CVS on VMS - VMS

This is a discussion on CVS on VMS - VMS ; From googling I see that there have been attempts in the past to port CVS to VMS. AFAICS this development seems to have wound up in a backwater and I am not sure what the current state of play is. ...

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  1. CVS on VMS

    From googling I see that there have been attempts in the past to port
    CVS to VMS. AFAICS this development seems to have wound up in a
    backwater and I am not sure what the current state of play is. Can
    anyone advise please?

    The reason I ask is that I am in an environment that uses VMS for
    hysterical reasons. It is no longer a strategic platform and on a
    project-by-project basis there are attempts to move off it. For
    projects that are on it the source tends to be maintained using CMS. I
    was wondering if the source could be hosted on a Unix machine where
    the CVS server would be and then developers on VMS could use a VMS CVS
    client. One benefit is that it would make the source available to more
    people that need to see it that are not VMS developers. Any thoughts?

    Regards,

    Andrew Marlow


  2. Re: CVS on VMS


    wrote in message
    news:2f2d994a-c88c-40b0-a575-5a21861cd7a2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

    > From googling I see that there have been attempts in the past to port
    > CVS to VMS. AFAICS this development seems to have wound up in a
    > backwater and I am not sure what the current state of play is. Can
    > anyone advise please?


    CVS is a bit unfashionable these days. Folks are generally more
    interested in ports of SVN or git. There are some reports of good
    results with SVNkit. The off the shelf alternative, is Perforce, I guess.
    Otherwise, some assembly required.



  3. RE: CVS on VMS


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: marlow.andrew@googlemail.com
    > [mailto:marlow.andrew@googlemail.com]
    > Sent: May 30, 2008 11:37 AM
    > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
    > Subject: CVS on VMS
    >
    > From googling I see that there have been attempts in the past to port
    > CVS to VMS. AFAICS this development seems to have wound up in a
    > backwater and I am not sure what the current state of play is. Can
    > anyone advise please?
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I am in an environment that uses VMS for
    > hysterical reasons. It is no longer a strategic platform and on a
    > project-by-project basis there are attempts to move off it. For
    > projects that are on it the source tends to be maintained using CMS. I
    > was wondering if the source could be hosted on a Unix machine where
    > the CVS server would be and then developers on VMS could use a VMS CVS
    > client. One benefit is that it would make the source available to more
    > people that need to see it that are not VMS developers. Any thoughts?
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Andrew Marlow


    If the shop is looking at NetBeans (Sun Open Source dev environment)
    then the following may be of interest: (see CMS support plug-in info)

    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvm.../ips/netbeans/

    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr.../overview.html
    "NetBeans is a modular, integrated development environment (IDE) for Java
    and JavaBeans development. Written in 100 percent pure Java(tm), it was
    open-sourced by Sun Microsystems. Its popularity is a result of its
    versatility, extensible architecture, and relative ease of use.

    Key features are:
    - Support for the Java, C/C++, XML, and HTML
    - Support for JSP, XML, RMI, CORBA, JINI, JDBC, and servlet technologies
    - Support for Ant, CVS, and other version control systems
    - Pluggable support for compilers, debuggers and execution services
    - GUI form designer and other visual design tools
    - Wizards for code generation and management tools
    - Syntax-highlighting source editor

    http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pr...dules.html#cms
    "This module makes available CMS source code control functionality within
    the NetBeans IDE. CMS commands are seamlessly integrated with the NetBeans
    Explorer file system, leveraging NetBeans built-in Version Control System
    (VCS) support. You can work with new or existing CMS libraries. You may
    also continue using CMS as a standalone version control system while using
    it in the NetBeans environment. Requires NetBeans Version 3.5.1 or higher."


    Regards

    Kerry Main
    Senior Consultant
    HP Services Canada
    Voice: 613-254-8911
    Fax: 613-591-4477
    kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
    (remove the DOT's and AT)

    OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.





  4. Re: CVS on VMS

    On 30 May, 17:24, "Richard Brodie" wrote:
    > wrote in message
    >
    > news:2f2d994a-c88c-40b0-a575-5a21861cd7a2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > > From googling I see that there have been attempts in the past to port
    > > CVS to VMS. AFAICS this development seems to have wound up in a
    > > backwater and I am not sure what the current state of play is. Can
    > > anyone advise please?

    >
    > CVS is a bit unfashionable these days.


    Yes, I know but where I am now they are way behind in the fashions....

    > Folks are generally more
    > interested in ports of SVN or git. There are some reports of good
    > results with SVNkit.


    Where? Got any good URLs please?

    > The off the shelf alternative, is Perforce, I guess.


    Whilst I hear Perforce is very good there is no way they would
    exchange one proprietary solution for another. It would be very hard
    to argue the business benefit.

    > Otherwise, some assembly required.


    hmm.

  5. Re: CVS on VMS

    Searching everyones favourite vms news site I find the following about
    SVNkit
    http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../02/07/7115309

    and also there is Mercurial source code control system
    http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../06/26/8837733

  6. Re: CVS on VMS

    IanMiller wrote:
    > Searching everyones favourite vms news site I find the following about
    > SVNkit
    > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../02/07/7115309
    >
    > and also there is Mercurial source code control system
    > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../06/26/8837733


    Also note that Mercurial is preinstalled on the ready-built
    Python LD disk containers.
    See : http://vmspython.dyndns.org/

    Jan-Erik.

  7. Re: CVS on VMS

    In article <2f2d994a-c88c-40b0-a575-5a21861cd7a2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, marlow.andrew@googlemail.com writes:
    >From googling I see that there have been attempts in the past to port
    >CVS to VMS. AFAICS this development seems to have wound up in a
    >backwater and I am not sure what the current state of play is. Can
    >anyone advise please?
    >
    >The reason I ask is that I am in an environment that uses VMS for
    >hysterical reasons. It is no longer a strategic platform and on a
    >project-by-project basis there are attempts to move off it. For
    >projects that are on it the source tends to be maintained using CMS. I
    >was wondering if the source could be hosted on a Unix machine where
    >the CVS server would be and then developers on VMS could use a VMS CVS
    >client. One benefit is that it would make the source available to more
    >people that need to see it that are not VMS developers. Any thoughts?


    There doesn't seem to be a VMS-based CVS or SVN repository. However,
    there is at least one Java-based CVS client, and if you're running Alpha
    or Itanium, you could ust that client for checkout/checkin.

    -- Alan


  8. Re: CVS on VMS

    marlow.andrew@googlemail.com wrote:
    > [...snip...]
    > The reason I ask is that I am in an environment that uses VMS for
    > *hysterical* reasons.


    Not sure if that's an intentional typo ;-)

    Andrew, you at Bloomberg or Reuters ? Your environment sounds
    rather familiar ...

  9. Re: CVS on VMS

    Richard Brodie wrote:
    > wrote in message
    > news:2f2d994a-c88c-40b0-a575-5a21861cd7a2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
    >> From googling I see that there have been attempts in the past to port
    >> CVS to VMS. AFAICS this development seems to have wound up in a
    >> backwater and I am not sure what the current state of play is. Can
    >> anyone advise please?

    >
    > CVS is a bit unfashionable these days. Folks are generally more
    > interested in ports of SVN or git. There are some reports of good
    > results with SVNkit. The off the shelf alternative, is Perforce, I guess.
    > Otherwise, some assembly required.


    SVN is the standard today.

    But there are still a lot of CVS users out there.

    Arne

  10. Re: CVS on VMS

    marlow.andrew@googlemail.com wrote:
    > From googling I see that there have been attempts in the past to port
    > CVS to VMS. AFAICS this development seems to have wound up in a
    > backwater and I am not sure what the current state of play is. Can
    > anyone advise please?
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I am in an environment that uses VMS for
    > hysterical reasons. It is no longer a strategic platform and on a
    > project-by-project basis there are attempts to move off it. For
    > projects that are on it the source tends to be maintained using CMS. I
    > was wondering if the source could be hosted on a Unix machine where
    > the CVS server would be and then developers on VMS could use a VMS CVS
    > client. One benefit is that it would make the source available to more
    > people that need to see it that are not VMS developers. Any thoughts?


    I doubt those programmers that are not assigned to work on the VMS
    code will have time to look at the VMS code.

    Which raises the question,, that if CMS is solving the real
    problem then why not stick with it ?

    Some of the terms used in CMS is a bit oldfashioned, but it
    is actually a good source control.

    If you need a web frontend then you need something newer.

    If you are a huge team then the optimistic locking in CVS/SVN
    is much better than the pessimistic locking in CMS.

    If you want to use an IDE on a PC, then you need something
    newer.

    But I would be surprised if you really needed any of those
    given the description.

    Arne

    Arne

  11. Re: CVS on VMS

    IanMiller wrote:
    > Searching everyones favourite vms news site I find the following about
    > SVNkit
    > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../02/07/7115309
    >
    > and also there is Mercurial source code control system
    > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?s.../06/26/8837733


    A bit interesting.

    1 x Java + 1 x Python

    No longer all the hacking of C code ...

    Arne

  12. Re: CVS on VMS

    On Sat, 31 May 2008 20:03:14 -0700, Arne Vajh°j wrote:

    > SVN is the standard today.
    > But there are still a lot of CVS users out there.
    >


    RCS was once widely used, we used it on Tru64. There was an interesting
    piece code developed at Berkeley late 70s SPMS Software Project Management
    System, which created a virtual directory structure organized by projects,
    the elements of which were linked to the underlyiong file system(s) and
    CVS or RCS ran under that. It was included in the early 4.x distributions.

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  13. Re: CVS on VMS

    On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 06:39:26 -0700, Tom Linden wrote:

    > On Sat, 31 May 2008 20:03:14 -0700, Arne Vajh°j wrote:
    >
    >> SVN is the standard today.
    >> But there are still a lot of CVS users out there.
    >>

    >
    > RCS was once widely used, we used it on Tru64. There was an interesting
    > piece code developed at Berkeley late 70s SPMS Software Project
    > Management
    > System, which created a virtual directory structure organized by
    > projects,
    > the elements of which were linked to the underlyiong file system(s) and
    > CVS or RCS ran under that. It was included in the early 4.x
    > distributions.
    >

    That should have been SCCS not CVS.


    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  14. Re: CVS on VMS

    In article <2f2d994a-c88c-40b0-a575-5a21861cd7a2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, marlow.andrew@googlemail.com writes:
    >
    > The reason I ask is that I am in an environment that uses VMS for
    > hysterical reasons. It is no longer a strategic platform and on a
    > project-by-project basis there are attempts to move off it. For
    > projects that are on it the source tends to be maintained using CMS. I
    > was wondering if the source could be hosted on a Unix machine where
    > the CVS server would be and then developers on VMS could use a VMS CVS
    > client. One benefit is that it would make the source available to more
    > people that need to see it that are not VMS developers. Any thoughts?


    There is a working CVS client, has been one for years, for VMS. I've
    set it up and used it, mostly with SSH access to the server (CVS
    security sucks).

    You will have the same problem between VMS and UNIX that we had
    between Windows and UNIX - one is not case sensitive, the other is,
    unless you set up and enable case sentivity as available in the
    latest releases of VMS.

    On Windows vs. UNIX, we had a perfectly good Xy and a bad xy both
    stored in a UNIX CVS server accessed for a cross compiler that ran
    on Windows. When we updated we'd get Xy and then xy, and Windows
    would store the later over Xy. When we explicitly pulled Xy from
    the server via CVS it would look perfectly good, and forcing it to be
    updated would not solve the problem of having a bad one when we got
    done with an update. We had to get into the server and dig around
    the repository to find and eliminate the bad xy.


  15. Re: CVS on VMS

    In article <484212f7$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >
    > If you need a web frontend then you need something newer.
    >

    I've seen a lot of web front ends rolled around CVS, it's not
    a major undertaking. A look around might find one of them
    already sitting somewhere for free.


  16. Re: CVS on VMS

    In article <48421171$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >
    > SVN is the standard today.


    what's the definition of "standard" in this case ?

    > But there are still a lot of CVS users out there.


    Then how can the other thing be "standard" ?


  17. Re: CVS on VMS

    Bob Koehler wrote:
    > In article <484212f7$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >> If you need a web frontend then you need something newer.
    >>

    > I've seen a lot of web front ends rolled around CVS, it's not
    > a major undertaking. A look around might find one of them
    > already sitting somewhere for free.


    Sure.

    But I don't think I have ever seen one for CMS, which is
    what I was talking about.

    Arne

  18. Re: CVS on VMS

    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > In article <48421171$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
    > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    >> SVN is the standard today.

    >
    > what's the definition of "standard" in this case ?


    The one you do never get fired for recommending.

    >> But there are still a lot of CVS users out there.

    >
    > Then how can the other thing be "standard" ?


    I think should be clear now.

    Arne

  19. Re: CVS on VMS

    On 3 Jun, 01:17, Arne Vajh°j wrote:
    > Bob Koehler wrote:
    > > In article <484212f7$0$90275$14726...@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes:
    > >> If you need a web frontend then you need something newer.

    >
    > > I've seen a lot of web front ends rolled around CVS, it's not
    > > a major undertaking. A look around might find one of them
    > > already sitting somewhere for free.

    >
    > Sure.
    >
    > But I don't think I have ever seen one for CMS, which is
    > what I was talking about.
    >
    > Arne



    Would a web front end for CMS be more popular than the windows client
    for CMS?

  20. Re: CVS on VMS

    In article <09e59653-a6bb-4efb-bea5-911d7224c849@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>, IanMiller writes:
    >On 3 Jun, 01:17, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:
    >> Bob Koehler wrote:
    >> > In article <484212f7$0$90275$14726...@news.sunsite.dk>, =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q=

    >?Arne_Vajh=3DF8j?=3D writes:
    >> >> If you need a web frontend then you need something newer.

    >>
    >> > I've seen a lot of web front ends rolled around CVS, it's not
    >> > a major undertaking. A look around might find one of them
    >> > already sitting somewhere for free.

    >>
    >> Sure.
    >>
    >> But I don't think I have ever seen one for CMS, which is
    >> what I was talking about.
    >>
    >> Arne

    >
    >
    >Would a web front end for CMS be more popular than the windows client
    >for CMS?


    Would be from my POV. I don't use Weendoze -- not that I see much of a need
    to use a web interface to CMS either.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

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