On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 18:16:16 -0700, Main, Kerry wrote:

>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
>> Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
>> Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
>>
>> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
>> almost
>> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
>> news.individual.net
>> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
>>
>> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
>> wrote:
>>
>
> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
>
> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have
> issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with
> your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.

It is because you post using info-vax that your responses are out of order,
in the sense that at least my news reader doesnt recognize and stack it in
the
appropriate tree, as a result it is difficult to figure to whom you are
responding, which in my case generally means that I simply delete your
posts
without reading them, not because I don't value your contributions, but I
have too
much to do and can't be bothered to figure out to whom you are repsonding.


>
> Regards
>
>
> Kerry Main
> Senior Consultant
> HP Services Canada
> Voice: 613-592-4660
> Fax: 613-591-4477
> kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
> (remove the DOT's and AT)
>
> OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
>
>
>



--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com

Main, Kerry wrote:
> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
>
> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.


Mr Main,

This particular post was sent as:
Organization: Info-VAX<==>comp.os.vms Gateway
X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List
Lines: 38
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

from you. Which is acceptable. However, you really need to set your
software to wrap lines (CR-LF at the end of each lines). Your software
currently inserts CR-LF only at the end of each paragraph.

Many newsreaders will wrap poorly formatted text, reducing the impact on
the reader, but it is still a problem.

It also doesn't send the right image when you , an HP employee, can't
seem to figure out how to send standard-abiding messages.

Now, HP, being a subsidiary of Microsoft, probably doesn't mind when its
employees send messages in Microsoft-standard format since it helps push
the internet towards Microsoft standards. But in a VMS group, you find
people who do not support Microsoft standards and want to see people
adhere to established real internet standards (which Microsoft doesn't
adhere to).

"Main, Kerry" wrote:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
> > Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
> > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
> > Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
> >
> > Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
> > almost
> > a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
> > news.individual.net
> > or please stop posting. Most annoying.
> >
> > On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
> > wrote:
> >
>
> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
>
> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
>

Notice the quote indicators. There's only one at the beginning of the sentence
above; the rest of the lines break where Netscape thought they should (as I'm
seeing it, writing this reply), but came into the news-server as one long line.

So, yes - that is how the Usenet world is seeing your posts.

--
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/

In article , "Main, Kerry" writes:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
>> Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
>> Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
>>
>> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
>> almost
>> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
>> news.individual.net
>> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
>>
>> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
>> wrote:
>>
>
> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?

Yes, top posting is bad form. But responses should be inserted
just after the point to which they respond, and extraneous matter
(that to which no response is being made) should be deleted.

Responders should not worry about preserving a record of what was
said before - we all have that. Just enough to provide context.

On 08/01/07 20:16, Main, Kerry wrote:
>> -----Original Message----- From: Tom Linden
>> [mailto:tom@kednos.company] Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM To:
>> Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe:
>> Stay on Alpha forever?
>>
>> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of
>> order, almost a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try
>> Opera, use news.individual.net or please stop posting. Most
>> annoying.
>>
>> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
>> wrote:
>>
>
> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
>
> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not
> have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are
> having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing
> replies.

Outlook breaks threading and doesn't wrap it's lines. Most aggrivating.


--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

David J Dachtera writes:

>"Main, Kerry" wrote:
>>
>> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
>>
>> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
>>

>Notice the quote indicators. There's only one at the beginning of the sentence
>above; the rest of the lines break where Netscape thought they should (as I'm
>seeing it, writing this reply), but came into the news-server as one long line.

>So, yes - that is how the Usenet world is seeing your posts.

Kerry's posts are "quoted-printable" so they still appear as the Microsoft
standard superlong line if you use a news reader that supports it. If
yours doesn't, the lines are broken up oddly with strange equal signs
added, like this:

(quote)
Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues=
with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your clie=
nt or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
(end quote)

Kerry's posts don't have a References: header, which is very bad and
breaks threading, and this is the cause of the initial complaint.
I don't know if this is solvable using Info-VAX.

If you have to use Outhouse, I think there is a "post as straight text"
setting somewhere.

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 18:16:16 -0700, Main, Kerry wrote:

>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
>> Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
>> Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
>>
>> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
>> almost
>> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
>> news.individual.net
>> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
>>
>> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
>> wrote:
>>
>
> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
>
> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have
> issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with
> your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.

Well, if you consider it, I wasn't top-posting, since I created a new
subject.
It was my error to have included superfluos text from the previous post.

This group has a penchant for meandering without changing the subject, and
I
find it convenient with my newsreader, Opera, to wipe out entire trees, for
subjects which I have no interest in. But when you post through Info-VAX
it
doesn't appear as a descendant but as a new root. Maybe other newsreaders
don't
have this capability, I don't know.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Kerry Main
> Senior Consultant
> HP Services Canada
> Voice: 613-592-4660
> Fax: 613-591-4477
> kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
> (remove the DOT's and AT)
>
> OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
>
>
>



--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com

Michael Moroney wrote:
> David J Dachtera writes:
>
>
>>"Main, Kerry" wrote:
>>
>>>Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
>>>
>>>Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
>>>
>>
>
>>Notice the quote indicators. There's only one at the beginning of the sentence
>>above; the rest of the lines break where Netscape thought they should (as I'm
>>seeing it, writing this reply), but came into the news-server as one long line.
>
>
>>So, yes - that is how the Usenet world is seeing your posts.
>
>
> Kerry's posts are "quoted-printable" so they still appear as the Microsoft
> standard superlong line if you use a news reader that supports it. If
> yours doesn't, the lines are broken up oddly with strange equal signs
> added, like this:
>
> (quote)
> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues=
> with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your clie=
> nt or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.
> (end quote)
>
> Kerry's posts don't have a References: header, which is very bad and
> breaks threading, and this is the cause of the initial complaint.
> I don't know if this is solvable using Info-VAX.
>
> If you have to use Outhouse, I think there is a "post as straight text"
> setting somewhere.

I'm using the Netscape Mail/News client under Windows/XP and I've never
noticed any problems with Kerry's posts!

In article ,
"Main, Kerry" writes:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Linden
>> Sent: August 1, 2007 9:01 PM
>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
>> Subject: Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?
>>
>> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
>> almost
>> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
>> news.individual.net
>> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
>>
>> On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry
>> wrote:
>>
>
> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?

Sometimes that's where the answer belongs. Of course you could then cut
the majority of the rest if it is irrelevant.

>
> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have issues=
> with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is with your clie=
> nt or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.

Well, here's another vote along with Tom. I especially don't like the
fact that your replies take an address from the headefrs and create a
"mailto:" from it even when it is not a valid email address and just
gives the spammers more machines thay can annoy. You really shold try
to find a real news reader and a real news server to read from. Tom
mentioned news.individual.net. I use it and second that suggestion.
The cost is trivial and the service excellent.

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 06:06:05 -0700, Richard B. Gilbert
wrote:

> I'm using the Netscape Mail/News client under Windows/XP and I've never
> noticed any problems with Kerry's posts!
>

Are they properly threaded? Maybe _I_ need to change newsreader.

--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com

[subject line corrected]

On 2007-08-02 03:16, "Main, Kerry" wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company]
>> [...]
>>
>> Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order,
>> almost
>> a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
>> news.individual.net
>> or please stop posting. Most annoying.
>>
>> [...]
>
> Tom - I thought top posting was bad form?
>
> Based on offline feedback from others on this list, they do not have
> issues with the postings, so I suspect the issue you are having is
> with your client or the way Info-VAX is processing replies.

[lines re-wrapped]

> [...]

Kerry, your "postings" (via Info-VAX) don't have any "References:"
header -- so a newsreader conforming to the standards can *not* do
"threading" appropriately. Mozilla/SeaMonkey (for example) *do* have the
option of "threading by subject" -- but since a lot of postings don't
have a "meaningful subject" (e.g., just "Question") you run the risk of
"threads" being composed of several independent postings sent many years
apart.

Michael

--
Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.
My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.

In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
>
> It is because you post using info-vax that your responses are out of order,
> in the sense that at least my news reader doesnt recognize and stack it in
> the
> appropriate tree, as a result it is difficult to figure to whom you are
> responding, which in my case generally means that I simply delete your
> posts
> without reading them, not because I don't value your contributions, but I
> have too
> much to do and can't be bothered to figure out to whom you are repsonding.

I never had a problem when I used Info-VAX.

Mayeb it's the news server you're using that can't get things in
order.

In article , JF Mezei
writes:

> from you. Which is acceptable. However, you really need to set your
> software to wrap lines (CR-LF at the end of each lines). Your software
> currently inserts CR-LF only at the end of each paragraph.

One cannot quote the words of the master often enough:

Nearly every internet application protocol (HTTP, FTP, NNTP, SMTP)
specifies as the line terminator and nearly every unix-derived
application screws it up at some point it its development.

---Dave Jones

While we're at it, might as well quote another Mr. Jones:

My pants are not as tight any more, I don't open my shirt so far and I
don't pick up the underwear.

---Tom Jones acknowledges the passing of time

> It also doesn't send the right image when you , an HP employee, can't
> seem to figure out how to send standard-abiding messages.
>
> Now, HP, being a subsidiary of Microsoft, probably doesn't mind when its
> employees send messages in Microsoft-standard format since it helps push
> the internet towards Microsoft standards. But in a VMS group, you find
> people who do not support Microsoft standards and want to see people
> adhere to established real internet standards (which Microsoft doesn't
> adhere to).

Indeed.