Re: July the 4th - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: July the 4th - VMS ; Bob Koehler wrote: > If the US Military was 100% in charge there wouldn't be anyone else > running around Iraq with guns. There has never been enough troops > commited to make that so and I doubt there ever ...

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Thread: Re: July the 4th

  1. Re: July the 4th

    Bob Koehler wrote:
    > If the US Military was 100% in charge there wouldn't be anyone else
    > running around Iraq with guns. There has never been enough troops
    > commited to make that so and I doubt there ever will be.



    The USA domestic political issues are more or less irrelevant here.
    Whether they have enough resources on the ground in Iraq or not is not
    the issue. The issue is that the USA military is the one that makes the
    decisions in Iraq. It is USA military policy that USA military answers
    to nobody but itself when abroad. (aka: USA would not send troups on a
    mission that was not lead by an american).


    It was the USA military that decided to change the iraqi currency (to
    make hussein and sons poor), it was the USA military that decided which
    books could and could not be used at schools, and which teachers could
    and could not teach, which person could and could not run for election
    etc. The decision to allow US oil firms to buy into Iraqi oil fields
    didn't come from Iraqis.

    Now, put yourself into Iraqi shoes. The USA are factually inept at
    keeping peace in Iraq, inept at rebuilding, and very good are corruption
    and excesses when it comes to feeding Haliburton and Blackwater, and the
    USA military remains in power, with a puppet government in Iraq that is
    there to put an Iraqi face to US decisions that benefit USA corporations
    instead of benefiting iraqis.

    You don't make peace with machine guns. You make peace by meeting with
    the people who oppose you and include them in the rebuilding process.
    But the USA military (unexpectedly) only thinks about military solutions.

    Under Hussein, if you were law abiding and didn't openly criticise him,
    you were safe. There was a functioning government, well defined election
    process and constitution that may have needed just a bit of tweaking to
    ensure no elected leader becomes a lifelong dictator. It didn't need
    THAT much tweaking to get it to an acceptable level of respect for human
    rights and proper democracy. And there was a (fragile) balance between
    the various sects. During the 1990s, peace between Hussein and the Kurds
    was achieved by granting the Kurds greater autonomy and ensuring that
    the military in the kurd region was staffed and lead by kurds.

    Why did the USA insist on zapping the currency, military and police,
    banking system and constitution and starting from scratch ?

    The problem is that the very mentality that caused those catastrophic
    mistakes is still very much in place because the military is still very
    much in control.

    What is neededd is for the USA to relegate troups to simple policing and
    not interfere with the government AT ALL, and let he UN and he Arab
    League help/guide the government. But that would require the USA
    military to take orders from the Iraqi government which is something the
    USA military is genetically incapable of doing. So as a result, the
    deaths, carnage an civil war continue.

  2. Re: July the 4th

    On 07/24/07 11:59, JF Mezei wrote:
    [snip]
    >
    > Under Hussein, if you were law abiding and didn't openly criticise him,
    > you were safe.


    Unless a family member criticized Him to a friend who then snitched.
    And the secret police came and killed/ the whole family.

    > There was a functioning government, well defined election
    > process and constitution that may have needed just a bit of tweaking to
    > ensure no elected leader becomes a lifelong dictator.


    Geez, how much dope are you smoking?

    > It didn't need
    > THAT much tweaking to get it to an acceptable level of respect for human
    > rights and proper democracy.


    What *kind* of dope are you smoking?

    > And there was a (fragile) balance between
    > the various sects. During the 1990s, peace between Hussein and the Kurds
    > was achieved by granting the Kurds greater autonomy and ensuring that
    > the military in the kurd region was staffed and lead by kurds.


    And *why* was that autonomy achieved? Not thru the beneficence of
    Saddam's heart.

    > Why did the USA insist on zapping the currency, military and police,
    > banking system and constitution and starting from scratch ?
    >
    > The problem is that the very mentality that caused those catastrophic
    > mistakes is still very much in place because the military is still very
    > much in control.
    >
    > What is neededd is for the USA to relegate troups to simple policing and


    *Simple* policing?

    Policing isn't simple.

    > not interfere with the government AT ALL, and let he UN and he Arab
    > League help/guide the government. But that would require the USA
    > military to take orders from the Iraqi government which is something the
    > USA military is genetically incapable of doing. So as a result, the
    > deaths, carnage an civil war continue.


    Of course, the Arab League is predominately Sunni (Iran is, of
    course, not Arab) and that would cause just as many problems.

    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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