Re: Disk repair (soft / logical) - VMS

This is a discussion on Re: Disk repair (soft / logical) - VMS ; Hello JF "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:24b16$469e4c87$cef8887a$24343@TEKSAVVY.COM... > > Tisk Tisk ! No chocolate for you today :-) :-( > > ANA/DISK/REPAIR will restore those files to the [SYSLOST] directory. But > whiles it runs, IO on that disk ...

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Thread: Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

  1. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    Hello JF

    "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    news:24b16$469e4c87$cef8887a$24343@TEKSAVVY.COM...

    >
    > Tisk Tisk ! No chocolate for you today :-)


    :-(

    >
    > ANA/DISK/REPAIR will restore those files to the [SYSLOST] directory. But
    > whiles it runs, IO on that disk grinds to a halt.
    >


    It's not in [SYSLOST] as it was purposely deleted
    And yes, I have to do this on Sundays only... or if I can't sleep at 3:00 AM

    >
    > To "uninstall" the images, you can try:
    >
    > $INSTALL PURGE
    >
    > This ininstalls all installed files from that node, on all disks where
    > there are installed images, global sections and what not.
    >
    >


    I did't know this.
    But still, I cannot do it as all hell will break loose in my applications.
    I'd rather do a shutdown.


    Someone else ?

    Thanks
    Syltrem



  2. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    "Syltrem" writes:

    >"JF Mezei" wrote in message
    >news:24b16$469e4c87$cef8887a$24343@TEKSAVVY.COM...


    >> ANA/DISK/REPAIR will restore those files to the [SYSLOST] directory. But
    >> whiles it runs, IO on that disk grinds to a halt.
    >>


    >It's not in [SYSLOST] as it was purposely deleted
    >And yes, I have to do this on Sundays only... or if I can't sleep at 3:00 AM


    >Someone else ?


    If the files were deleted, I suspect they will be treated the same way as
    any other file that was held open while deleted. It lives on the disk but
    not in any directory, with a "delete pending" flag. When the (last)
    application to hold the file open actually closes it, it will be deleted.
    If the system crashes the file will still be there, and $ ANALYZE/DISK
    will flag it, and will delete it if /REPAIR is specified.

    What I'll guess is the file exists with delete pending set, and will exist
    until INSTALL PURGE is executed, or the system is shut down cleanly (which
    does an INSTALL PURGE). I suggest:

    1) Don't worry about it.
    2) Reboot the system if 1) doesn't work for you.
    3) If the system crashes without shutting down cleanly, do an
    $ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR to get rid of it after the system reboots.


  3. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    Syltrem wrote:
    > But still, I cannot do it as all hell will break loose in my applications.
    > I'd rather do a shutdown.



    Would it be possible to do a SET FILE/ENTER based on the file-id of the
    "lost" files ? Then you would have a bona-fide pointer to a file and
    could then use "install delete" to remove that installed image, and then
    do a proper delete on the file.

    If you had caught this early enough, you might have been able to use an
    undelete utility (included in DFU) to restore the deleted directory file
    at which point, you'd have fixed the problem.

    You can still try it. The old directory file might still be recovable.

    Another option you might have is to recreate a new directory of the same
    name, and create a new version of the executable, and then use INSTALL
    REPLACE, and this could free up the ghost installed image.

  4. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > Syltrem wrote:
    >
    >> But still, I cannot do it as all hell will break loose in my
    >> applications. I'd rather do a shutdown.

    >
    >
    >
    > Would it be possible to do a SET FILE/ENTER based on the file-id of the
    > "lost" files ? Then you would have a bona-fide pointer to a file and
    > could then use "install delete" to remove that installed image, and then
    > do a proper delete on the file.
    >
    > If you had caught this early enough, you might have been able to use an
    > undelete utility (included in DFU) to restore the deleted directory file
    > at which point, you'd have fixed the problem.
    >
    > You can still try it. The old directory file might still be recovable.
    >
    > Another option you might have is to recreate a new directory of the same
    > name, and create a new version of the executable, and then use INSTALL
    > REPLACE, and this could free up the ghost installed image.


    Was the directory deleted, or the contents of the directory deleted, or
    both? If the directory was deleted (shouldn't be possible without first
    set file/remove or deleting all the files in it), then ana/disk/repair
    should put the files in [syslost]. Do you have sufficient privileges
    to do this (you would need at least write access to [000000] on the disk,
    or BYPASS, IIRC.)

    If the files are deleted, then because they are marked for delete, I think
    ANA/DISK/REP will ignore them, and wait for them to go away when they
    are closed (when the "open count" goes to zero, which for installed images
    won't happen until they are removed and no process has them mapped.) If
    the system crashes or the disk is improperly dismounted in the interim
    (for example, it goes offline and then into mount verify timeout), I
    think you'll have to wait for a reboot, and then ana/disk/repair to make
    them go away, but in this case, they'll just be taking up space; after
    the reboot, the system won't know about them as installed images any more.

    Have you checked if DFU's undelete function will bring them back? Since
    they are installed, the blocks they are using on the disk and their headers
    are safe from re-use, they just have a delete-pending bit set in memory
    somewhere and in their headers, and they are no longer entered in any
    directory. If DFU can clean up the delete-pending bits, ana/disk/repair
    should put them in [syslost], and then you can create (or recreate) the
    directory and rename them from [syslost] to [desired_directory], thus
    restoring the system state.

    Are they read-only shareable images (typical of executables or runtime
    libraries), in which case retrieving them from your backups would be
    fine, and you could let things continue to run indefinitely with existing
    processes using the deleted copies and any new processes using the restored
    copies. Or are they read/write (shared data sections), in which case
    you probably want the data back? If worst came to worst, you could
    track down the headers, dump out the retrieval pointers, and then
    DUMP/BLOCK=(start=x,count=y) DISK: to get back the contents (depending
    on how dynamic the data is.) Then a SMOP on the dump file to convert back to
    binary and Bob's your uncle. Then think about your backup procedures
    and user privileges and protection codes on files and directories to
    prevent this from happening again and to make it easier to recover!


    --
    John Santos
    Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
    781-861-0670 ext 539

  5. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    Syltrem wrote:
    >
    > Hello JF
    >
    > "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    > news:24b16$469e4c87$cef8887a$24343@TEKSAVVY.COM...
    >
    > >
    > > Tisk Tisk ! No chocolate for you today :-)

    >
    > :-(
    >
    > >
    > > ANA/DISK/REPAIR will restore those files to the [SYSLOST] directory. But
    > > whiles it runs, IO on that disk grinds to a halt.
    > >

    >
    > It's not in [SYSLOST] as it was purposely deleted


    VERIFY (ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR) should create a new one and enter those files into
    it. That may or may not fix your problem.

    > And yes, I have to do this on Sundays only... or if I can't sleep at 3:00 AM
    >
    > >
    > > To "uninstall" the images, you can try:
    > >
    > > $INSTALL PURGE
    > >
    > > This ininstalls all installed files from that node, on all disks where
    > > there are installed images, global sections and what not.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > I did't know this.
    > But still, I cannot do it as all hell will break loose in my applications.


    Why?

    > I'd rather do a shutdown.


    Sounds good to me. Shutdown the app., do the INSTALL PURGE, the
    ANAL/DISK/REPAIR. Then, see what state things are in.

    A reboot wouldn't hurt, but not until you've done the above.

    In any case, I do hope you have a backup with these files on it somewhere...

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  6. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    In article <139sni13ldd6m91@corp.supernews.com>,
    "Syltrem" wrote:

    > OVMS 8.3 Alpha or IA64


    > Someone else ?


    OVMS 8.3 Alpha here.

    $ Directory DKA0:

    HELLO.C;1 HELLO.EXE;1 HELLO.OBJ;1

    Total of 3 files.

    $ install add disk$alphasys:[temp]hello.exe/open/shared
    $ del dka0:*.*.*/lo
    %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.C;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.EXE;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.OBJ;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 3 files deleted (54 blocks)

    $ install lis disk$alphasys:[temp]hello.exe/fu

    DISK$ALPHASYS:.EXE
    HELLO;1 Open Shared
    Entry access count = 0
    Current / Maximum shared = 1 / 0
    Global section count = 1

    $ install del disk$alphasys:[temp]hello.exe
    $

    IOW, V8.3 doesn't seem to care if the original .EXE actually exists
    anymore.

    Note that it can be picky about the device name. For example, if added
    using DKA0:, the listing shows DISK$ALPHASYS, but that doesn't work for
    the delete:

    $ cre/dir dka0:
    $ copy hello.* dka0:/lo
    %COPY-S-COPIED, USER_SY:HELLO.C;1 copied to
    DKA0:HELLO.C;1 (1 block)
    %COPY-S-COPIED, USER_SY:HELLO.EXE;1 copied to
    DKA0:HELLO.EXE;1 (7 blocks)
    %COPY-S-COPIED, USER_SY:HELLO.OBJ;1 copied to
    DKA0:HELLO.OBJ;1 (4 blocks)
    %COPY-S-NEWFILES, 3 files created
    $ install add dka0:hello.exe/open/share/head
    $ install list dka0:hello.exe /full

    DISK$ALPHASYS:.EXE
    HELLO;1 Open Hdr Shared
    Entry access count = 0
    Current / Maximum shared = 1 / 0
    Global section count = 1

    $ install del DISK$ALPHASYS:HELLO.EXE
    %INSTALL-W-FAIL, failed to REMOVE entry for DISK$ALPHASYS:HELLO.EXE
    -INSTALL-E-NOKFEFND, Known File Entry not found
    $ install del DKA0:HELLO.EXE
    $

    A little bit of trial and error will probably get you there.

    --
    Paul Sture

  7. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)


    "P. Sture" wrote in message
    newsaul.sture.nospam-02DD5A.13541919072007@mac.sture.ch...
    > In article <139sni13ldd6m91@corp.supernews.com>,
    > "Syltrem" wrote:
    >
    >> OVMS 8.3 Alpha or IA64

    >
    >> Someone else ?

    >
    > OVMS 8.3 Alpha here.
    >
    > $ Directory DKA0:
    >
    > HELLO.C;1 HELLO.EXE;1 HELLO.OBJ;1
    >
    > Total of 3 files.
    >
    > $ install add disk$alphasys:[temp]hello.exe/open/shared
    > $ del dka0:*.*.*/lo
    > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.C;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.EXE;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.OBJ;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    > %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 3 files deleted (54 blocks)
    >
    > $ install lis disk$alphasys:[temp]hello.exe/fu
    >
    > DISK$ALPHASYS:.EXE
    > HELLO;1 Open Shared
    > Entry access count = 0
    > Current / Maximum shared = 1 / 0
    > Global section count = 1
    >
    > $ install del disk$alphasys:[temp]hello.exe
    > $
    >



    Hmm, yes, but the directory was not deleted
    I tried on my test system and even with the directory deleted, it still
    works.
    Great!

    So I just need to remember what the name of the directory was.
    Those are not files that I need; I just forgot to INSTALL REMOVE before
    deleting the directory.

    I remember the name of one of the 2 directories I'm having problems with. I
    was able to successfully remove the entries from it. The other one is a bit
    deeper (many levels) so I will just do a backup/list of a tape that has it
    to find the correct path to the installed files.

    Why I cannot INSTALL PURGE, I was asked ?
    Because "protected images must be installed" (can`t remember the exact
    message I would get, would I try this).
    If I could stop my applications and uninstall them, I could do a shutdown as
    well. But I can`t.

    Thanks very much for your help, everyone !

    Problem solved without a reboot (of course, this is not M$) !

    Syltrem



  8. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)


    "Syltrem" wrote in message
    news:139uu4h7mjbtmc0@corp.supernews.com...

    > I remember the name of one of the 2 directories I'm having problems with. I was able to
    > successfully remove the entries from it. The other one is a bit deeper (many levels) so
    > I will just do a backup/list of a tape that has it to find the correct path to the
    > installed files.


    "pipe install list > files.txt" might be quicker than messing around with tapes.



  9. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)


    "Richard Brodie" wrote in message
    news:f7nuhc$sde$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...
    >
    > "Syltrem" wrote in message
    > news:139uu4h7mjbtmc0@corp.supernews.com...
    >
    >> I remember the name of one of the 2 directories I'm having problems with.
    >> I was able to successfully remove the entries from it. The other one is a
    >> bit deeper (many levels) so I will just do a backup/list of a tape that
    >> has it to find the correct path to the installed files.

    >
    > "pipe install list > files.txt" might be quicker than messing around with
    > tapes.
    >
    >


    Install LIST gives the path as [43456,0,0]
    That's the whole point...

    Syltrem



  10. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    P. Sture wrote:
    > $ install add disk$alphasys:[temp]hello.exe/open/shared
    > $ del dka0:*.*.*/lo
    > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.C;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.EXE;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    > %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.OBJ;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    > %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 3 files deleted (54 blocks)



    As I recall, he didn't delete the .EXE, he deleted TEMP.DIR

  11. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)


    "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    news:b17f3$469f9821$cef8887a$26546@TEKSAVVY.COM...
    > P. Sture wrote:
    >> $ install add disk$alphasys:[temp]hello.exe/open/shared
    >> $ del dka0:*.*.*/lo %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.C;1 deleted
    >> (18 blocks)
    >> %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.EXE;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    >> %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.OBJ;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    >> %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 3 files deleted (54 blocks)

    >
    >
    > As I recall, he didn't delete the .EXE, he deleted TEMP.DIR


    Hi JF
    I deleted both, but that still works. See my other post !

    Syltrem



  12. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    On Jul 18, 8:11 pm, John Santos wrote:
    > JF Mezei wrote:
    > > Syltrem wrote:

    >

    [...]
    >
    > Have you checked if DFU's undelete function will bring them back? Since
    > they are installed, the blocks they are using on the disk and their headers
    > are safe from re-use, they just have a delete-pending bit set in memory
    > somewhere and in their headers, and they are no longer entered in any
    > directory. If DFU can clean up the delete-pending bits, ana/disk/repair
    > should put them in [syslost], and then you can create (or recreate) the
    > directory and rename them from [syslost] to [desired_directory], thus
    > restoring the system state.

    [...]
    > --
    > John Santos
    > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
    > 781-861-0670 ext 539- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    I thought it must have come up before as I'm using DFU 2.4, 2.6, and
    2.7-A, but I better mention it now: DFU's UNDELETE function clobbered
    other files when I used it! I got ANAL/DISK messages like this one:

    %ANALDISK-W-BADDIRENT, invalid file identification in directory entry
    [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSMGR]PORT.COM;7
    -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIRFIDSEQ, invalid file sequence number in directory
    file ID

    I'd try it on a scratch disk first.

    Has anyone else had this problem with DFU?

    AEF


  13. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    In article <139v84cm2khp646@corp.supernews.com>,
    "Syltrem" wrote:

    > "JF Mezei" wrote in message
    > news:b17f3$469f9821$cef8887a$26546@TEKSAVVY.COM...
    > > P. Sture wrote:
    > >> $ install add disk$alphasys:[temp]hello.exe/open/shared
    > >> $ del dka0:*.*.*/lo %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.C;1 deleted
    > >> (18 blocks)
    > >> %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.EXE;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    > >> %DELETE-I-FILDEL, DKA0:HELLO.OBJ;1 deleted (18 blocks)
    > >> %DELETE-I-TOTAL, 3 files deleted (54 blocks)

    > >
    > >
    > > As I recall, he didn't delete the .EXE, he deleted TEMP.DIR

    >
    > Hi JF
    > I deleted both, but that still works. See my other post !
    >


    In fact I also deleted the directory. I just forgot to paste that bit
    into my reply.

    --
    Paul Sture

  14. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    AEF wrote:

    > I thought it must have come up before as I'm using DFU 2.4, 2.6, and
    > 2.7-A

    .....
    > Has anyone else had this problem with DFU?


    Older DFU had its share of bugs.

    You're way back, too.

    DFU V3.1-1 and V3.2 are current.

    http://www.digiater.nl/dfu
    http://64.223.189.234/node/58


    --
    www.HoffmanLabs.com
    Services for OpenVMS

  15. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    On Jul 20, 12:45 pm, Stephen Hoffman RemoveThis-.Org> wrote:
    > AEF wrote:
    > > I thought it must have come up before as I'm using DFU 2.4, 2.6, and
    > > 2.7-A

    > ....
    > > Has anyone else had this problem with DFU?

    >
    > Older DFU had its share of bugs.
    >
    > You're way back, too.
    >
    > DFU V3.1-1 and V3.2 are current.
    >
    > http://www.digiater.nl/dfuhttp://64.223.189.234/node/58
    >
    > --www.HoffmanLabs.com
    > Services for OpenVMS


    It's kind of ironic, no? You use UNDELETE and it secretly deletes
    other perfectly good files! Then you need to UNDELETE those! Etc. ...
    Yikes!

    AEF


  16. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    AEF wrote:
    >
    > On Jul 18, 8:11 pm, John Santos wrote:
    > > JF Mezei wrote:
    > > > Syltrem wrote:

    > >

    > [...]
    > >
    > > Have you checked if DFU's undelete function will bring them back? Since
    > > they are installed, the blocks they are using on the disk and their headers
    > > are safe from re-use, they just have a delete-pending bit set in memory
    > > somewhere and in their headers, and they are no longer entered in any
    > > directory. If DFU can clean up the delete-pending bits, ana/disk/repair
    > > should put them in [syslost], and then you can create (or recreate) the
    > > directory and rename them from [syslost] to [desired_directory], thus
    > > restoring the system state.

    > [...]
    > > --
    > > John Santos
    > > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
    > > 781-861-0670 ext 539- Hide quoted text -
    > >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > I thought it must have come up before as I'm using DFU 2.4, 2.6, and
    > 2.7-A, but I better mention it now: DFU's UNDELETE function clobbered
    > other files when I used it! I got ANAL/DISK messages like this one:
    >
    > %ANALDISK-W-BADDIRENT, invalid file identification in directory entry
    > [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSMGR]PORT.COM;7
    > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIRFIDSEQ, invalid file sequence number in directory
    > file ID
    >
    > I'd try it on a scratch disk first.
    >
    > Has anyone else had this problem with DFU?


    I think it's a known caveat: when doing any such things - UNDELETE, DELETE/TREE,
    etc. - the recommendation is to first quiesce the system.

    Best advice: DISMOUNT the volume from the system and MOUNT it privately so you
    can be 100% certain that DFU has entirely exclusive access.

    Note also that DFU V2.7 or so DELETE/TREE cannot handle huge file counts in a
    tree without issues.

    --
    David J Dachtera
    dba DJE Systems
    http://www.djesys.com/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/

    Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/

    Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/

    Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
    http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/

  17. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    On Jul 21, 11:32 am, David J Dachtera
    wrote:
    > AEF wrote:
    >
    > > On Jul 18, 8:11 pm, John Santos wrote:
    > > > JF Mezei wrote:
    > > > > Syltrem wrote:

    >
    > > [...]

    >

    [...]
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > I thought it must have come up before as I'm using DFU 2.4, 2.6, and
    > > 2.7-A, but I better mention it now: DFU's UNDELETE function clobbered
    > > other files when I used it! I got ANAL/DISK messages like this one:

    >
    > > %ANALDISK-W-BADDIRENT, invalid file identification in directory entry
    > > [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSMGR]PORT.COM;7
    > > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_DIRFIDSEQ, invalid file sequence number in directory
    > > file ID

    >
    > > I'd try it on a scratch disk first.

    >
    > > Has anyone else had this problem with DFU?

    >
    > I think it's a known caveat: when doing any such things - UNDELETE, DELETE/TREE,
    > etc. - the recommendation is to first quiesce the system.


    Known to whom? Those who already got burned?

    > Best advice: DISMOUNT the volume from the system and MOUNT it privately so you
    > can be 100% certain that DFU has entirely exclusive access.


    When this happened I restored the most recent backup tape of the disk
    to a fresh disk on another system. I mounted it privately and repeated
    the same goof and UNDELETE command.

    Same results. So it has nothing to do with exclusive access. DFU locks
    the volume anyway during UNDELETE.

    >----O----<


    I forgot to mention I also got messages like this:

    %ANALDISK-W-ALLOCCLR, blocks incorrectly marked allocated
    LBN 421880 to 421883, RVN 1

    >----O----<


    Also, the doc says (V2.4)

    NOTE: The volume (set) will be locked for other users during the
    undelete command unless the /LIST qualifier is used.

    The UNDELETE command may be able to recover the file if it has not yet
    been overwritten with a new one. Much care has been taken to make this
    command as safe as possible; therefore no disk corruptions will be the
    result of an UNDELETE. If DFU encounters a problem with a deleted file
    it will refuse to UNDELETE it.

    >----O----<


    OK: What I don't understand is why it messed with the the file
    sequence numbers in the file headers of other files.

    > Note also that DFU V2.7 or so DELETE/TREE cannot handle huge file counts in a
    > tree without issues.


    Now he tells me! :-)

    Anyway, I haven't used DFU UNDELETE since!

    >
    > --
    > David J Dachtera

    [...]

    AEF


  18. Re: Disk repair (soft / logical)

    On Jul 20, 12:45 pm, Stephen Hoffman RemoveThis-.Org> wrote:
    > AEF wrote:
    > > I thought it must have come up before as I'm using DFU 2.4, 2.6, and
    > > 2.7-A

    > ....
    > > Has anyone else had this problem with DFU?

    >
    > Older DFU had its share of bugs.
    >
    > You're way back, too.
    >
    > DFU V3.1-1 and V3.2 are current.
    >
    > http://www.digiater.nl/dfuhttp://64.223.189.234/node/58
    >
    > --www.HoffmanLabs.com
    > Services for OpenVMS


    I'm running VMS V6.1 and V6.2. I believe I can't use those current
    versions.

    Thanks anyway.

    AEF


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