DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist - VMS

This is a discussion on DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist - VMS ; "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message news:46CF2738.7010703@comcast.net... > Robert Jarratt wrote: >> "Bob Koehler" wrote in message >> news:ZqOiOHVCP9HG@eisner.encompasserve.org... >> >>>In article , David J Dachtera >>> writes: >>> >>>>Post the output of SHOW DEVICE E and maybe we can ...

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  1. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist


    "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message
    news:46CF2738.7010703@comcast.net...
    > Robert Jarratt wrote:
    >> "Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    >> news:ZqOiOHVCP9HG@eisner.encompasserve.org...
    >>
    >>>In article <46CCE489.38A33AB4@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera
    >>> writes:
    >>>
    >>>>Post the output of SHOW DEVICE E and maybe we can figure out where
    >>>>NETCONFIG

    >
    >>
    >> Is there a relationship between DECnet addresses and SCSSYSTEMID? If so
    >> what is it? Is there a simple explanation somewhere of Phase IV
    >> addresses?
    >>

    > SCSSYSTEMID:==AREA*1024+NODE
    > e.g. if your DECnet address 2.7 your SCSYSTEMID= 2*1024+7=2055
    >
    > There is nothing terribly complicated about DECnet Phase IV addresses.
    > They consist of an "Area" from 1-63 (or 64?? I'm too lazy to look it up!)
    > and a "Node" number from 1-??. Most organizations don't have DECnet
    > networks large enough to tax this addressing scheme; Digital was one of
    > the few organizations larger enough to have a problem. NASA was another.
    > Most of the world now uses TCP/IP which has become the de facto standard.
    >
    >


    So what happens if I use an SCSSYSTEMID of 1025 and then I set a DECnet
    address of 1.2 (say)?




  2. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist


    "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message
    news:46CF2738.7010703@comcast.net...
    > Robert Jarratt wrote:
    >> "Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    >> news:ZqOiOHVCP9HG@eisner.encompasserve.org...
    >>
    >>>In article <46CCE489.38A33AB4@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera
    >>> writes:
    >>>
    >>>>Post the output of SHOW DEVICE E and maybe we can figure out where
    >>>>NETCONFIG

    >
    >>
    >> Is there a relationship between DECnet addresses and SCSSYSTEMID? If so
    >> what is it? Is there a simple explanation somewhere of Phase IV
    >> addresses?
    >>

    > SCSSYSTEMID:==AREA*1024+NODE
    > e.g. if your DECnet address 2.7 your SCSYSTEMID= 2*1024+7=2055
    >
    > There is nothing terribly complicated about DECnet Phase IV addresses.
    > They consist of an "Area" from 1-63 (or 64?? I'm too lazy to look it up!)
    > and a "Node" number from 1-??. Most organizations don't have DECnet
    > networks large enough to tax this addressing scheme; Digital was one of
    > the few organizations larger enough to have a problem. NASA was another.
    > Most of the world now uses TCP/IP which has become the de facto standard.
    >
    >


    I think my posts are sometimes going missing, so again I am posting this
    again and apologise for any duplication:

    What happens if the SCSSYSTEMID and the DECnet address don't correspond
    according to the formula above?

    Thanks



  3. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist


    "Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    news:TSU5oNDbetbA@eisner.encompasserve.org...
    > In article , JF Mezei
    > writes:
    >> Bob Koehler wrote:
    >>> I think that's a bit stronger statement than reality. The only
    >>> thing DECnet Phase IV and MOP have in common is using NCP and the
    >>> NCP database as management tools. I can see why you might use
    >>> "control" in that context, but the DECnet stack does not control
    >>> the MOP stack.

    >>
    >> Out of curiosity, who registers with the ethernet driver the "if you see
    >> a MOP packet, send it to me" ?

    >
    > Yes, there is a MOP stack in VMS somewhere.
    >
    >> In an environment where you have LANCP, is it correct that while a boot
    >> node boots, it will not serve any MOP requests until LANACP has started ?

    >
    > Don't know, but I think so.
    >
    >> In an environment that predates LANCP, did LANACP exist ?

    >
    > I don't know where the code which is now in LANACP existed before,
    > it might actually have been stuck in the NETACP, but it's not really
    > the same stack as DECnet.
    >


    I think my posts are sometimes going missing, so again I am posting this
    again and apologise for any duplication:

    I have used DVSCONFIG to set up the firmware download to a DECserver, but
    the DECserver is failing to download. I am not entirely confident that the
    DECserver works (I can't get a console), what needs to be running on the VAX
    for the download to work. Here is the output from SH SYS:

    $ sh sys
    OpenVMS V7.3 on node VLC 24-AUG-2007 23:21:58.62 Uptime 1 00:15:09
    Pid Process Name State Pri I/O CPU Page flts
    Pages
    00000081 SWAPPER HIB 16 0 0 00:00:00.57 0
    0
    00000084 LANACP HIB 13 61 0 00:00:00.44 368
    796
    00000086 IPCACP HIB 10 7 0 00:00:00.07 99
    167
    00000087 ERRFMT HIB 8 652 0 00:00:02.77 145
    216
    00000089 OPCOM HIB 8 171 0 00:00:00.57 315
    154
    0000008A AUDIT_SERVER HIB 10 60 0 00:00:00.57 525
    679
    0000008B JOB_CONTROL HIB 10 38 0 00:00:00.17 153
    294
    0000008C SECURITY_SERVER HIB 10 26 0 00:00:28.14 1774
    1628
    0000008D NETACP HIB 10 267 0 00:00:01.42 209
    327
    0000008E EVL HIB 6 139 0 00:00:00.57 365
    582 N
    0000008F REMACP HIB 8 18 0 00:00:00.07 111
    69
    00000090 TCPIP$INETACP HIB 8 127 0 00:00:01.04 713
    810
    0000009D SYSTEM CUR 4 132 0 00:00:01.39 1030
    367



  4. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    Uusimäki wrote:
    > MOP DL requests are sent to a multicast address, which nodes with MOP
    > enabled will listen to. All the nodes with MOP gets the request and the
    > fastest one serves the request.
    >
    > Did this answer your question?



    Nop.

    At the VMS level, in an environment without LANCP database, which process:

    1- Tells the ethernet driver to forward received MOP protocol requests
    to whatever will handle them ?

    2- When a MOP request comes in, is a new process created, or ir there an
    existing process which does it ? (and if so, which process).


    With LANCP, it is obvious that LANACP is probably the one registering
    itself to the ethernet driver as the handler of packets with the MOP
    protocol bytes. But without LANCP, it has never been obvious to me
    which one it would have been (if it wasn't DECNET).

  5. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    Robert Jarratt wrote:
    > What happens if the SCSSYSTEMID and the DECnet address don't correspond
    > according to the formula above?



    When you configure DECNET, it will suggest the right etwork address if
    SCSSYSTEMID is already set. I suspect it will warn you or perhaps not
    allow you to make a mistake.

    If you subsequently reset SCSYSTEMID to something else, I suspect DECNET
    will fail to start.

  6. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    Robert Jarratt wrote:
    > "Uusimäki" wrote in message
    > news:46cf42fd$0$27847$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
    >
    >>JF Mezei wrote:
    >>
    >>>Bob Koehler wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I think that's a bit stronger statement than reality. The only
    >>>> thing DECnet Phase IV and MOP have in common is using NCP and the


    >
    >
    > I successfully ran DVSCONFIG.COM to configure the DECserver firmware
    > download, but the DECserver fail to download it. I am having other console
    > issues with the DECserver so I don't know if it works, but it may be that
    > there is something else that I have to start on the VMS side, what do I need
    > to check is running? This is VMS 7.3. And this is the output of SH SYS:
    >
    > Pid Process Name State Pri I/O CPU Page flts
    > Pages
    > 00000081 SWAPPER HIB 16 0 0 00:00:00.54 0
    > 0
    > 00000084 LANACP HIB 13 61 0 00:00:00.44 368
    > 796
    > 00000086 IPCACP HIB 10 7 0 00:00:00.07 99
    > 167
    > 00000087 ERRFMT HIB 8 612 0 00:00:02.58 145
    > 216
    > 00000089 OPCOM HIB 8 158 0 00:00:00.54 314
    > 153
    > 0000008A AUDIT_SERVER HIB 10 56 0 00:00:00.55 525
    > 679
    > 0000008B JOB_CONTROL HIB 10 33 0 00:00:00.17 153
    > 294
    > 0000008C SECURITY_SERVER HIB 10 22 0 00:00:26.22 757
    > 1014
    > 0000008D NETACP HIB 9 240 0 00:00:01.33 205
    > 323
    > 0000008E EVL HIB 6 139 0 00:00:00.57 365
    > 582 N
    > 0000008F REMACP HIB 8 18 0 00:00:00.07 111
    > 69
    > 00000090 TCPIP$INETACP HIB 8 113 0 00:00:00.98 713
    > 810
    > 00000095 SYSTEM LEF 9 4194 0 00:00:45.45 30170
    > 288
    > 00000096 _TNA5: CUR 4 541 0 00:00:06.78 4223
    > 340
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Rob
    >
    >


    At least some DECservers can boot using either MOP or BOOTP (TCP/IP
    protocol). It attempts to boot using whatever was successful the last
    time. If you have, as I once did, something that will answer a BOOTP
    request, and a MOP boot fails, you can get a situation where the
    DECserver switches over to BOOTP. The way out is to connect it to a VMS
    system with a crossover cable making sure that VMS cannot respond to a
    BOOTP request. When BOOTP fails it will try MOP which succeeds and
    resets things.



  7. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    Robert Jarratt wrote:
    > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message
    > news:46CF2738.7010703@comcast.net...
    >
    >>Robert Jarratt wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    >>>news:ZqOiOHVCP9HG@eisner.encompasserve.org...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>In article <46CCE489.38A33AB4@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera
    >>>> writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Post the output of SHOW DEVICE E and maybe we can figure out where
    >>>>>NETCONFIG
    >>>>

    >>
    >>
    >>>Is there a relationship between DECnet addresses and SCSSYSTEMID? If so
    >>>what is it? Is there a simple explanation somewhere of Phase IV
    >>>addresses?
    >>>

    >>
    >>SCSSYSTEMID:==AREA*1024+NODE
    >>e.g. if your DECnet address 2.7 your SCSYSTEMID= 2*1024+7=2055
    >>
    >>There is nothing terribly complicated about DECnet Phase IV addresses.
    >>They consist of an "Area" from 1-63 (or 64?? I'm too lazy to look it up!)
    >>and a "Node" number from 1-??. Most organizations don't have DECnet
    >>networks large enough to tax this addressing scheme; Digital was one of
    >>the few organizations larger enough to have a problem. NASA was another.
    >>Most of the world now uses TCP/IP which has become the de facto standard.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > So what happens if I use an SCSSYSTEMID of 1025 and then I set a DECnet
    > address of 1.2 (say)?
    >
    >
    >


    I couldn't say, I never tried it! You really have to work at it to
    screw it up. If you use the configuration (.COM) files provided, that
    stuff all gets set up for you when you configure DECnet.

    FWIW, the 1-?? in my original response should be something like 1-1023
    or 1-1024. (I'm still too lazy to look it up!)


  8. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    > Robert Jarratt wrote:
    >
    >> "Uusimäki" wrote in message
    >> news:46cf42fd$0$27847$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
    >>
    >>> JF Mezei wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Bob Koehler wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I think that's a bit stronger statement than reality. The only
    >>>>> thing DECnet Phase IV and MOP have in common is using NCP and the

    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> I successfully ran DVSCONFIG.COM to configure the DECserver firmware
    >> download, but the DECserver fail to download it. I am having other
    >> console issues with the DECserver so I don't know if it works, but it
    >> may be that there is something else that I have to start on the VMS
    >> side, what do I need to check is running? This is VMS 7.3. And this is
    >> the output of SH SYS:
    >>
    >> Pid Process Name State Pri I/O CPU Page flts
    >> Pages
    >> 00000081 SWAPPER HIB 16 0 0 00:00:00.54 0 0
    >> 00000084 LANACP HIB 13 61 0 00:00:00.44 368
    >> 796
    >> 00000086 IPCACP HIB 10 7 0 00:00:00.07 99
    >> 167
    >> 00000087 ERRFMT HIB 8 612 0 00:00:02.58 145
    >> 216
    >> 00000089 OPCOM HIB 8 158 0 00:00:00.54 314
    >> 153
    >> 0000008A AUDIT_SERVER HIB 10 56 0 00:00:00.55 525
    >> 679
    >> 0000008B JOB_CONTROL HIB 10 33 0 00:00:00.17 153
    >> 294
    >> 0000008C SECURITY_SERVER HIB 10 22 0 00:00:26.22 757
    >> 1014
    >> 0000008D NETACP HIB 9 240 0 00:00:01.33 205
    >> 323
    >> 0000008E EVL HIB 6 139 0 00:00:00.57 365
    >> 582 N
    >> 0000008F REMACP HIB 8 18 0 00:00:00.07 111 69
    >> 00000090 TCPIP$INETACP HIB 8 113 0 00:00:00.98 713
    >> 810
    >> 00000095 SYSTEM LEF 9 4194 0 00:00:45.45 30170
    >> 288
    >> 00000096 _TNA5: CUR 4 541 0 00:00:06.78 4223
    >> 340
    >>
    >> Thanks
    >>
    >> Rob
    >>

    >
    > At least some DECservers can boot using either MOP or BOOTP (TCP/IP
    > protocol). It attempts to boot using whatever was successful the last
    > time. If you have, as I once did, something that will answer a BOOTP
    > request, and a MOP boot fails, you can get a situation where the
    > DECserver switches over to BOOTP. The way out is to connect it to a VMS
    > system with a crossover cable making sure that VMS cannot respond to a
    > BOOTP request. When BOOTP fails it will try MOP which succeeds and
    > resets things.


    There is a bit of magic that will cause a DECServer to reset to its
    factory default configuration. The exact sequence varies with model,
    but for some, I think you hold down the reset button while it's
    powering up.

    Does your DECServer have a 7-segment LED display? If so, what is it
    doing? (IIRC, for most models, it counts down from about 8 to about
    3 while it selftests, and then waits for a download.)

    Do you have a terminal or emulator you can connect to port 1? Does
    it print anything? (8 bit, no parity, 9600 baud, IIRC.)

    Do you see any OPCOM messages on the VMS system when you power up
    the DECServer? If the load server (of whatever ilk, DECnet MOP,
    LANACP MOP, BOOTP) is running, it should notice the download
    request and log an OPCOM message, and then a 2nd message when it
    succeeds or fails or defers to another load host.

    If there are no OPCOM messages, two possibilities: 1) If this is
    an AUI/Thin-wire DECServer, is the selector switch in the right
    position. (Twisted-pair DEC servers shouldn't have this issue :-)
    2) If the DECServer doesn't get a response to its load request,
    it will back off for a while and try again. Initially the back off
    is a minute or two, but I think it can grow to longer than you're
    probably willing to wait... like hours. Power-cycling should
    reset this.


    --
    John Santos
    Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
    781-861-0670 ext 539

  9. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    On 25 Aug, 02:05, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:
    > At least some DECservers can boot using either MOP or BOOTP (TCP/IP
    > protocol).


    BOOTP uses UDP/IP not TCP/IP.

    Alex



  10. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    John Santos wrote:
    > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >
    >> Robert Jarratt wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Uusimäki" wrote in message
    >>> news:46cf42fd$0$27847$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
    >>>
    >>>> JF Mezei wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Bob Koehler wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I think that's a bit stronger statement than reality. The only
    >>>>>> thing DECnet Phase IV and MOP have in common is using NCP and the
    >>>>>

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I successfully ran DVSCONFIG.COM to configure the DECserver firmware
    >>> download, but the DECserver fail to download it. I am having other
    >>> console issues with the DECserver so I don't know if it works, but it
    >>> may be that there is something else that I have to start on the VMS
    >>> side, what do I need to check is running? This is VMS 7.3. And this
    >>> is the output of SH SYS:
    >>>
    >>> Pid Process Name State Pri I/O CPU Page
    >>> flts Pages
    >>> 00000081 SWAPPER HIB 16 0 0 00:00:00.54 0 0
    >>> 00000084 LANACP HIB 13 61 0 00:00:00.44
    >>> 368 796
    >>> 00000086 IPCACP HIB 10 7 0 00:00:00.07
    >>> 99 167
    >>> 00000087 ERRFMT HIB 8 612 0 00:00:02.58
    >>> 145 216
    >>> 00000089 OPCOM HIB 8 158 0 00:00:00.54
    >>> 314 153
    >>> 0000008A AUDIT_SERVER HIB 10 56 0 00:00:00.55
    >>> 525 679
    >>> 0000008B JOB_CONTROL HIB 10 33 0 00:00:00.17
    >>> 153 294
    >>> 0000008C SECURITY_SERVER HIB 10 22 0 00:00:26.22
    >>> 757 1014
    >>> 0000008D NETACP HIB 9 240 0 00:00:01.33
    >>> 205 323
    >>> 0000008E EVL HIB 6 139 0 00:00:00.57
    >>> 365 582 N
    >>> 0000008F REMACP HIB 8 18 0 00:00:00.07
    >>> 111 69
    >>> 00000090 TCPIP$INETACP HIB 8 113 0 00:00:00.98
    >>> 713 810
    >>> 00000095 SYSTEM LEF 9 4194 0 00:00:45.45
    >>> 30170 288
    >>> 00000096 _TNA5: CUR 4 541 0 00:00:06.78
    >>> 4223 340
    >>>
    >>> Thanks
    >>>
    >>> Rob
    >>>

    >>
    >> At least some DECservers can boot using either MOP or BOOTP (TCP/IP
    >> protocol). It attempts to boot using whatever was successful the last
    >> time. If you have, as I once did, something that will answer a BOOTP
    >> request, and a MOP boot fails, you can get a situation where the
    >> DECserver switches over to BOOTP. The way out is to connect it to a
    >> VMS system with a crossover cable making sure that VMS cannot respond
    >> to a BOOTP request. When BOOTP fails it will try MOP which succeeds
    >> and resets things.

    >
    >
    > There is a bit of magic that will cause a DECServer to reset to its
    > factory default configuration. The exact sequence varies with model,
    > but for some, I think you hold down the reset button while it's
    > powering up.
    >


    That's right! The problem with this approach is that it wipes your
    configuration. If you don't want to have to issue 8, or 16, DEFINE/SET
    PORT commands, an alternative to resetting is preferable!


  11. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    AlexNOSPAMDaniels@themail.co.uk wrote:
    > On 25 Aug, 02:05, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:
    >
    >>At least some DECservers can boot using either MOP or BOOTP (TCP/IP
    >>protocol).

    >
    >
    > BOOTP uses UDP/IP not TCP/IP.
    >
    > Alex
    >
    >


    Sorry about that. I just naturally use "TCP/IP" to refer to the whole
    protocol suite. And if both ends speak BOOTP, I couldn't care less
    about the details.


  12. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist


    "John Santos" wrote in message
    news:M_Nzi.7635$Bv1.4100@trnddc06...
    >> At least some DECservers can boot using either MOP or BOOTP (TCP/IP
    >> protocol). It attempts to boot using whatever was successful the last
    >> time. If you have, as I once did, something that will answer a BOOTP
    >> request, and a MOP boot fails, you can get a situation where the
    >> DECserver switches over to BOOTP. The way out is to connect it to a VMS
    >> system with a crossover cable making sure that VMS cannot respond to a
    >> BOOTP request. When BOOTP fails it will try MOP which succeeds and
    >> resets things.


    I have not enabled BOOTP, unless it is enabled by default, so this should
    not apply.

    >
    > There is a bit of magic that will cause a DECServer to reset to its
    > factory default configuration. The exact sequence varies with model,
    > but for some, I think you hold down the reset button while it's
    > powering up.


    Holding down the reset switch during power up fixed my first problem, which
    was that it printed garbage on the console. I suspect that line was not set
    to 9600,N,8,1. Now I can see the console, but it just tells me that there is
    a load failure due to a timeout.

    >
    > Does your DECServer have a 7-segment LED display? If so, what is it
    > doing? (IIRC, for most models, it counts down from about 8 to about
    > 3 while it selftests, and then waits for a download.)
    >
    > Do you have a terminal or emulator you can connect to port 1? Does
    > it print anything? (8 bit, no parity, 9600 baud, IIRC.)
    >
    > Do you see any OPCOM messages on the VMS system when you power up
    > the DECServer? If the load server (of whatever ilk, DECnet MOP,
    > LANACP MOP, BOOTP) is running, it should notice the download
    > request and log an OPCOM message, and then a 2nd message when it
    > succeeds or fails or defers to another load host.
    >


    No, I do not see any OPCOM messages on the console.

    > If there are no OPCOM messages, two possibilities: 1) If this is
    > an AUI/Thin-wire DECServer, is the selector switch in the right
    > position. (Twisted-pair DEC servers shouldn't have this issue :-)
    > 2) If the DECServer doesn't get a response to its load request,
    > it will back off for a while and try again. Initially the back off
    > is a minute or two, but I think it can grow to longer than you're
    > probably willing to wait... like hours. Power-cycling should
    > reset this.
    >


    This is an AUI box, but there is no selector switch I can see. When the
    diagnostic lights on the DECserver indicate network activity I can see the
    lights on the switch flash, so it is doing something and I think it is
    getting to the LAN.

    Thanks

    Rob



  13. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    In article , "Robert Jarratt" writes:
    >
    > I successfully ran DVSCONFIG.COM to configure the DECserver firmware
    > download, but the DECserver fail to download it. I am having other console
    > issues with the DECserver so I don't know if it works, but it may be that
    > there is something else that I have to start on the VMS side, what do I need
    > to check is running? This is VMS 7.3. And this is the output of SH SYS:


    From following this thread, I think you now have DECnet Phase IV up and
    have configured the MOP protocol using DSVCONFIG. There are two things
    you can look for:

    In NCP, verify that the ethernet circuit shows "service =
    enabled", if not the define and set it to enabled.

    The default OPCOM settings are pretty noisy, but good for
    debugging this issue. Enable an operator's terminal and/or look
    in operator.log .

    (Those of us using DECnet Phase V have entirely different default
    noise going into OPCOM.)


  14. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    In article , "Robert Jarratt" writes:
    >
    > So what happens if I use an SCSSYSTEMID of 1025 and then I set a DECnet
    > address of 1.2 (say)?


    If you have clustering on then the hardware address set during boot
    will prevent DECnet from starting. If you don't have clustering on
    the hardware address might not be changed before DECnet gets to it, I
    don't recall ever trying that.


  15. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist


    "Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    news:CAR7675fmhCF@eisner.encompasserve.org...
    > In article , "Robert Jarratt"
    > writes:
    >>
    >> I successfully ran DVSCONFIG.COM to configure the DECserver firmware
    >> download, but the DECserver fail to download it. I am having other
    >> console
    >> issues with the DECserver so I don't know if it works, but it may be that
    >> there is something else that I have to start on the VMS side, what do I
    >> need
    >> to check is running? This is VMS 7.3. And this is the output of SH SYS:

    >
    > From following this thread, I think you now have DECnet Phase IV up and
    > have configured the MOP protocol using DSVCONFIG. There are two things
    > you can look for:
    >
    > In NCP, verify that the ethernet circuit shows "service =
    > enabled", if not the define and set it to enabled.
    >
    > The default OPCOM settings are pretty noisy, but good for
    > debugging this issue. Enable an operator's terminal and/or look
    > in operator.log .
    >
    > (Those of us using DECnet Phase V have entirely different default
    > noise going into OPCOM.)
    >


    I made a lot of progress thanks to this posting. I thought that all OPCOM
    messages were already going to the console, but they weren't. It turned out
    that after running DSVCONFIG.COM I needed to copy the SYS from
    SYS$COMMON:[DECSERVER] to SYS$COMMON:[MOM$SYSTEM]. I am not clear why
    DSVCONFIG did not copy it there for me or point MOP to the right location.

    Thanks

    Rob



  16. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    In article , "Robert Jarratt" writes:
    >
    > I made a lot of progress thanks to this posting. I thought that all OPCOM
    > messages were already going to the console, but they weren't. It turned out
    > that after running DSVCONFIG.COM I needed to copy the SYS from
    > SYS$COMMON:[DECSERVER] to SYS$COMMON:[MOM$SYSTEM]. I am not clear why
    > DSVCONFIG did not copy it there for me or point MOP to the right location.


    I think DSVCONFIG predates MOM$SYSTEM. But I would think that it
    would have put in the database the directory that it used.


  17. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    Robert Jarratt wrote:
    >
    > I made a lot of progress thanks to this posting. I thought that all OPCOM
    > messages were already going to the console, but they weren't. It turned out
    > that after running DSVCONFIG.COM I needed to copy the SYS from
    > SYS$COMMON:[DECSERVER] to SYS$COMMON:[MOM$SYSTEM]. I am not clear why
    > DSVCONFIG did not copy it there for me or point MOP to the right location.


    That is because it was expecting MOM$LOAD to be a search list that
    included SYS$COMMON:[DECSERVER], MOM$SYSTEM:.

    I do not remember if the installation of the package that installed the
    DSVCONFIG command file did it automatically or if it was a post
    installation step.


    On Phase IV, I stopped running DSVCONFIG.COM a long time ago. It was
    faster to put together a DCL script that did the important part. That
    was putting in the name to I.P. address mapping in the DECNET tables.

    After the service is enabled for the ethernet circuit, and the DECServer
    load image is put where MOM$LOAD will find it, your basically done.


    None of the information is actually used in a DECServer downloading its
    load image.

    The I.P. address to name mapping is used for two purposes only:

    1. It gives the name of the DECserver that is doing the download on the
    opcom messages. This is why I used the script to make sure that the
    DECNET tables were up to date on all of the systems. When I heard the
    opcom beeps, I could look at any console to see which DECServer rebooted.

    2. It allows TSM and manual commands to connect to the command interface
    of the terminal server by specifying the node name instead of the I.P.
    address.

    If you are using TSM, then you will probably want the scripts I wrote
    that are in the Freeware 5.0 distribution in the tsm_tools directory.


    Decservers will load their boot image from any host on the network that
    answers the MOP request by claiming that it has a load filename of the
    name requested by the DECServer.

    Nothing that DSVCONFIG.COM does will affect this. Which means on a
    large network with multiple VMS administrators, it is very possible that
    there will be out of date DecServer load images, and you could find
    sometimes that you are running an out of date version. And at the site
    I was at, that could really mess up the production printers.

    Generally I made a copy of the current download image, giving it a site
    specific name.

    Then I changed the DECserver to request that specific image when it
    boots. This was the only way that I could guarantee that my DECservers
    were loaded with the correct image.

    In the NCP database, you can put almost any text for the download
    filename of a DECserver, as it is totally ignored by everything.

    As I recall, TSM also requested the name of the load image for it's
    database of managing the server. It also ignores this information,
    other than possibly putting it in the DECNET database where it is
    ignored. Only the NOVRAM in the DECserver matters.

    -John
    wb8tyw@qsl.network
    Personal Opinion Only

  18. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    Robert Jarratt wrote:
    > "John Santos" wrote in message
    > news:M_Nzi.7635$Bv1.4100@trnddc06...
    >
    >>>At least some DECservers can boot using either MOP or BOOTP (TCP/IP
    >>>protocol). It attempts to boot using whatever was successful the last
    >>>time. If you have, as I once did, something that will answer a BOOTP
    >>>request, and a MOP boot fails, you can get a situation where the
    >>>DECserver switches over to BOOTP. The way out is to connect it to a VMS
    >>>system with a crossover cable making sure that VMS cannot respond to a
    >>>BOOTP request. When BOOTP fails it will try MOP which succeeds and
    >>>resets things.

    >
    >
    > I have not enabled BOOTP, unless it is enabled by default, so this should
    > not apply.
    >
    >
    >>There is a bit of magic that will cause a DECServer to reset to its
    >>factory default configuration. The exact sequence varies with model,
    >>but for some, I think you hold down the reset button while it's
    >>powering up.

    >
    >
    > Holding down the reset switch during power up fixed my first problem, which
    > was that it printed garbage on the console. I suspect that line was not set
    > to 9600,N,8,1. Now I can see the console, but it just tells me that there is
    > a load failure due to a timeout.
    >
    >
    >>Does your DECServer have a 7-segment LED display? If so, what is it
    >>doing? (IIRC, for most models, it counts down from about 8 to about
    >>3 while it selftests, and then waits for a download.)
    >>
    >>Do you have a terminal or emulator you can connect to port 1? Does
    >>it print anything? (8 bit, no parity, 9600 baud, IIRC.)
    >>
    >>Do you see any OPCOM messages on the VMS system when you power up
    >>the DECServer? If the load server (of whatever ilk, DECnet MOP,
    >>LANACP MOP, BOOTP) is running, it should notice the download
    >>request and log an OPCOM message, and then a 2nd message when it
    >>succeeds or fails or defers to another load host.
    >>

    >
    >
    > No, I do not see any OPCOM messages on the console.
    >
    >
    >>If there are no OPCOM messages, two possibilities: 1) If this is
    >>an AUI/Thin-wire DECServer, is the selector switch in the right
    >>position. (Twisted-pair DEC servers shouldn't have this issue :-)
    >>2) If the DECServer doesn't get a response to its load request,
    >>it will back off for a while and try again. Initially the back off
    >>is a minute or two, but I think it can grow to longer than you're
    >>probably willing to wait... like hours. Power-cycling should
    >>reset this.
    >>

    >
    >
    > This is an AUI box, but there is no selector switch I can see. When the
    > diagnostic lights on the DECserver indicate network activity I can see the
    > lights on the switch flash, so it is doing something and I think it is
    > getting to the LAN.
    >


    Okay, if it really is making boot requests, then lack of OPCOM messages
    means the VMS system isn't seeing them. If LANACP or DECNET MOP handler
    (forget what process/image this is) is configured incorrectly, then
    it would see MOP download requests from an unknown system and would log
    it to OPCOM, so it must either not be running or must not be listening
    on the correct ethernet adapter. Do you have more than one ethernet NIC?
    Are you running LANACP or DECnet? DECnet 4 or 5?

    If LANACP, post the output of LANCP's SHOW MOPDLL, SHOW DEVICE/CHAR,
    SHOW NODE/ALL and SHOW CONFIG commands

    For DECnet-5, $ mcr ncl show mop circuit * all

    For DECnet-4, I forget the commands.

    > Thanks
    >
    > Rob
    >
    >



    --
    John Santos
    Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
    781-861-0670 ext 539

  19. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    Maybe a little late to join the fray, but you might find this useful for
    some of the background:
    http://www.downloads.xdelta.co.uk/vm...%20feb2005.pdf -
    it's an article I wrote for the Technical Journal a while back.

    I'd recommend the effort to get to grips with Phase V as it does do a better
    job, especially in multiple LAN (or VLAN) networks, for example you get load
    balancing on all paths for the price of an end-system license. Phase V can
    also give you a lot more useful information when trying to figure out what's
    happening.

    Have fun!
    -
    Cheers, Colin.
    Legacy = Stuff that works properly!



  20. Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist

    In article <6qaCi.6302$c_1.926@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, "Colin Butcher" writes:

    > I'd recommend the effort to get to grips with Phase V as it does do a better
    > job, especially in multiple LAN (or VLAN) networks,


    But a worse job on Security, without the SET EXECUTOR DEFAULT ACCESS NONE
    capability of Phase IV. That is what is required by NIST SP 800-53
    SC-7 Boundary Protection Control Enhancement (5) required for Moderate
    and High (FIPS-199) impact systems:

    (5) The information system denies network traffic by default
    and allows network traffic by exception (i.e., deny all,
    permit by exception).

    And the DECUS (sic) Security SIG made a formal request of DEC (sic) to
    fix that before Phase V was released, many years before NIST SP 800-53
    was released.

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