Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive - VMS ; From: "Robert Jarratt" > Because I have tried a number of drives that are listed here: > > http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html > > I could not boot from any of these that I tried. The only one that has > worked so ...

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Thread: Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

  1. Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

    From: "Robert Jarratt"

    > Because I have tried a number of drives that are listed here:
    >
    > http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html
    >
    > I could not boot from any of these that I tried. The only one that has
    > worked so far was an RRD42 that I borrowed.


    A report like that might have some value if you revealed which drives
    you tried, how they were configured (for the ones with block-size
    options), and what, exactly, happened when you tried it/them. Saying
    that "a number of drives" didn't work, and not even revealing the
    number, helps no one.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
    382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
    Saint Paul MN 55105-2547

  2. Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

    That is because it wasn't a report, just explaining why I was interested in
    the RRD42. To be honest I also can't remember all the drives I tried, the
    ones I remember were:

    Sony CDU 55S
    RRD43
    CR-506B

    Regards

    Rob


    "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in message
    news:07073016461927_202003EE@antinode.org...
    > From: "Robert Jarratt"
    >
    >> Because I have tried a number of drives that are listed here:
    >>
    >> http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html
    >>
    >> I could not boot from any of these that I tried. The only one that has
    >> worked so far was an RRD42 that I borrowed.

    >
    > A report like that might have some value if you revealed which drives
    > you tried, how they were configured (for the ones with block-size
    > options), and what, exactly, happened when you tried it/them. Saying
    > that "a number of drives" didn't work, and not even revealing the
    > number, helps no one.
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
    > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
    > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547




  3. Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

    I forgot to mention that in all cases I tried all combinations of jumpers.
    In all cases the machine would not boot from the bootable CD, but I do not
    recall the error message.

    Regards

    Rob


    "Robert Jarratt" wrote in message
    news:6qtri.8962$ph7.5966@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
    > That is because it wasn't a report, just explaining why I was interested
    > in the RRD42. To be honest I also can't remember all the drives I tried,
    > the ones I remember were:
    >
    > Sony CDU 55S
    > RRD43
    > CR-506B
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Rob
    >
    >
    > "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in message
    > news:07073016461927_202003EE@antinode.org...
    >> From: "Robert Jarratt"
    >>
    >>> Because I have tried a number of drives that are listed here:
    >>>
    >>> http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html
    >>>
    >>> I could not boot from any of these that I tried. The only one that has
    >>> worked so far was an RRD42 that I borrowed.

    >>
    >> A report like that might have some value if you revealed which drives
    >> you tried, how they were configured (for the ones with block-size
    >> options), and what, exactly, happened when you tried it/them. Saying
    >> that "a number of drives" didn't work, and not even revealing the
    >> number, helps no one.
    >>
    >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>
    >> Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
    >> 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
    >> Saint Paul MN 55105-2547

    >
    >




  4. Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

    On Jul 30, 4:18 pm, "Robert Jarratt" wrote:
    > I forgot to mention that in all cases I tried all combinations of jumpers.
    > In all cases the machine would not boot from the bootable CD, but I do not
    > recall the error message.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Rob
    >
    > "Robert Jarratt" wrote in message
    >
    > news:6qtri.8962$ph7.5966@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
    >
    >
    >
    > > That is because it wasn't a report, just explaining why I was interested
    > > in the RRD42. To be honest I also can't remember all the drives I tried,
    > > the ones I remember were:

    >
    > > Sony CDU 55S
    > > RRD43
    > > CR-506B

    >
    > > Regards

    >
    > > Rob

    >
    > > "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in message
    > >news:07073016461927_202003EE@antinode.org...
    > >> From: "Robert Jarratt"

    >
    > >>> Because I have tried a number of drives that are listed here:

    >
    > >>>http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html

    >
    > >>> I could not boot from any of these that I tried. The only one that has
    > >>> worked so far was an RRD42 that I borrowed.

    >
    > >> A report like that might have some value if you revealed which drives
    > >> you tried, how they were configured (for the ones with block-size
    > >> options), and what, exactly, happened when you tried it/them. Saying
    > >> that "a number of drives" didn't work, and not even revealing the
    > >> number, helps no one.

    >
    > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    >
    > >> Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
    > >> 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
    > >> Saint Paul MN 55105-2547- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    I have a number of IBM 4x cdrom drives both half and full height
    drives that I been using in place of the RRD42 drives. They have the
    jumper that you can switch between 512 and 1024. If anybody needs 1
    just let me know.
    phil


  5. Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

    Robert Jarratt wrote:
    > That is because it wasn't a report, just explaining why I was interested in
    > the RRD42. To be honest I also can't remember all the drives I tried, the
    > ones I remember were:
    >
    > Sony CDU 55S
    > RRD43
    > CR-506B


    The VAXstation 3100 model 38 has reasonably standard SCSI, and works
    with most (all?) of the 512-byte CD drives I've tried with it over the
    years. I'd be surprised if a properly-configured and functional RRD43
    drive didn't work with a VAXstation 3100, or most any other old
    SCSI-capable VAX. (Well, the VAXstation 2000 and MicroVAX 2000 external
    bus was "almost SCSI"...)

    There exists a partial list of CD drives seen with OpenVMS over at
    http://64.223.189.234/node/12

    Also see http://64.223.189.234/node/342 for some related.

    The biggest problem I've seen with older CD drives involves media
    incompatibilities. These drives are as old or other than the beginning
    of widespread use of recordable media formats, and these formats can be
    quite difficult for the older drives due to differences in reflectivity.
    The RRD42 has particular problems with some media formulations, but
    I've seen various sorts of media incompatibilities across all of the
    drives. Newer drives tend to have far fewer issues.

    I've seen any number of SCSI issues over the years, whether due to bus
    under- or over-termination, addressing collisions, over-long buses, or
    bad cables or other such.

    The ISO path -- raw disk images -- is not for the inexperienced system
    manager. It can and does work, but it's not as easy due to differences
    in file structures. There's a document on working with CD media and
    with the creation of bootable CD media for OpenVMS systems available at
    http://64.223.189.234/node/28

    If a CD installation kit is available, what I generally end up doing in
    this case is BACKUP /IMAGE over to a scratch magnetic disk. Then the
    disk is transfered over to the target device, and it can then be booted
    directly, and installed onto (or can upgrade) a disk on the target
    system. I can and do use this approach if there are time constraints
    with the target system, or if I'm upgrading multiple systems, or if I'm
    using a low-speed CD drive -- life is just too short to use an RRD42, or
    most any other CD drive less than 8x for that matter.

    Scratch RZ-class disks and BA356 shelves are very cheap on eBay. If
    you're married to an ancient VAX, a BA353 pizza box is a very handy box.
    It's very compact, a good monitor stand, easily stacked, and easy to
    configure as each slot can be individually configured and addressed.
    See http://64.223.189.234/node/54 for some related details.


    --
    www.HoffmanLabs.com
    Services for OpenVMS

  6. Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

    > The biggest problem I've seen with older CD drives involves media
    > incompatibilities. These drives are as old or other than the beginning of
    > widespread use of recordable media formats, and these formats can be quite
    > difficult for the older drives due to differences in reflectivity. The
    > RRD42 has particular problems with some media formulations, but I've seen
    > various sorts of media incompatibilities across all of the drives. Newer
    > drives tend to have far fewer issues.


    In my case I borrowed an external RRD42 which was able to boot off exactly
    the same
    CD that I have also tried in the RRD43, so it can't be the media in this
    case.

    > I've seen any number of SCSI issues over the years, whether due to bus
    > under- or over-termination, addressing collisions, over-long buses, or bad
    > cables or other such.


    This is perhaps an avenue for investigation, although the RRD43 is an
    internal drive and I just
    removed one of the tiny internal disks and plugged the RRD43 in its place.
    The drive will read
    media when installed in this way once VMS is running, but the machine will
    not boot off it. I'll check
    the termination jumpers, but if the drive works under VMS then surely there
    can't be a termination/cabling
    issue, or can there?

    > If a CD installation kit is available, what I generally end up doing in
    > this case is BACKUP /IMAGE over to a scratch magnetic disk. Then the disk
    > is transfered over to the target device, and it can then be booted
    > directly, and installed onto (or can upgrade) a disk on the target system.
    > I can and do use this approach if there are time constraints with the
    > target system, or if I'm upgrading multiple systems, or if I'm using a
    > low-speed CD drive -- life is just too short to use an RRD42, or most any
    > other CD drive less than 8x for that matter.


    I used the BACKUP/IMAGE method you suggest, but I'd still like a bootable
    CD drive so I don't have to rely on one machine working to get another one
    going.

    Regards

    Rob



  7. Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

    Thanks for all the suggestions, I am going to investigate SCSI
    cables/termination etc. further when my family allows me the time. I will
    report back.

    Regards

    Rob



  8. Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

    Robert Jarratt wrote:
    >
    > Thanks for all the suggestions, I am going to investigate SCSI
    > cables/termination etc. further when my family allows me the time. I will
    > report back.


    I can relate to that...

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  9. Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive

    Well, here is my report regarding bootability of various drives with the
    VAXstation 3100 M38. I had made an error that is so embarassing I would
    rather not mention it here. Suffice to say that the following drives *do*
    work on an M38 and I *can* boot off them. The drives that work are:

    RRD43
    CR-506B

    I cannot boot from the following drive:

    Sony CDU 55S

    This drive gives me a DKBTDRIVER error when I try to boot off it.

    Regards

    Rob

    "Robert Jarratt" wrote in message
    news:v3Oti.14956$h11.9992@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
    > Thanks for all the suggestions, I am going to investigate SCSI
    > cables/termination etc. further when my family allows me the time. I will
    > report back.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Rob
    >




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