RE: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever? - VMS

This is a discussion on RE: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever? - VMS ; > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company] > Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever? > > Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come ...

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Thread: RE: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

  1. RE: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
    > Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
    > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
    >
    > Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
    > almost
    > a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
    > news.individual.net
    > or please stop posting. Most annoying.
    >
    > On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
    > wrote:
    >


    Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?

    Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issueswith the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.

    Regards


    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-592-4660
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.




  2. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 18:16:16 -0700, Main, Kerry wrote:

    >
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
    >> Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
    >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    >> Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
    >>
    >> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
    >> almost
    >> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
    >> news.individual.net
    >> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
    >>
    >> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
    >> wrote:
    >>

    >
    > Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
    >
    > Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have
    > issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with
    > your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.


    It is because you post using info-vax that your responses are out of order,
    in the sense that at least my news reader doesnt recognize and stack it in
    the
    appropriate tree, as a result it is difficult to figure to whom you are
    responding, which in my case generally means that I simply delete your
    posts
    without reading them, not because I don't value your contributions, but I
    have too
    much to do and can't be bothered to figure out to whom you are repsonding.


    >
    > Regards
    >
    >
    > Kerry Main
    > Senior Consultant
    > HP Services Canada
    > Voice: 613-592-4660
    > Fax: 613-591-4477
    > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    > (remove the DOT's and AT)
    >
    > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
    >
    >
    >




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  3. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    Main, Kerry wrote:
    > Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
    >
    > Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.



    Mr Main,

    This particular post was sent as:
    Organization: Info-VAX<==>comp.os.vms Gateway
    X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List
    Lines: 38
    Content-Language: en-US
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

    from you. Which is acceptable. However, you really need to set your
    software to wrap lines (CR-LF at the end of each lines). Your software
    currently inserts CR-LF only at the end of each paragraph.

    Many newsreaders will wrap poorly formatted text, reducing the impact on
    the reader, but it is still a problem.

    It also doesn't send the right image when you , an HP employee, can't
    seem to figure out how to send standard-abiding messages.

    Now, HP, being a subsidiary of Microsoft, probably doesn't mind when its
    employees send messages in Microsoft-standard format since it helps push
    the internet towards Microsoft standards. But in a VMS group, you find
    people who do not support Microsoft standards and want to see people
    adhere to established real internet standards (which Microsoft doesn't
    adhere to).

  4. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    "Main, Kerry" wrote:
    >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
    > > Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
    > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > > Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
    > >
    > > Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
    > > almost
    > > a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
    > > news.individual.net
    > > or please stop posting. Most annoying.
    > >
    > > On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
    > > wrote:
    > >

    >
    > Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
    >
    > Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
    >


    Notice the quote indicators. There's only one at the beginning of the sentence
    above; the rest of the lines break where Netscape thought they should (as I'm
    seeing it, writing this reply), but came into the news-server as one long line.

    So, yes - that is how the Usenet world is seeing your posts.

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

  5. RE: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    In article , "Main, Kerry" writes:
    >
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
    >> Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
    >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    >> Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
    >>
    >> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
    >> almost
    >> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
    >> news.individual.net
    >> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
    >>
    >> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
    >> wrote:
    >>

    >
    > Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?


    Yes, top posting is bad form. But responses should be inserted
    just after the point to which they respond, and extraneous matter
    (that to which no response is being made) should be deleted.

    Responders should not worry about preserving a record of what was
    said before - we all have that. Just enough to provide context.

  6. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    On 08/01/07 20:16, Main, Kerry wrote:
    >> -----Original Message----- From: Tom Linden
    >> [mailto:tom@kednos.company] Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM To:
    >> Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe:
    >> Stay on Alpha forever?
    >>
    >> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of
    >> order, almost a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try
    >> Opera, use news.individual.net or please stop posting. Most
    >> annoying.
    >>
    >> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
    >> wrote:
    >>

    >
    > Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
    >
    > Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not
    > have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are
    > having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing
    > replies.


    Outlook breaks threading and doesn't wrap it's lines. Most aggrivating.


    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  7. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    David J Dachtera writes:

    >"Main, Kerry" wrote:
    >>
    >> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
    >>
    >> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
    >>


    >Notice the quote indicators. There's only one at the beginning of the sentence
    >above; the rest of the lines break where Netscape thought they should (as I'm
    >seeing it, writing this reply), but came into the news-server as one long line.


    >So, yes - that is how the Usenet world is seeing your posts.


    Kerry's posts are "quoted-printable" so they still appear as the Microsoft
    standard superlong line if you use a news reader that supports it. If
    yours doesn't, the lines are broken up oddly with strange equal signs
    added, like this:

    (quote)
    Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues=
    with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your clie=
    nt or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
    (end quote)

    Kerry's posts don't have a References: header, which is very bad and
    breaks threading, and this is the cause of the initial complaint.
    I don't know if this is solvable using Info-VAX.

    If you have to use Outhouse, I think there is a "post as straight text"
    setting somewhere.

  8. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 18:16:16 -0700, Main, Kerry wrote:

    >
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
    >> Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
    >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    >> Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
    >>
    >> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
    >> almost
    >> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
    >> news.individual.net
    >> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
    >>
    >> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
    >> wrote:
    >>

    >
    > Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
    >
    > Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have
    > issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with
    > your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.


    Well, if you consider it, I wasn't top-posting, since I created a new
    subject.
    It was my error to have included superfluos text from the previous post.

    This group has a penchant for meandering without changing the subject, and
    I
    find it convenient with my newsreader, Opera, to wipe out entire trees, for
    subjects which I have no interest in. But when you post through Info-VAX
    it
    doesn't appear as a descendant but as a new root. Maybe other newsreaders
    don't
    have this capability, I don't know.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    >
    > Kerry Main
    > Senior Consultant
    > HP Services Canada
    > Voice: 613-592-4660
    > Fax: 613-591-4477
    > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    > (remove the DOT's and AT)
    >
    > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
    >
    >
    >




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  9. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    Michael Moroney wrote:
    > David J Dachtera writes:
    >
    >
    >>"Main, Kerry" wrote:
    >>
    >>>Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
    >>>
    >>>Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
    >>>

    >>

    >
    >>Notice the quote indicators. There's only one at the beginning of the sentence
    >>above; the rest of the lines break where Netscape thought they should (as I'm
    >>seeing it, writing this reply), but came into the news-server as one long line.

    >
    >
    >>So, yes - that is how the Usenet world is seeing your posts.

    >
    >
    > Kerry's posts are "quoted-printable" so they still appear as the Microsoft
    > standard superlong line if you use a news reader that supports it. If
    > yours doesn't, the lines are broken up oddly with strange equal signs
    > added, like this:
    >
    > (quote)
    > Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues=
    > with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your clie=
    > nt or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
    > (end quote)
    >
    > Kerry's posts don't have a References: header, which is very bad and
    > breaks threading, and this is the cause of the initial complaint.
    > I don't know if this is solvable using Info-VAX.
    >
    > If you have to use Outhouse, I think there is a "post as straight text"
    > setting somewhere.


    I'm using the Netscape Mail/News client under Windows/XP and I've never
    noticed any problems with Kerry's posts!


  10. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    In article ,
    "Main, Kerry" writes:
    >
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: Tom Linden
    >> Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
    >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    >> Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
    >>
    >> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
    >> almost
    >> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
    >> news.individual.net
    >> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
    >>
    >> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
    >> wrote:
    >>

    >
    > Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?


    Sometimes that's where the answer belongs. Of course you could then cut
    the majority of the rest if it is irrelevant.

    >
    > Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues=
    > with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your clie=
    > nt or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.


    Well, here's another vote along with Tom. I especially don't like the
    fact that your replies take an address from the headefrs and create a
    "mailto:" from it even when it is not a valid email address and just
    gives the spammers more machines thay can annoy. You really shold try
    to find a real news reader and a real news server to read from. Tom
    mentioned news.individual.net. I use it and second that suggestion.
    The cost is trivial and the service excellent.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  11. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 06:06:05 -0700, Richard B. Gilbert
    wrote:

    > I'm using the Netscape Mail/News client under Windows/XP and I've never
    > noticed any problems with Kerry's posts!
    >


    Are they properly threaded? Maybe _I_ need to change newsreader.

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  12. Re: Kerry needs a news reader (was: Stay on Alpha forever?)

    [subject line corrected]

    On 2007-08-02 03:16, "Main, Kerry" wrote:

    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
    >> [...]
    >>
    >> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
    >> almost
    >> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
    >> news.individual.net
    >> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
    >>
    >> [...]

    >
    > Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
    >
    > Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have
    > issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is
    > with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.


    [lines re-wrapped]

    > [...]


    Kerry, your "postings" (via Info-VAX) don't have any "References:"
    header -- so a newsreader conforming to the standards can *not* do
    "threading" appropriately. Mozilla/SeaMonkey (for example) *do* have the
    option of "threading by subject" -- but since a lot of postings don't
    have a "meaningful subject" (e.g., just "Question") you run the risk of
    "threads" being composed of several independent postings sent many years
    apart.

    Michael

    --
    Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.
    My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.

  13. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    >
    > It is because you post using info-vax that your responses are out of order,
    > in the sense that at least my news reader doesnt recognize and stack it in
    > the
    > appropriate tree, as a result it is difficult to figure to whom you are
    > responding, which in my case generally means that I simply delete your
    > posts
    > without reading them, not because I don't value your contributions, but I
    > have too
    > much to do and can't be bothered to figure out to whom you are repsonding.


    I never had a problem when I used Info-VAX.

    Mayeb it's the news server you're using that can't get things in
    order.


  14. Re: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    In article , JF Mezei
    writes:

    > from you. Which is acceptable. However, you really need to set your
    > software to wrap lines (CR-LF at the end of each lines). Your software
    > currently inserts CR-LF only at the end of each paragraph.


    One cannot quote the words of the master often enough:

    Nearly every internet application protocol (HTTP, FTP, NNTP, SMTP)
    specifies as the line terminator and nearly every unix-derived
    application screws it up at some point it its development.

    ---Dave Jones

    While we're at it, might as well quote another Mr. Jones:

    My pants are not as tight any more, I don't open my shirt so far and I
    don't pick up the underwear.

    ---Tom Jones acknowledges the passing of time

    > It also doesn't send the right image when you , an HP employee, can't
    > seem to figure out how to send standard-abiding messages.
    >
    > Now, HP, being a subsidiary of Microsoft, probably doesn't mind when its
    > employees send messages in Microsoft-standard format since it helps push
    > the internet towards Microsoft standards. But in a VMS group, you find
    > people who do not support Microsoft standards and want to see people
    > adhere to established real internet standards (which Microsoft doesn't
    > adhere to).


    Indeed.


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