RE: Stay on Alpha forever? - VMS

This is a discussion on RE: Stay on Alpha forever? - VMS ; > -----Original Message----- > From: tadamsmar [mailto:tadamsmar@yahoo.com] > Sent: August 1, 2007 3:18 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Stay on Alpha forever? > > I am evaluating an upgrade to Integrity. > > I am pretty sure the upgrade ...

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 3 of 3

Thread: RE: Stay on Alpha forever?

  1. RE: Stay on Alpha forever?

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: tadamsmar [mailto:tadamsmar@yahoo.com]
    > Sent: August 1, 2007 3:18 PM
    > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > Subject: Stay on Alpha forever?
    >
    > I am evaluating an upgrade to Integrity.
    >
    > I am pretty sure the upgrade is going to be more costly than
    > staying
    > on Alpha. I don't have good estimates, but I would ballpark the
    > costs
    > in the tens of thousands, with no significant return on investment.
    >
    > But the app is mission-critical with no end-date in site.
    >
    > Can a costly upgrade be justfied simply because you can't stay on
    > Alphas forever?



    Upgrades are typically about plus's and minus's and then looking at the overall benefits.

    With Alpha, since you stated it was a mission critical application, can we assume you are paying maint on the existing Alpha's? If so, then you can assume that these are costs that are going to increase quite a bit as the servers continue to age. This is no different than VAX maint costs (and they are significant).

    In some cases, I have seen the 3-4 year maint cost savings alone were enough to justify the initial migration costs.

    In terms of migration costs, it really depends on the application. Some Customers have ported large applications in 3 day porting workshops. If there is minimal architecture specific code, and release notes are reviewed, the porting costs would likely be minimal. Of course, the primary application porting is only one of the considerations, because supporting app's, ISV utilities and testing efforts also need to be considered as well, but again, it depends on the environment.

    You also have to consider that, over time, more and more new OpenVMS features will be Integrity specific, so depending on your app requirements, that may impede your ability to address future requirements.

    Depending on the App type and requirements, Integrity servers do outperformAlpha servers as well.

    Reference a good porting and performance presentation by Guy Peleg from Bruden that is available at:
    http://www.hp-interex.be/wiki/images...plications.ppt


    Regards


    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-592-4660
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.





  2. Kerry needs a news readerRe: Stay on Alpha forever?

    Kerry, no insult intended, but your posts always come out of order, almost
    a non sequitur. Please get a news reader. Try Opera, use
    news.individual.net
    or please stop posting. Most annoying.

    On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:43:19 -0700, Main, Kerry wrote:

    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: tadamsmar [mailto:tadamsmar@yahoo.com]
    >> Sent: August 1, 2007 3:18 PM
    >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    >> Subject: Stay on Alpha forever?
    >>
    >> I am evaluating an upgrade to Integrity.
    >>
    >> I am pretty sure the upgrade is going to be more costly than
    >> staying
    >> on Alpha. I don't have good estimates, but I would ballpark the
    >> costs
    >> in the tens of thousands, with no significant return on investment.
    >>
    >> But the app is mission-critical with no end-date in site.
    >>
    >> Can a costly upgrade be justfied simply because you can't stay on
    >> Alphas forever?

    >
    >
    > Upgrades are typically about plus's and minus's and then looking at the
    > overall benefits.
    >
    > With Alpha, since you stated it was a mission critical application, can
    > we assume you are paying maint on the existing Alpha's? If so, then you
    > can assume that these are costs that are going to increase quite a bit
    > as the servers continue to age. This is no different than VAX maint
    > costs (and they are significant).
    >
    > In some cases, I have seen the 3-4 year maint cost savings alone were
    > enough to justify the initial migration costs.
    >
    > In terms of migration costs, it really depends on the application. Some
    > Customers have ported large applications in 3 day porting workshops. If
    > there is minimal architecture specific code, and release notes are
    > reviewed, the porting costs would likely be minimal. Of course, the
    > primary application porting is only one of the considerations, because
    > supporting app's, ISV utilities and testing efforts also need to be
    > considered as well, but again, it depends on the environment.
    >
    > You also have to consider that, over time, more and more new OpenVMS
    > features will be Integrity specific, so depending on your app
    > requirements, that may impede your ability to address future
    > requirements.
    >
    > Depending on the App type and requirements, Integrity servers do
    > outperform Alpha servers as well.
    >
    > Reference a good porting and performance presentation by Guy Peleg from
    > Bruden that is available at:
    > http://www.hp-interex.be/wiki/images...plications.ppt
    >
    >
    > Regards
    >
    >
    > Kerry Main
    > Senior Consultant
    > HP Services Canada
    > Voice: 613-592-4660
    > Fax: 613-591-4477
    > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    > (remove the DOT's and AT)
    >
    > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
    >
    >
    >
    >




    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  3. Re: Stay on Alpha forever?

    On Aug 1, 8:43 pm, "Main, Kerry" wrote:
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From:tadamsmar[mailto:tadams...@yahoo.com]
    > > Sent: August 1, 2007 3:18 PM
    > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > > Subject: Stay on Alpha forever?

    >
    > > I am evaluating an upgrade to Integrity.

    >
    > > I am pretty sure the upgrade is going to be more costly than
    > > staying
    > > on Alpha. I don't have good estimates, but I would ballpark the
    > > costs
    > > in the tens of thousands, with no significant return on investment.

    >
    > > But the app is mission-critical with no end-date in site.

    >
    > > Can a costly upgrade be justfied simply because you can't stay on
    > > Alphas forever?

    >
    > Upgrades are typically about plus's and minus's and then looking at the overall benefits.
    >
    > With Alpha, since you stated it was a mission critical application, >can we assume you are paying maint on the existing Alpha's? If so, >then you can assume that these are costs that are going to increase >quite a bit as the servers continue to age. This is no different than >VAX maint costs (and they are significant).


    We are not paying maintenance. We have have at least one spare ready
    to replace a failed machine.

    >
    > In some cases, I have seen the 3-4 year maint cost savings alone were enough to justify the initial migration costs.
    >
    > In terms of migration costs, it really depends on the application. Some Customers have ported large applications in 3 day porting workshops. If there is minimal architecture specific code, and release notes are reviewed, the porting costs would likely be minimal. Of course, the primary application porting is only one of the considerations, because supporting app's, ISV utilities and testing efforts also need to be considered as well, but again, it depends on the environment.
    >


    We have commercial software that did not port. That's probably the
    biggest headache for us.

    > You also have to consider that, over time, more and more new OpenVMS features will be Integrity specific, so depending on your app requirements, that may impede your ability to address future requirements.


    That is indeed a potential issue. As new networking features come
    into use, we might not be able to find Alpha software for them.

    >
    > Depending on the App type and requirements, Integrity servers do outperform Alpha servers as well.
    >
    > Reference a good porting and performance presentation by Guy Peleg from Bruden that is available at:http://www.hp-interex.be/wiki/images...plications.ppt
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Kerry Main
    > Senior Consultant
    > HP Services Canada
    > Voice: 613-592-4660
    > Fax: 613-591-4477
    > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    > (remove the DOT's and AT)
    >
    > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -




+ Reply to Thread