Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion - VMS ; >Certainly not. Rdb is a database management system, not a file system. Eh? When I create an indexed file in COBOL, is it using Rdb? If so, it quacks a lot like a filesystem to me. > BTW: DB2 has ...

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Thread: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion

  1. Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion


    >Certainly not. Rdb is a database management system, not a file system.


    Eh? When I create an indexed file in COBOL, is it using Rdb? If so, it quacks a lot like a filesystem to me.

    > BTW: DB2 has had federated databases for more than a decade, well before =
    > Oracle.


    >Your term "federated database" is not clear, but when you say "well
    >before Oracle" you must be talking about "Classic" Oracle, which
    >nobody here has proposed as an example of database security.


    We were not talking database security there - your clip did not make thatclear. We were talking about distributed database systems.

    A federated database is a "cluster" of two or more geographically remote databases where the data has been segregated geographically or otherwise to facilitate access.

    For example, you might have a VENDOR_MASTER_TABLE that is federated over 50 machines, all of which have seamless access to the entire data set, but users in Germany retrieve German users from a local server, etc.


    > RDB is file based, I'm not sure how it can do that, especially over
    > slower global WAN connections.


    >Rdb is a relational database that had the security features we are
    >discussing well before it was purchased from Digital by Oracle, and
    >that was quite a bit more than 10 years ago.


    Then I simply don't know what Rdb is. Guess that makes us even, since youdon't know what Federated databases are.

    -Paul



  2. Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion

    In article , "Paul Raulerson" writes:
    > ----=_vm_0011_W872902425_23944_1186687608
    > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
    > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


    Stop doing that. In particular, stop using "quoted printable".
    Learn where the carriage return is on your keyboard. Use it every
    72 characters or so.

    >>Certainly not. Rdb is a database management system, not a file system.

    >
    > Eh? When I create an indexed file in COBOL, is it using Rdb?


    No it is not. It is using RMS.

    They both start with R, but so does ROI.

    >> BTW: DB2 has had federated databases for more than a decade, well befor=

    > e =3D
    >> Oracle.

    >
    >>Your term "federated database" is not clear, but when you say "well
    >>before Oracle" you must be talking about "Classic" Oracle, which
    >>nobody here has proposed as an example of database security.

    >
    > We were not talking database security there - your clip did not make that=
    > clear. We were talking about distributed database systems.
    >
    > A federated database is a "cluster" of two or more geographically remote =
    > databases where the data has been segregated geographically or otherwise =
    > to facilitate access.


    In Rdb/VMS terminology, that would be using Two Phase Commit, which
    also came in before DEC sold Rdb to Oracle.

    >> RDB is file based, I'm not sure how it can do that, especially over
    >> slower global WAN connections.

    >
    >>Rdb is a relational database that had the security features we are
    >>discussing well before it was purchased from Digital by Oracle, and
    >>that was quite a bit more than 10 years ago.

    >
    > Then I simply don't know what Rdb is. Guess that makes us even, since you=
    > don't know what Federated databases are.


    The difference is that I did not pretend I knew what Federated databases
    meant (although it turns out from your explanation, the concept is one
    that is familiar to me in VMS terms).

  3. Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion

    In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:
    >
    >
    >In article , "Paul Raulerson" writes:
    >> ----=_vm_0011_W872902425_23944_1186687608
    >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
    >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    >
    >Stop doing that. In particular, stop using "quoted printable".
    >Learn where the carriage return is on your keyboard. Use it every
    >72 characters or so.
    >
    >>>Certainly not. Rdb is a database management system, not a file system.

    >>
    >> Eh? When I create an indexed file in COBOL, is it using Rdb?

    >
    >No it is not. It is using RMS.
    >
    >They both start with R, but so does ROI.


    Troll has an "R" in it!

    Trolls are like the creatures in the movie "gremlins"; Troll get nasty
    too when you feed them.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  4. Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion

    In article , "Paul Raulerson" writes:
    >
    > Eh? When I create an indexed file in COBOL, is it using Rdb? If so, it qu=
    > acks a lot like a filesystem to me.


    You can certainly use RDB from Cobol, but indexed files are built
    into thefile system and do not need RDB.


  5. Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion

    >
    > A federated database is a "cluster" of two or more geographically remote databases where the data has been segregated geographically or otherwise to facilitate access.
    >
    > For example, you might have a VENDOR_MASTER_TABLE that is federated over 50 machines, all of which have seamless access to the entire data set, but users in Germany retrieve German users from a local server, etc.
    >


    He means "replicated". The poor mans drunken excuse for fault
    tollerance. In order to hide the fact the database has no fault
    tolerance, they now "partially replicate" the data multiple times.
    This new poor mans excuse is called "federated" because even MBA's
    finally figured out data replication is only as good as the last snap,
    no matter how often and how small you make those snaps.


  6. Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion

    yyyc186 writes:

    >> A federated database is a "cluster" of two or more geographically
    >> remote databases where the data has been segregated geographically
    >> or otherwise to facilitate access.
    >> For example, you might have a VENDOR_MASTER_TABLE that is federated
    >> over 50 machines, all of which have seamless access to the entire
    >> data set, but users in Germany retrieve German users from a local
    >> server, etc.
    >>

    >
    > He means "replicated". The poor mans drunken excuse for fault
    > tollerance. In order to hide the fact the database has no fault
    > tolerance, they now "partially replicate" the data multiple times.
    > This new poor mans excuse is called "federated" because even MBA's
    > finally figured out data replication is only as good as the last snap,
    > no matter how often and how small you make those snaps.


    I think you have misunderstood the original statement: in a federated
    database, you have a (disjunct) distribution of data over a DBMS
    cluster (the analogon would be clustered indices inside the DBMS).


    Sebastian

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