my beat is essentially data mining in the public realm. I'm in the
>> > middle of negotiations for inspection records kept by the local health
>> > district in a VAX minicomputer that probably runs VMS. They are
>> > basically telling me that their system has no way of exporting data
>> > that's been entered over the years, which I find highly unlikely.
>> > Their IT department probably (a) doesn't know how or (b) just doesn't
>> > feel like it and hopes that this response will make me go away.
>> >
>> > All I want is a dump of these records into a file -- ideally as ASCII
>> > text, fixed-width or character-delimited. I've talked to some
>> > colleagues who have had limited VAX/VMS experience and have been told
>> > this is entirely possible: "They should definitely be able to get the
>> > data out, they might want to send it on a tape format, but unless
>> > they've got some really bizarre system, they should be able to copy it
>> > to some physical device or they can probably transfer it over a
>> > network to some other system to copy the data on to."
>> >
>> > Even if they have to dump it to reel-to-reel tapes or cartridges, I
>> > have a consultant in Missouri with equipment to transfer it to a
>> > different medium.
>> >
>> > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Specific information like:
>> > - Further things to find out about their VAX computer
>> > - Commands to transfer this data out of the system in a usable format
>> >
>> > If I'm just out of luck and will have to spend hours building my own
>> > database from paper documents, I'd like to know that too.
>> >[/color]
>> They are giving you the run-around, there is likely many different ways[/color]
> to[color=green]
>> extract the data, the method chosen depends on how it is stored.[/color]
>
> Tom is of course correct on all points.
>
> If the data is in a flat file, exporting it is easiest.
> If the data is encoded or in a database, some programming
> may be needed to reformat it.
>
> They may be saying there is no utility program supplied with their system
> to do this, but that is a far cry from making the task impossible.
>
> It comes down to resources, one of which is expertise.
>
> Getting it "off" the system is another eminently meetable challenge.
>
> The div'l'z in th' details.[/color]

Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads
by
indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that?
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Alex Richards
>> > CAR Specialist
>> > Las Vegas Sun
>> >[/color]
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> PL/I for OpenVMS
>> [url]www.kednos.com[/url][/color][/color]



--
PL/I for OpenVMS
[url]www.kednos.com[/url]

In article <op.txt19h06hv4qyg@murphus>,
"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> writes:[color=blue]
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:55:00 -0700, <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> The div'l'z in th' details.[/color]
>
> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads
> by
> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that?[/color]

My guess would be because his message has no "References:" header
and appears as a new thread. :-) How or why he did this is anyone's
guess.

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
[email]bill@cs.scranton.edu[/email] | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

On 2007-08-29 20:13, "Tom Linden" wrote:
[color=blue]
> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads
> by
> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that?[/color]

I don't know Opera -- but there is *no* "References:" header at all in
that posting which made its way through Info-VAX.

Michael

--
Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.
My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.

On 08/29/07 15:22, Michael Unger wrote:[color=blue]
> On 2007-08-29 20:13, "Tom Linden" wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads
>> by
>> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that?[/color]
>
> I don't know Opera -- but there is *no* "References:" header at all in
> that posting which made its way through Info-VAX.[/color]

Actually, there is. The Info-VAX maintainer fixed it a couple of
weeks ago.

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

In article <op.txt19h06hv4qyg@murphus>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> writes:[color=blue]
>
> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads
> by
> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that?[/color]

An Opera bug? anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's reply
as the next in thread.

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:10:07 -0700, Bob Koehler
<koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <op.txt19h06hv4qyg@murphus>, "Tom Linden"
> <tom@kednos.company> writes:[color=green]
>>
>> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying
>> threads
>> by
>> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that?[/color]
>
> An Opera bug? anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's reply
> as the next in thread.
>[/color]
Don't think so.


--
PL/I for OpenVMS
[url]www.kednos.com[/url]

Tom Linden wrote:[color=blue]
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:10:07 -0700, Bob Koehler
> <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> In article <op.txt19h06hv4qyg@murphus>, "Tom Linden"
>> <tom@kednos.company> writes:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying
>>> threads
>>> by
>>> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that?[/color]
>>
>>
>> An Opera bug? anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's reply
>> as the next in thread.
>>[/color]
> Don't think so.
>
>[/color]
Everything looked properly threaded to me (Mozilla on VMS).



--
John Santos
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
781-861-0670 ext 539

In article <bPJBi.13395$Yg.8368@trnddc02>,
John Santos <john@egh.com> writes:[color=blue]
> Tom Linden wrote:[color=green]
>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:10:07 -0700, Bob Koehler
>> <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> In article <op.txt19h06hv4qyg@murphus>, "Tom Linden"
>>> <tom@kednos.company> writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying
>>>> threads
>>>> by
>>>> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that?
>>>
>>>
>>> An Opera bug? anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's reply
>>> as the next in thread.
>>>[/color]
>> Don't think so.
>>
>>[/color]
> Everything looked properly threaded to me (Mozilla on VMS).[/color]

I have put up a graphical representation of the thread as it exists
now on my web page (generated by my newsreader).
[url]http://www.cs.uofs.edu/~bill/Thread.jpg[/url]

If you look you will see that Norm's messages are "threaded" by the
subject, but not included within the thread it self each one starting
a new thread within this subject. For whatever reason, the References:
header has been removed thus making the message part of the subject
line but not threaded based on it's references to other messages but
merely by the date/time it was posted. I will leave it to others to
determine how to fix this as I do not even know what he is using to
read/post news. I suspect he is doing it thru Info-VAX and I have no
idea how that might affect what headers are preserved and which are
lost.

bill
(Who has been administering real News Sites since we did this using UUCP.)


--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
[email]bill@cs.scranton.edu[/email] | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>