OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ? - VMS

This is a discussion on OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ? - VMS ; In article , bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > "P. Sture" writes: > > In article , > > Ron Johnson wrote: > > > >> On 07/19/07 02:02, Martin Krischik wrote: > >> [snip] > >> ...

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Thread: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

  1. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    In article <5g90usF3etdh7U1@mid.individual.net>,
    bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:

    > In article ,
    > "P. Sture" writes:
    > > In article ,
    > > Ron Johnson wrote:
    > >
    > >> On 07/19/07 02:02, Martin Krischik wrote:
    > >> [snip]
    > >> >
    > >> > PS: Last week I got a mail from a VMS advocate claiming that DCL is
    > >> > better then bash. In retrospect: If all you ever see is an 11 year old
    > >> > bash that DCL is indeed better.
    > >>
    > >> Mini Coopers pollute less than trucks, and so are "better". But
    > >> when you want to haul a family and it's gear half-way across the
    > >> country, minivans start to look a heck of a lot better.
    > >>
    > >> (Amerocentrism: it just occurred to me, though, that driving a
    > >> family half way across Britain in a Mini Cooper wouldn't be that
    > >> rough. London->Liverpool is only 285 crow-flies km, whereas St
    > >> Louis->Los Angeles is 9x further.)

    > >
    > > A modern Mini Cooper (BMW made) is far better. I was amazed when I saw a
    > > neighbor unloading furniture from his, and realized how roomy they were
    > > in comparison with the original.
    > >
    > > But when you from the US mention the word "minivan", this is what
    > > immediately pops into my mind:
    > >
    > > http://www.bobleroi.co.uk/ScrapBook/...ing/Willow.jpg
    > >
    > > Not quite the same thing ;-)

    >
    > Your right, isn't that just an estate wagon?


    Not the best picture to demonstrate that there are no side windows at
    the back, for that is the legal definition of a van (it's a tax thing
    too).

    http://www.bobleroi.co.uk/ScrapBook/...sMotoring.html

    and scroll down to:

    "WYN 435G a 948cc Blue 1969 Morris Mini Van in 1972"

    >
    > I always remember when I worked in the papermill and one of my co-workers
    > walked up ro me and said he couldn't see how I could be comfortable in such
    > a small car, I drove a Porsche 914 in those days. Two seater, lots of
    > leg room, top comes off for even more headroom. After work I watched him
    > meet his carpool and all four of them (there were full-sized american
    > factory bulls) climb into a Honda Civic CVCC. For those, unfamiliar with
    > that nomenclature, it's no bigger than the original Mini!! :-)
    >
    > I guess, like beauty, it's all in the eye of the beholder....
    >


    As students, we used to fit 5 into a Mini saloon. The estate car version
    (with side windows at the back) was the favourite as you could also cram
    a couple of students into the luggage compartment as well.

    --
    Paul Sture

  2. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    John E. Malmberg wrote:

    > You need to look at the HP GNV site. The HP maintainer has not been
    > keeping the sourceforge site up to date.


    download it allready - got some installation problems :-(

    > And what things are missing from the older bash that is in GNV?


    programmable command completion to name one.

    > The only thing that I have seen that affects running the UNIX build
    > procedures is that it is missing the "printf" built in.


    Yes - if all you want is configure scripts bash 1.4 is good enough.
    configure Scripts start with:

    #!/bin/sh

    which means that bash is running in POSIX compliant mode anyway.

    I however are talking about bash vs DCL - where interactive use comes in.
    You know commandline completion, history search, a prompt with more then 32
    characters and all sorts of syntactic sugar. When bash is not running in
    POSIX compliant but full feature mode. And then there is a difference.

    Martin
    --
    mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
    Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com

  3. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    In article <46a05461$1@news.post.ch>,
    Martin Krischik wrote:

    > I wonder where my other post when. Ahh, well maybe it appears later!


    Yes it has just appeared for me. The hispeed.ch news server was either
    not working or _very slow_ since about midnight. It seems OK now.

    --
    Paul Sture

  4. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    Martin Krischik wrote:

    > -----------------------------------------------------------
    > PRODUCT Install GNV /Destination=PTT_TOOLS_ODS5:[000000]
    > %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading
    > $1$DGA5:[USER5.][KRISCHIKM.TMP]DEC-AXPVMS-GNV-V0201-001-1.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1
    > -RMS-W-RTB, 685 byte record too large for user's buffer
    > %PCSI-E-OPENIN, error opening
    > $1$DGA5:[USER5.][KRISCHIKM.TMP]DEC-AXPVMS-GNV-V0201-001-1.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1
    > as input
    > %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed
    > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error
    > condition
    > -----------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Any Ideas?


    Re-download the kit. If you allowed the kit to touch a foreign platform
    on the way to OpenVMS, re-transfer the original kit to OpenVMS and unzip
    it there -- yes, the HP GNV site says you can do that. I'd not try
    that. If you're not using unzip 2.32 and (when zipping) zip 5.54 or
    later, do upgrade. Also ensure you have the appropriate and current
    PCSI ECO kit installed.


    --
    www.HoffmanLabs.com
    Services for OpenVMS

  5. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    In article ,
    Stephen Hoffman wrote:

    > Martin Krischik wrote:
    >
    > > -----------------------------------------------------------
    > > PRODUCT Install GNV /Destination=PTT_TOOLS_ODS5:[000000]
    > > %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading
    > > $1$DGA5:[USER5.][KRISCHIKM.TMP]DEC-AXPVMS-GNV-V0201-001-1.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1
    > > -RMS-W-RTB, 685 byte record too large for user's buffer
    > > %PCSI-E-OPENIN, error opening
    > > $1$DGA5:[USER5.][KRISCHIKM.TMP]DEC-AXPVMS-GNV-V0201-001-1.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1
    > > as input
    > > %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed
    > > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error
    > > condition
    > > -----------------------------------------------------------
    > >
    > > Any Ideas?

    >
    > Re-download the kit. If you allowed the kit to touch a foreign platform
    > on the way to OpenVMS, re-transfer the original kit to OpenVMS and unzip
    > it there -- yes, the HP GNV site says you can do that. I'd not try
    > that. If you're not using unzip 2.32 and (when zipping) zip 5.54 or
    > later, do upgrade. Also ensure you have the appropriate and current
    > PCSI ECO kit installed.


    Uh, those version numbers for zip and unzip are reversed.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


  6. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    On 07/20/07 06:00, P. Sture wrote:
    [snip]
    >
    > As students, we used to fit 5 into a Mini saloon. The estate car version


    That's an awfully small pub...

    > (with side windows at the back) was the favourite as you could also cram
    > a couple of students into the luggage compartment as well.


    --
    Ron Johnson, Jr.
    Jefferson LA USA

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
    Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

  7. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    > As for slotting in the shim to get out into the file system, there's no
    > documented layer to integrate a file system into OpenVMS, which makes
    > this sort of thing "interesting" -- slotting in a variant file system
    > akin to NFS client is not documented, and assumptions in various
    > components such as MOUNT -- you need some form of MOUNT to bring a file
    > system ACP online -- can get tangled.


    TCPIP Services have a /processor=file:filename in its monut command to
    change the file the ACP uses but I can not find any doc on this
    possible ACP. do you know any doc on that ?

    TIA,
    Pierre.



  8. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    Martin Krischik wrote:
    > John E. Malmberg wrote:
    >
    >>And what things are missing from the older bash that is in GNV?

    >
    > programmable command completion to name one.
    >
    >>The only thing that I have seen that affects running the UNIX build
    >>procedures is that it is missing the "printf" built in.

    >
    >
    > Yes - if all you want is configure scripts bash 1.4 is good enough.
    > configure Scripts start with:


    Well that is the about the only thing I need bash to run.

    > I however are talking about bash vs DCL - where interactive use comes in.
    > You know commandline completion, history search, a prompt with more then 32
    > characters and all sorts of syntactic sugar. When bash is not running in
    > POSIX compliant but full feature mode. And then there is a difference.


    Some of those features are missing because the terminfo API was not
    ported to VMS for GNV or bash. Others depend on the READLINE APIs.
    Upgrading to a new bash will not change these unless these things are
    addressed.

    -John
    wb8tyw@qsl.network
    Personal Opinion Only

  9. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    On Jul 20, 11:18 am, Pierre wrote:
    > On Jul 20, 5:51 am, "John E. Malmberg" wrote:
    >
    > > Pierre wrote:

    >
    > > > - what would be needed to access 'something' over say a network link ?
    > > > one just have to translate IOs into function calls wich 'do something'
    > > > over the network and answer with results formated in an acceptable
    > > > fashion. is this the job of the ACP ?

    >
    > > Yes, if you want it to be transparent to all programs.

    >
    > > The APIs needed to access the network from kernel mode or exec mode may
    > > be different than that for user mode.

    >
    > and of course, UCX (TCPIP) people have more facility than me to create
    > their pseudo disk over a NFS mount (I do not want to do a pseudo disk
    > over NFS mount, it's just an example )


    talking about UCX's NSF pseudo disk drivers gave me an idea

    in fact, what is needed to create a filesystem in userspace is a
    pseudo-disk driver la UCX's NFS mount which only present a 'disk' to
    VMS + some userspace image which does all the work.

    as writing such a pseudo-device driver is far beyond my knowlage and
    that AFAIK a device driver can not communicate with an image running
    in userspace (maybe the ACP, I dunno), what can be done as a first try
    crude proof-of-concept is to hack a NFS server (many are freely
    available in source) and use NFS mount command to create disks which
    would use the userspace filesystem run by the hacked NFS server.

    I said a crude proof-of-concept as this would imply some network usage
    (even if using local loop) and as NFS is not known to be fastest file
    system on earth.

    Pierre.


  10. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    In article <1185124668.097113.244570@n60g2000hse.googlegroups. com>, Pierre writes:
    >
    > as writing such a pseudo-device driver is far beyond my knowlage and
    > that AFAIK a device driver can not communicate with an image running
    > in userspace (maybe the ACP, I dunno), what can be done as a first try
    > crude proof-of-concept is to hack a NFS server (many are freely
    > available in source) and use NFS mount command to create disks which
    > would use the userspace filesystem run by the hacked NFS server.


    The point of an ACP is to have user-space capabilities in close
    relation to a device driver (which is restricted to kernel-space
    operations).

    Adding an ACP and a driver together is straightforward, and
    documented in some third party documentation, but not really
    supported.

    Writing you own driver for an existing ACP or your own ACP for an
    existing driver is niether documented or supported. For that you
    get to buy the source listing CD, reverse-engineer the existing
    interface, and hope it doesn't change to much in the future.

    Whether you connect to an existing interface, or roll your own for
    both parts, making it usefull may require some understanding of
    what RMS expects, since almost everything usefull sits on top of RMS.

    The ususal workaround is to write a tool which will transfer data
    between native VMS disks and foreign disks, such as those which are
    available for FAT. Then any other program accesses the data on the
    native VMS file system.

    Which eliminates the problem of how to make a file system which has
    no concept of meta-data useable by RMS.


  11. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    On Jul 23, 2:45 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article <1185124668.097113.244...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups. com>, Pierre writes:
    >
    >
    >
    > > as writing such a pseudo-device driver is far beyond my knowlage and
    > > that AFAIK a device driver can not communicate with an image running
    > > in userspace (maybe the ACP, I dunno), what can be done as a first try
    > > crude proof-of-concept is to hack a NFS server (many are freely
    > > available in source) and use NFS mount command to create disks which
    > > would use the userspace filesystem run by the hacked NFS server.

    >
    > The point of an ACP is to have user-space capabilities in close
    > relation to a device driver (which is restricted to kernel-space
    > operations).
    >
    > Adding an ACP and a driver together is straightforward, and
    > documented in some third party documentation, but not really
    > supported.
    >
    > Writing you own driver for an existing ACP or your own ACP for an
    > existing driver is niether documented or supported. For that you
    > get to buy the source listing CD, reverse-engineer the existing
    > interface, and hope it doesn't change to much in the future.
    >
    > Whether you connect to an existing interface, or roll your own for
    > both parts, making it usefull may require some understanding of
    > what RMS expects, since almost everything usefull sits on top of RMS.
    >
    > The ususal workaround is to write a tool which will transfer data
    > between native VMS disks and foreign disks, such as those which are
    > available for FAT. Then any other program accesses the data on the
    > native VMS file system.
    >
    > Which eliminates the problem of how to make a file system which has
    > no concept of meta-data useable by RMS.



    well... this is good idea if the problem is to get access to a device
    with an on disk foreign file system.
    but my need is a *really* exotic filesystem: a kind of infinite
    capacity filesystem, something that looks like GFS (Google File Sytem)
    or MogileFS.

    Pierre


  12. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    In article <1185203137.824166.315560@k79g2000hse.googlegroups. com>, Pierre writes:
    >
    > well... this is good idea if the problem is to get access to a device
    > with an on disk foreign file system.
    > but my need is a *really* exotic filesystem: a kind of infinite
    > capacity filesystem, something that looks like GFS (Google File Sytem)
    > or MogileFS.


    I don't know either of those file systems. Do you think they have
    enough meta-data capability to keep up with RMS? A simple
    byte-stream file concept isn't going to hack it.


  13. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    On Jul 23, 7:28 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article <1185203137.824166.315...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups. com>, Pierre writes:
    >
    >
    >
    > > well... this is good idea if the problem is to get access to a device
    > > with an on disk foreign file system.
    > > but my need is a *really* exotic filesystem: a kind of infinite
    > > capacity filesystem, something that looks like GFS (Google File Sytem)
    > > or MogileFS.

    >
    > I don't know either of those file systems. Do you think they have
    > enough meta-data capability to keep up with RMS? A simple
    > byte-stream file concept isn't going to hack it.


    you will find a brief description of them (starting at slide 34) in
    the slideshow available there: http://tinyurl.com/3d2v36

    as they are described in this paper, I think they where implemented
    using vanilla un*x file stream. but more than the implementation, the
    idea in itself is interresting and can be implemented using all the
    metadata RMS loves so much. there is no restriction for the masters/
    trackers to store RMS compatible information.

    Pierre.


  14. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    Stephen Hoffman schrieb:
    > Martin Krischik wrote:
    >
    >> -----------------------------------------------------------
    >> PRODUCT Install GNV /Destination=PTT_TOOLS_ODS5:[000000]
    >> %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading
    >> $1$DGA5:[USER5.][KRISCHIKM.TMP]DEC-AXPVMS-GNV-V0201-001-1.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1
    >>
    >> -RMS-W-RTB, 685 byte record too large for user's buffer
    >> %PCSI-E-OPENIN, error opening
    >> $1$DGA5:[USER5.][KRISCHIKM.TMP]DEC-AXPVMS-GNV-V0201-001-1.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1
    >>
    >> as input
    >> %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed
    >> %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error
    >> condition
    >> -----------------------------------------------------------
    >>
    >> Any Ideas?

    >
    > Re-download the kit. If you allowed the kit to touch a foreign platform
    > on the way to OpenVMS, re-transfer the original kit to OpenVMS and unzip
    > it there -- yes, the HP GNV site says you can do that. I'd not try
    > that. If you're not using unzip 2.32 and (when zipping) zip 5.54 or
    > later, do upgrade.


    That could be tricky - internet access is only available via a proxy
    with user-id/password authentication. Any wget, ncftp or similar modern
    download tool available for OpenVMS?

    > Also ensure you have the appropriate and current
    > PCSI ECO kit installed.


    I have to check that as well.

    Martin

    --
    mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
    Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com

  15. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    > That could be tricky - internet access is only available via a proxy
    > with user-id/password authentication. Any wget, ncftp or similar modern
    > download tool available for OpenVMS?


    at least wget and cURL are available for OpenVMS. I don't have the URL
    in mind. ask Google.

    Pierre.



  16. Re: OpenVMS 8.3, GNV... one step beyond ? FUSE ?

    In article <46a59b4d$1@news.post.ch>,
    Martin Krischik wrote:

    > Stephen Hoffman schrieb:
    > > Martin Krischik wrote:
    > >
    > >> -----------------------------------------------------------
    > >> PRODUCT Install GNV /Destination=PTT_TOOLS_ODS5:[000000]
    > >> %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading
    > >> $1$DGA5:[USER5.][KRISCHIKM.TMP]DEC-AXPVMS-GNV-V0201-001-1.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1
    > >>
    > >> -RMS-W-RTB, 685 byte record too large for user's buffer
    > >> %PCSI-E-OPENIN, error opening
    > >> $1$DGA5:[USER5.][KRISCHIKM.TMP]DEC-AXPVMS-GNV-V0201-001-1.PCSI$COMPRESSED;1
    > >>
    > >> as input
    > >> %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed
    > >> %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error
    > >> condition
    > >> -----------------------------------------------------------
    > >>
    > >> Any Ideas?

    > >
    > > Re-download the kit. If you allowed the kit to touch a foreign platform
    > > on the way to OpenVMS, re-transfer the original kit to OpenVMS and unzip
    > > it there -- yes, the HP GNV site says you can do that. I'd not try
    > > that. If you're not using unzip 2.32 and (when zipping) zip 5.54 or
    > > later, do upgrade.

    >
    > That could be tricky - internet access is only available via a proxy
    > with user-id/password authentication. Any wget, ncftp or similar modern
    > download tool available for OpenVMS?


    wget is available at Steven Schweda's site:

    http://www.antinode.org/dec/sw/wget.html

    For curl go to

    http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../07/17/1323228

    and follow the links.

    > > Also ensure you have the appropriate and current
    > > PCSI ECO kit installed.

    >
    > I have to check that as well.
    >


    --
    Paul Sture

    Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
    http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~stu...bookmarks.html

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