Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book? - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book? - VMS ; From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) > >> $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip > >> $ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx > >> > >> well, it should read > >> > >> $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip > >> $ set ...

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Thread: Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

  1. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)

    > >> $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    > >> $ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx
    > >>
    > >> well, it should read
    > >>
    > >> $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    > >> $ set def [.ht_root]
    > >> $ unzip "-v" [-]opensslwasdxxx


    My question would be, 'Why the quotation of "-v"?' I can see why
    "-V" might need quotation, but not "-v".

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
    382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
    Saint Paul MN 55105-2547

  2. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article <07082521421814_2022C7FA@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes:
    > From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)
    >
    >> >> $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >> >> $ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx
    >> >>
    >> >> well, it should read
    >> >>
    >> >> $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >> >> $ set def [.ht_root]
    >> >> $ unzip "-v" [-]opensslwasdxxx

    >
    > My question would be, 'Why the quotation of "-v"?' I can see why
    > "-V" might need quotation, but not "-v".


    Absent quotation marks, DCL will upcase letters.

    Thus -v or -V will be seen by the program as -V.

    I don't know what -v or -V means, and I try to avoid using programs
    that do not "speak" DCL, but that is how character processing works
    on a vanilla VMS account.

  3. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    Larry Kilgallen wrote:
    > In article <07082521421814_2022C7FA@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes:
    >
    >>From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)
    >>
    >>
    >>>>>$ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >>>>>$ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx
    >>>>>
    >>>>>well, it should read
    >>>>>
    >>>>>$ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >>>>>$ set def [.ht_root]
    >>>>>$ unzip "-v" [-]opensslwasdxxx

    >>
    >> My question would be, 'Why the quotation of "-v"?' I can see why
    >>"-V" might need quotation, but not "-v".

    >
    >
    > Absent quotation marks, DCL will upcase letters.


    The C-RTL complicates that by ensuring the command-line arguments passed
    to main() have been lower-cased hence quoting preserves upper-case.

    > Thus -v or -V will be seen by the program as -V.
    >
    > I don't know what -v or -V means, and I try to avoid using programs
    > that do not "speak" DCL, but that is how character processing works
    > on a vanilla VMS account.


    As the original context was a WASD related posting ...

    $ UNZIP -H

    describes it as

    -V retain VMS version numbers

    in contrast to

    -v list verbosely/show version info

    while

    $ ZIP -H

    describes it more accurately

    "-V" save VMS file attributes

    So the "-V" is specified by the WASD install instructions ensures the
    original file attributes stored when ZIPed using "-V" are reflected in
    the files created by the UNZIP. The quotes are required to preserve the
    upper-case of the option.

    --
    Death: You're an interesting young man. We'll meet again.
    Young Boris: Don't bother.
    Death: It's no bother.
    [Woody Allen; Love and Death]

  4. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article <13d3pv3rp0rnd3c@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Daniel writes:

    > The C-RTL complicates that by ensuring the command-line arguments passed
    > to main() have been lower-cased hence quoting preserves upper-case.


    Yuck !

  5. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article <13d3pv3rp0rnd3c@corp.supernews.com>,
    Mark Daniel writes:
    > Larry Kilgallen wrote:
    >> In article <07082521421814_2022C7FA@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes:
    >>
    >>>From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>well, it should read
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >>>>>>$ set def [.ht_root]
    >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" [-]opensslwasdxxx
    >>>
    >>> My question would be, 'Why the quotation of "-v"?' I can see why
    >>>"-V" might need quotation, but not "-v".

    >>
    >>
    >> Absent quotation marks, DCL will upcase letters.

    >
    > The C-RTL complicates that by ensuring the command-line arguments passed
    > to main() have been lower-cased hence quoting preserves upper-case.
    >


    Can't blame that in C's Unix heritage. On Unix it would have been left
    alone, as it should be!! :-)

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  6. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:
    >
    > Absent quotation marks, DCL will upcase letters.


    Absent quotation marks, the C RTL will lowercase them, thus "-V"
    needs to be quoted and not "-v", unless features introduced several
    years ago are employed, causing C code to get the original case.


  7. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    Mark Daniel wrote:
    > Larry Kilgallen wrote:
    >
    >> In article <07082521421814_2022C7FA@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org
    >> (Steven M. Schweda) writes:
    >>
    >>> From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central
    >>> Computing)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>> $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >>>>>> $ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> well, it should read
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >>>>>> $ set def [.ht_root]
    >>>>>> $ unzip "-v" [-]opensslwasdxxx
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> My question would be, 'Why the quotation of "-v"?' I can see why
    >>> "-V" might need quotation, but not "-v".

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Absent quotation marks, DCL will upcase letters.

    >
    >
    > The C-RTL complicates that by ensuring the command-line arguments passed
    > to main() have been lower-cased hence quoting preserves upper-case.
    >
    >> Thus -v or -V will be seen by the program as -V.
    >>
    >> I don't know what -v or -V means, and I try to avoid using programs
    >> that do not "speak" DCL, but that is how character processing works
    >> on a vanilla VMS account.

    >
    >
    > As the original context was a WASD related posting ...
    >
    > $ UNZIP -H
    >
    > describes it as
    >
    > -V retain VMS version numbers
    >
    > in contrast to
    >
    > -v list verbosely/show version info
    >
    > while
    >
    > $ ZIP -H
    >
    > describes it more accurately
    >
    > "-V" save VMS file attributes
    >
    > So the "-V" is specified by the WASD install instructions ensures the
    > original file attributes stored when ZIPed using "-V" are reflected in
    > the files created by the UNZIP. The quotes are required to preserve the
    > upper-case of the option.


    That would not be correct. -V is used by ZIP to preserve file
    attributes. It has an entirely different meaning in UNZIP (where it
    means to preserve version numbers). Preserving file attributes is
    controlled entirely by the ZIP file creation process. If the attributes
    are saved, they will be restored by UNZIP. No switch in UNZIP is
    required to (or can) cause this.

    Quoting switches to preserve case is required only in fairly ancient
    versions of VMS. I haven't quoted unix-style arguments for a number of
    years now.

    Mark Berryman

  8. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    On Aug 27, 7:33 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > In article <13d3pv3rp0rn...@corp.supernews.com>,
    > Mark Daniel writes:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > Larry Kilgallen wrote:
    > >> In article <07082521421814_2022C...@antinode.org>, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes:

    >
    > >>>From: wins...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)

    >
    > >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    > >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx

    >
    > >>>>>>well, it should read

    >
    > >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    > >>>>>>$ set def [.ht_root]
    > >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" [-]opensslwasdxxx

    >
    > >>> My question would be, 'Why the quotation of "-v"?' I can see why
    > >>>"-V" might need quotation, but not "-v".

    >
    > >> Absent quotation marks, DCL will upcase letters.

    >
    > > The C-RTL complicates that by ensuring the command-line arguments passed
    > > to main() have been lower-cased hence quoting preserves upper-case.

    >
    > Can't blame that in C's Unix heritage. On Unix it would have been left
    > alone, as it should be!! :-)
    >
    > bill
    >
    > --
    > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    > University of Scranton |
    > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include - Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    unix should be sent up with the next space
    shuttle and left there ... then it could watch
    the hubble run by a real OS ... VMS ...



  9. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article <1188301316.368006.186330@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.c om>,
    ultradwc@gmail.com writes:
    > On Aug 27, 7:33 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> In article <13d3pv3rp0rn...@corp.supernews.com>,
    >> Mark Daniel writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > Larry Kilgallen wrote:
    >> >> In article <07082521421814_2022C...@antinode.org>, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes:

    >>
    >> >>>From: wins...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)

    >>
    >> >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >> >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx

    >>
    >> >>>>>>well, it should read

    >>
    >> >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip
    >> >>>>>>$ set def [.ht_root]
    >> >>>>>>$ unzip "-v" [-]opensslwasdxxx

    >>
    >> >>> My question would be, 'Why the quotation of "-v"?' I can see why
    >> >>>"-V" might need quotation, but not "-v".

    >>
    >> >> Absent quotation marks, DCL will upcase letters.

    >>
    >> > The C-RTL complicates that by ensuring the command-line arguments passed
    >> > to main() have been lower-cased hence quoting preserves upper-case.

    >>
    >> Can't blame that in C's Unix heritage. On Unix it would have been left
    >> alone, as it should be!! :-)
    >>
    >> bill
    >>
    >> --
    >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    >> b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    >> University of Scranton |
    >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include - Hide quoted text -
    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    > unix should be sent up with the next space
    > shuttle and left there ... then it could watch
    > the hubble run by a real OS ... VMS ...


    Boob,

    There is no VMS ON the Hubble and even the ground systems dumped VMS in
    favor of Unix around 1994.

    And if you really want to see how well VMS did in the few jobs it had
    just search the web and read some of the documents!!

    From a "Lessons Learned" presentation:
    "And we should be rid of VMS by the end of the year..."

    Note the "rid of". Doesn't sound like like the comment of a
    satisfied customer to me.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  10. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article <1188301316.368006.186330@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.c om>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes:
    >
    > unix should be sent up with the next space
    > shuttle and left there ... then it could watch
    > the hubble run by a real OS ... VMS ...


    There is neither UNIX nor VMS on board HST.


  11. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article <5jihpnF3t06icU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >
    > There is no VMS ON the Hubble and even the ground systems dumped VMS in
    > favor of Unix around 1994.


    VMS is alive and well in ground support for HST. The customer has
    always been pleased with VMS, but did pay Gartner to tell them to
    get off of it. The UNIX based replacement plan had to be modified to
    be a UNIX and Windows replacement plan well before it was done due
    to cost, and the UNIX part since had to be replaced bacause Gartner
    didn't tell this customer that the UNIX vendor was going under much
    faster than VMS.


  12. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article ,
    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    > In article <5jihpnF3t06icU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>
    >> There is no VMS ON the Hubble and even the ground systems dumped VMS in
    >> favor of Unix around 1994.

    >
    > VMS is alive and well in ground support for HST. The customer has
    > always been pleased with VMS, but did pay Gartner to tell them to
    > get off of it. The UNIX based replacement plan had to be modified to
    > be a UNIX and Windows replacement plan well before it was done due
    > to cost, and the UNIX part since had to be replaced bacause Gartner
    > didn't tell this customer that the UNIX vendor was going under much
    > faster than VMS.


    Apparently, as of 31 March 2004, Preston Burch the HST Program Manager
    disagrees with you. :-) Can you point out any available documents to
    support the idea that The HST Project has gone back to running VMS?


    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  13. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article <5jimssF3rm2qcU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >
    > Apparently, as of 31 March 2004, Preston Burch the HST Program Manager
    > disagrees with you. :-) Can you point out any available documents to
    > support the idea that The HST Project has gone back to running VMS?


    I know Preston Burch. I read what he wrote. There are no conflicts
    between the technical content of his statements and mine.

    The replacement of the UNIX systems first used to replace old VAXen
    came up after 2004.


  14. Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book?

    In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:
    >In article <13d3pv3rp0rnd3c@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Daniel writes:
    >
    >> The C-RTL complicates that by ensuring the command-line arguments passed
    >> to main() have been lower-cased hence quoting preserves upper-case.

    >
    >Yuck !


    Not necessarily true any longer.
    With extended parsing set you can tell the C-RTL to preserve the case of
    arguments.

    From HELP on VMS 8.3

    "
    HELP SET PROC/PARSE

    ..
    ..
    ..

    The main differences for DCL when EXTENDED parse rules are in
    effect are:

    o Arguments to foreign commands are case preserved. You can get
    the command string by calling LIB$GET_FOREIGN.

    C/C++ programs that use the argc/argv mechanism will have
    unquoted arguments in lowercase unless the C Run-Time
    Library logical DECC$ARGV_PARSE_STYLE is set to ENABLE. When
    DECC$ARGV_PARSE_STYLE is enabled, case is preserved in command
    line arguments when the process is set up for extended DCL
    parsing using /PARSE_STYLE=EXTENDED.

    "


    David Webb
    Security team leader
    CCSS
    Middlesex University


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