OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND? - VMS

This is a discussion on OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND? - VMS ; Is there a Unix equivalent of VMS's SET PROC/SUSPEND SET PROC/RESUME commands that "root" can apply to arbitrary processes on the system? I know that one can use kill to send the SIGSTOP and SIGCONT signals to some processes, notably, ...

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Thread: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

  1. OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    Is there a Unix equivalent of VMS's

    SET PROC/SUSPEND
    SET PROC/RESUME

    commands that "root" can apply to arbitrary processes on the system?

    I know that one can use kill to send the SIGSTOP and SIGCONT
    signals to some processes, notably, daemon processes, for a similar
    effect. But Google searches indicate that other processes which receive
    SIGSTOP never come out of the resulting "bg" state when they receive
    SIGCONT, so it seems not to be a general solution.

    Oddly in the many years since we moved over to Unix this has not come up
    before, renice -15 has been enough to knock hoggish programs down to
    size. Today a user is running something that is starting a lot of very
    fast small jobs and it is bogging down a (small) Solaris system, even
    though the bash shell (and everything below it) have been reniced.
    I think maybe this is because he's working on an NFS mounted directory,
    and doing a lot of file creation in a directory which already has over
    30000 files.

    Thanks,

    David Mathog

  2. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    David Mathog wrote:
    > Is there a Unix equivalent of VMS's
    >
    > SET PROC/SUSPEND
    > SET PROC/RESUME




    I too would be interested in this.


    > Oddly in the many years since we moved over to Unix this has not come up
    > before, renice -15 has been enough to knock hoggish programs down to



    Doesn't renice -15 increase the priority ? From what I have read ( and
    seems to work), a positive value reduces a process' priority, and a
    negative value increases it.

    Or did I read that wrong ?

    I think the VMS priority management commands are a lot more
    straighwforward than on Unix.

  3. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    JF Mezei wrote:

    >> Oddly in the many years since we moved over to Unix this has not come up
    >> before, renice -15 has been enough to knock hoggish programs down to


    > Doesn't renice -15 increase the priority ?


    You are correct, I meant renice 15. It's easy enough to use the wrong
    one since

    nice -15 (standalone program) -> more nice
    nice -n 15 (standalone program) -> less nice
    renice -15 -> less nice
    renice +15 -> more nice

    and let us not forget...

    nice -15 (csh builtin) -> less nice

    Priority manipulation is definitely not the most well thought out part
    of Unix.


    Regards,

    David Mathog

  4. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    On May 14, 7:05 pm, David Mathog wrote:
    > JF Mezei wrote:
    > >> Oddly in the many years since we moved over to Unix this has not come up
    > >> before, renice -15 has been enough to knock hoggish programs down to

    > > Doesn't renice -15 increase the priority ?

    >
    > You are correct, I meant renice 15. It's easy enough to use the wrong
    > one since
    >
    > nice -15 (standalone program) -> more nice
    > nice -n 15 (standalone program) -> less nice
    > renice -15 -> less nice
    > renice +15 -> more nice
    >
    > and let us not forget...
    >
    > nice -15 (csh builtin) -> less nice
    >
    > Priority manipulation is definitely not the most well thought out part
    > of Unix.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > David Mathog


    Along this vein in Unix is the pound sign. It means that either a
    comment follows that won't get executed or you have a superuser prompt
    and with one command can easily screw up your system big time! So it
    means either relax -- it's just a comment; or be super careful -- you
    have root priv!

    Nice. :-)

    AEF

  5. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    David Mathog wrote:
    (snip)

    > Oddly in the many years since we moved over to Unix this has not come up
    > before, renice -15 has been enough to knock hoggish programs down to
    > size. Today a user is running something that is starting a lot of very
    > fast small jobs and it is bogging down a (small) Solaris system, even
    > though the bash shell (and everything below it) have been reniced.
    > I think maybe this is because he's working on an NFS mounted directory,
    > and doing a lot of file creation in a directory which already has over
    > 30000 files.


    Last I knew (maybe five years ago) that really slowed down Solaris
    NFS servers. It seems that many unix systems (including Solaris)
    do a linear search through the directory. That gets slow as more
    and more files are created.

    -- glen


  6. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    Not sure if this has been mentioned already.

    suspends an interactive process and returns control to parent.
    "bg" from the parent reactivates the suspended process and brings it to
    foreground.


    Not sure how command mode can be used to suspect a separate process though.

  7. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    In article <48363e73$0$7288$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    > Not sure if this has been mentioned already.
    >
    > suspends an interactive process and returns control to parent.


    Note that a program can override this use of Ctrl-Z if required.

    For example, I have emacs configured to exit on Ctrl-Z (like EDT/EVE)
    instead of returning to the shell.

    > "bg" from the parent reactivates the suspended process and brings it to
    > foreground.
    >


    I think you mean "fg". :-)

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

  8. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 05:09:26 -0700, Simon Clubley
    wrote:

    > For example, I have emacs configured to exit on Ctrl-Z (like EDT/EVE)
    > instead of returning to the shell.


    Most people use ctrl-z and Meta-z to scroll up or down.

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  9. OT: Emacs bindings, was: Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 05:09:26 -0700, Simon Clubley
    > wrote:
    >
    >> For example, I have emacs configured to exit on Ctrl-Z (like EDT/EVE)
    >> instead of returning to the shell.

    >
    > Most people use ctrl-z and Meta-z to scroll up or down.
    >


    $ set response/mode=good_natured

    Modern keyboards have these things called cursor keys. :-)

    And really modern ones have keys allocated to allow you to jump whole
    screens at a time. :-)

    Seriously however, I've never come across the use of Ctrl/Meta-Z to scroll
    up or down. Which bindings are you using ? (Whenever I use emacs out of
    the box, without any customisation, Ctrl-Z _does_ actually return to the
    shell.)

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

  10. Re: OT: Emacs bindings, was: Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 10:53:56 -0700, Simon Clubley
    wrote:

    > Seriously however, I've never come across the use of Ctrl/Meta-Z to
    > scroll
    > up or down. Which bindings are you using ? (Whenever I use emacs out of
    > the box, without any customisation, Ctrl-Z _does_ actually return to the
    > shell.)


    I guess it goes back to the Prime, which came from Mit and also the
    Gosling version.


    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  11. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    >
    > Most people use ctrl-z and Meta-z to scroll up or down.
    >


    Most people? None of my emacs bindings have that, it doesn't sound
    like vi or Word, so what is it that you think most people are running?

    Maybe most people in a certain small part of the world.


  12. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    "Tom Linden" writes:

    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 05:09:26 -0700, Simon Clubley
    > wrote:


    >> For example, I have emacs configured to exit on Ctrl-Z (like EDT/EVE)
    >> instead of returning to the shell.


    > Most people use ctrl-z and Meta-z to scroll up or down.


    Only if they've changed their keybindings. The default bindings in EMACS (from
    the original TECO implementation up through GNU Emacs 22, anyway) are C-v and
    M-v.

    --
    Rich Alderson Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170)
    "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."
    news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless

  13. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    Tom Linden wrote:

    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 05:09:26 -0700, Simon Clubley
    > wrote:
    >
    > > For example, I have emacs configured to exit on Ctrl-Z (like
    > > EDT/EVE) instead of returning to the shell.

    >
    > Most people use ctrl-z and Meta-z to scroll up or down.


    OK I'll show my ignorance. Where's the meta key on my LK2/400 or PC
    keyboard?

    Cheers - Dave

    PS. Near the 'any' key perchance ?

    --


  14. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    In article <69psojF34ifcpU1@mid.individual.net>, "David Weatherall" writes:
    > Tom Linden wrote:
    >>
    >> Most people use ctrl-z and Meta-z to scroll up or down.

    >
    > OK I'll show my ignorance. Where's the meta key on my LK2/400 or PC
    > keyboard?
    >


    On current keyboards, the Escape key is normally used as the Meta key by
    emacs.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

  15. Re: OT: Emacs bindings, was: Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    In article , "Tom Linden" writes:
    > On Fri, 23 May 2008 10:53:56 -0700, Simon Clubley
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Seriously however, I've never come across the use of Ctrl/Meta-Z to
    >> scroll
    >> up or down. Which bindings are you using ? (Whenever I use emacs out of
    >> the box, without any customisation, Ctrl-Z _does_ actually return to the
    >> shell.)

    >
    > I guess it goes back to the Prime, which came from Mit and also the
    > Gosling version.
    >


    Interesting, thanks.

    BTW, what makes you think that Ctrl/Meta-Z is widely used for that purpose
    by most current emacs users ?

    Just curious. :-)

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

  16. Re: OT: Emacs bindings, was: Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    On Sat, 24 May 2008 02:07:23 -0700, Simon Clubley
    wrote:

    > BTW, what makes you think that Ctrl/Meta-Z is widely used for that
    > purpose
    > by most current emacs users ?


    Actually, nothing. I don't have much interation these days with emacs
    users,
    but when I did, going back to the 70's that is how I had seen it used, and
    as I
    mentioned it was part of the Gosmacs bindings which had fairly wide-spread
    use
    on Unix. I used it I know on Solaris 1 and 2, as well as BSD 4.x

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  17. Re: OT: Emacs bindings was Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    On Fri, 23 May 2008 12:03:33 -0700, Rich Alderson
    wrote:

    > "Tom Linden" writes:
    >
    >> On Fri, 23 May 2008 05:09:26 -0700, Simon Clubley
    >> wrote:

    >
    >>> For example, I have emacs configured to exit on Ctrl-Z (like EDT/EVE)
    >>> instead of returning to the shell.

    >
    >> Most people use ctrl-z and Meta-z to scroll up or down.

    >
    > Only if they've changed their keybindings. The default bindings in
    > EMACS (from
    > the original TECO implementation up through GNU Emacs 22, anyway) are
    > C-v and
    > M-v.
    >

    Those are page down and up, resp. I have always used C-z and M-z to scroll
    down or up a line, and by holding the key you get a soft-scroll
    effectively.

    But you are right on most versions these result in suspend or zap-to-char


    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  18. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    Simon Clubley wrote:

    > In article <69psojF34ifcpU1@mid.individual.net>, "David Weatherall"
    > writes:
    > > Tom Linden wrote:
    > >>
    > >> Most people use ctrl-z and Meta-z to scroll up or down.

    > >
    > > OK I'll show my ignorance. Where's the meta key on my LK2/400 or PC
    > > keyboard?
    > >

    >
    > On current keyboards, the Escape key is normally used as the Meta key
    > by emacs.
    >
    > Simon.


    Thanks Simon, another mystery of (computing) life resolved

    Cheers - Dave.

    --


  19. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    "David Weatherall" writes:

    > Tom Linden wrote:


    >> On Fri, 23 May 2008 05:09:26 -0700, Simon Clubley
    >> wrote:


    >>> For example, I have emacs configured to exit on Ctrl-Z (like
    >>> EDT/EVE) instead of returning to the shell.


    >> Most people use ctrl-z and Meta-z to scroll up or down.


    > OK I'll show my ignorance. Where's the meta key on my LK2/400 or PC
    > keyboard?


    As others have pointed out, the key has been defined as a prefix
    character equivalent to holding down a shift key labeled since the early
    days of TECO EMACS.

    The Stanford/Knight keyboard, which originated at the Stanford Artificial
    Intelligence Laboratory and was taken to the MIT AI Lab to Tom Knight, the
    shift keys labeled and turned on the 200 bit and the 400 bit
    respectively--these were PDP-10 systems and used a 12-bit character code of
    which the bottom 7 bits were a graphically-extended ASCII (no ASCII "control
    characters", extra non-alphanumeric characters). The use of for
    was a poor substitute.

    On PC keyboards, the key is defined as in GNU Emacs. IIRC, on
    LK201 keyboards, the key was often so defined, but that may have been
    true only under the X Window System; similarly, on Sun keyboards the
    key was frequently used as under X.

    I miss the SAIL keyboard.

    --
    Rich Alderson Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170)
    "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."
    news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless

  20. Re: OT: Unix equivalent of SET PROC/SUSPEND?

    In article , Rich Alderson writes:
    >
    > I miss the SAIL keyboard.


    Whither goeth the ALTMODE key? I remember having to tell TECO
    to accept that for ESCAPE via my .ttini file on a PDP-10.

    And my wayback machine recalls the code for _ producing a left arrow
    symbol (not the same as todays left arrow key), which was then used
    in BLISS instead of = in an assignment statement. Made a lot of funny
    looking code "A_.B + 2;" when viewed on later systems. (I learned BLISS
    from an out of date manual which didn't know the free compiler on the
    DECSYSTEM-20 tools tape would accept =).


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