TFF on TNA "terminals" ? - VMS

This is a discussion on TFF on TNA "terminals" ? - VMS ; Hi. The docs are not 100% clear on this... Does TFF (Terminal Fallback facility) support telnet (TNAnnnn) devices as "terminals" ? I get : %TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback not supported on specified terminal LAT (LTAnnnn) ports/devices seems to ...

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Thread: TFF on TNA "terminals" ?

  1. TFF on TNA "terminals" ?

    Hi.
    The docs are not 100% clear on this...

    Does TFF (Terminal Fallback facility) support
    telnet (TNAnnnn) devices as "terminals" ?

    I get :

    %TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback
    not supported on specified terminal

    LAT (LTAnnnn) ports/devices seems to work just fine...


    The docs does say that :

    "Note that you can use TFF only from local terminals;
    you cannot use terminal fallback on a remote
    terminal (RTAx)..."

    Maybe that includes TNA terminals...

  2. Re: TFF on TNA "terminals" ?

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >The docs are not 100% clear on this...


    Not only the docs. TFF seems a little bit out of order at all.
    eg. Why is there a SYS$STARTUP:TFF$SYSTARTUP.COM, but no TFF$STARTUP.COM
    (and why is it not platform independant)?

    >Does TFF (Terminal Fallback facility) support
    >telnet (TNAnnnn) devices as "terminals" ?


    Don't know. I never used TFF

    >I get :
    >
    >%TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback
    > not supported on specified terminal


    What is the command?

    >LAT (LTAnnnn) ports/devices seems to work just fine...


    Do you have virtual terminals enabled?
    Do you have a SET TERMINAL/FALLBACK done?

    >The docs does say that :
    >
    >"Note that you can use TFF only from local terminals;
    > you cannot use terminal fallback on a remote
    > terminal (RTAx)..."
    >
    >Maybe that includes TNA terminals...


    What IP stack? UCX/TCPIP? TCPware? Multinet?

    Have you also tried a FTA (SSH, X11 term) device?

    just my 0.02

    --
    Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER
    Network and OpenVMS system specialist
    E-mail peter@langstoeger.at
    A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist

  3. Re: TFF on TNA "terminals" ?

    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote:
    > In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >> The docs are not 100% clear on this...

    >
    > Not only the docs. TFF seems a little bit out of order at all.
    > eg. Why is there a SYS$STARTUP:TFF$SYSTARTUP.COM, but no TFF$STARTUP.COM
    > (and why is it not platform independant)?
    >
    >> Does TFF (Terminal Fallback facility) support
    >> telnet (TNAnnnn) devices as "terminals" ?

    >
    > Don't know. I never used TFF
    >
    >> I get :
    >>
    >> %TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback
    >> not supported on specified terminal

    >
    > What is the command?


    Sorry...

    ---- Using a Telnet port/device:

    $ sh dev tna305:

    Device Device Error
    Name Status Count
    TNA305: Online 0
    $
    $ mc tfu
    OpenVMS Terminal Fallback Facility (TFF)
    TFU> set term/fall tna305:
    %TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback not
    supported on specified terminal

    ---- Using a LAT port/device:

    $ sh dev lta23:

    Device Device Error
    Name Status Count
    LTA23: Online 0

    $ mc tfu
    OpenVMS Terminal Fallback Facility (TFF)
    TFU> set term/fall lta23:
    TFU> sh term lta23:
    TFF status for physical terminal _LTA23:

    Active tables:
    SWEDISH_D47 (fallback)
    LATIN_1 (compose sequence validation)

    Autocompose-keys (parenthesized values are character's decimal value):
    None

    Setable flags:
    NoSuspend, Noaccept_8bit, Soft_compose, Signal, NoGR_terminal
    Internal state flags:
    Reset_pnd
    TFU>
    TFU> Exit



    $ sh dev lta32:
    %SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available
    $ sh dev lta323:
    %SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available
    >
    >> LAT (LTAnnnn) ports/devices seems to work just fine...

    >
    > Do you have virtual terminals enabled?
    > Do you have a SET TERMINAL/FALLBACK done?
    >
    >> The docs does say that :
    >>
    >> "Note that you can use TFF only from local terminals;
    >> you cannot use terminal fallback on a remote
    >> terminal (RTAx)..."
    >>
    >> Maybe that includes TNA terminals...

    >
    > What IP stack? UCX/TCPIP? TCPware? Multinet?


    $ tcpip sh ver

    HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.6 - ECO 2
    on an AlphaStation XP900 466 MHz running OpenVMS V8.2

    $

    >
    > Have you also tried a FTA (SSH, X11 term) device?


    Nop.

    >
    > just my 0.02
    >


    Highly valued ! :-)

    Jan-Erik.

  4. Re: TFF on TNA "terminals" ?

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >Hi.
    >The docs are not 100% clear on this...
    >
    >Does TFF (Terminal Fallback facility) support
    >telnet (TNAnnnn) devices as "terminals" ?
    >
    >I get :
    >
    >%TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback
    > not supported on specified terminal
    >
    >LAT (LTAnnnn) ports/devices seems to work just fine...
    >
    >
    >The docs does say that :
    >
    >"Note that you can use TFF only from local terminals;
    > you cannot use terminal fallback on a remote
    > terminal (RTAx)..."
    >
    >Maybe that includes TNA terminals...


    The TFF can not be used on terminals with the DEV$M_RTT characteristic set.
    If you hop into SDA and issue SHOW DEVICE TNAn, you will see this:

    I/O data structures
    -------------------
    TNA6 VT300_Series UCB: 81D2FCC0

    Device status: 00000110 online,bsy
    Characteristics: 0C040007 rec,ccl,trm,avl,idv,odv
    00400204 rtt,nnm,noclu
    SUD Status 00000000

    Owner UIC [000200,000200] Operation count 60 ORB address 819A3900
    PID 000B022B Error count 0 DDB address 818DC0C0
    Class/Type 42/70 Reference count 2 DDT address 86561620
    Def. buf. size 80 BOFF 00001080 SUD address 81A82580
    DEVDEPEND 180091B0 Byte count 00001000 CRB address 818DC140
    DEVDEPND2 FB501004 SVAPTE 81D53EC0 IRP address 81BE28C0
    DEVDEPND3 00000002 DEVSTS 00000001 Fork PC 8117E510
    FLCK index 3A I/O wait queue 81D2FD2C
    DLCK address 810B7F00


    Does this preclude TNA devices from TFF? No. I just patched away the RTT
    bit and I was able to use $ MCR TFU SET TERMINAL/FALLBACK TNA6


    $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM
    ....
    SDA> READ SYSDEF
    SDA> SHOW DEVICE TNA6
    ....
    SDA> EVALUATE UCB+UCB$L_DEVCHAR2
    Hex = FFFFFFFF.81D2FD0C Decimal = -2116879092 UCB+0004C
    SDA> SPAWN RUN SYS$SHAREELTA
    OpenVMS Alpha DELTA Debugger

    Exit 00000001

    800725F4! LDQ R28,#X0008(SP)
    1;m <== enter this
    00000001
    00010001:FFFFFFFF81D2FD0C/ <== enter this
    00400204
    00400200 <== enter this
    exit <== enter this

    SDA>

    The RTT bit is now history on this terminal. You can used TFU on it now.

    A simple $CMKRNL hack can easily ZAP the UCB$L_DEVCHAR2[DEV$V_RTT] bit if
    you intend to use TFU on these terminals.

    Note that changing the RTT bit may have certain security implications but
    since you'll probably have this occur _after_ login, it may be moot. I'd
    look into this further but I don't have the time right now to do so.

    FWIW, I do this often when I format TNA devices in SDA. It makes the for-
    mat more like a local terminal.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  5. Re: TFF on TNA "terminals" ?

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote:
    >> What is the command?

    >
    >$ sh dev tna305:
    >
    >Device Device Error
    > Name Status Count
    >TNA305: Online 0
    >$
    >$ mc tfu
    >OpenVMS Terminal Fallback Facility (TFF)
    >TFU> set term/fall tna305:
    >%TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback not
    >supported on specified terminal


    What is the difference between

    $ SET TERM/FALL TNA305:
    and
    TFU> SET TERM/FALL TNA305:

    Is the first the command to enable the second?

    --
    Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER
    Network and OpenVMS system specialist
    E-mail peter@langstoeger.at
    A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist

  6. Re: TFF on TNA "terminals" ?

    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote:

    > What is the difference between
    >
    > $ SET TERM/FALL TNA305:
    > and
    > TFU> SET TERM/FALL TNA305:
    >
    > Is the first the command to enable the second?
    >


    From the TTF manual :

    "You can use the Terminal Fallback Facility by entering
    Terminal Fallback Utility (TFU) commands, described in
    this manual. The TFU supersedes the function of the
    VMS Version 4.x DCL command SET TERMINAL/FALLBACK"

  7. Re: TFF on TNA "terminals" ?

    I haven't used TFF since last century.

    Can one dynamically turn a terminal into a TFF one, of must this be done
    prior to any channels being assigned to it ?

    When you create a TNA device, does this cause a channel to be assigned
    to it to keep the device "alive" ?

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