In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
>The docs are not 100% clear on this...

Not only the docs. TFF seems a little bit out of order at all.
eg. Why is there a SYS$STARTUP:TFF$SYSTARTUP.COM, but no TFF$STARTUP.COM
(and why is it not platform independant)?

>Does TFF (Terminal Fallback facility) support
>telnet (TNAnnnn) devices as "terminals" ?

Don't know. I never used TFF

>I get :
>
>%TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback
> not supported on specified terminal

What is the command?

>LAT (LTAnnnn) ports/devices seems to work just fine...

Do you have virtual terminals enabled?
Do you have a SET TERMINAL/FALLBACK done?

>The docs does say that :
>
>"Note that you can use TFF only from local terminals;
> you cannot use terminal fallback on a remote
> terminal (RTAx)..."
>
>Maybe that includes TNA terminals...

What IP stack? UCX/TCPIP? TCPware? Multinet?

Have you also tried a FTA (SSH, X11 term) device?

just my 0.02

--
Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER
Network and OpenVMS system specialist
E-mail peter@langstoeger.at
A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist

Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote:
> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
>> The docs are not 100% clear on this...
>
> Not only the docs. TFF seems a little bit out of order at all.
> eg. Why is there a SYS$STARTUP:TFF$SYSTARTUP.COM, but no TFF$STARTUP.COM
> (and why is it not platform independant)?
>
>> Does TFF (Terminal Fallback facility) support
>> telnet (TNAnnnn) devices as "terminals" ?
>
> Don't know. I never used TFF
>
>> I get :
>>
>> %TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback
>> not supported on specified terminal
>
> What is the command?

Sorry...

---- Using a Telnet port/device:

$ sh dev tna305:

Device Device Error
Name Status Count
TNA305: Online 0
$
$ mc tfu
OpenVMS Terminal Fallback Facility (TFF)
TFU> set term/fall tna305:
%TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback not
supported on specified terminal

---- Using a LAT port/device:

$ sh dev lta23:

Device Device Error
Name Status Count
LTA23: Online 0

$ mc tfu
OpenVMS Terminal Fallback Facility (TFF)
TFU> set term/fall lta23:
TFU> sh term lta23:
TFF status for physical terminal _LTA23:

Active tables:
SWEDISH_D47 (fallback)
LATIN_1 (compose sequence validation)

Autocompose-keys (parenthesized values are character's decimal value):
None

Setable flags:
NoSuspend, Noaccept_8bit, Soft_compose, Signal, NoGR_terminal
Internal state flags:
Reset_pnd
TFU>
TFU> Exit



$ sh dev lta32:
%SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available
$ sh dev lta323:
%SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available
>
>> LAT (LTAnnnn) ports/devices seems to work just fine...
>
> Do you have virtual terminals enabled?
> Do you have a SET TERMINAL/FALLBACK done?
>
>> The docs does say that :
>>
>> "Note that you can use TFF only from local terminals;
>> you cannot use terminal fallback on a remote
>> terminal (RTAx)..."
>>
>> Maybe that includes TNA terminals...
>
> What IP stack? UCX/TCPIP? TCPware? Multinet?

$ tcpip sh ver

HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.6 - ECO 2
on an AlphaStation XP900 466 MHz running OpenVMS V8.2

$

>
> Have you also tried a FTA (SSH, X11 term) device?

Nop.

>
> just my 0.02
>

Highly valued ! :-)

Jan-Erik.

In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
>Hi.
>The docs are not 100% clear on this...
>
>Does TFF (Terminal Fallback facility) support
>telnet (TNAnnnn) devices as "terminals" ?
>
>I get :
>
>%TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback
> not supported on specified terminal
>
>LAT (LTAnnnn) ports/devices seems to work just fine...
>
>
>The docs does say that :
>
>"Note that you can use TFF only from local terminals;
> you cannot use terminal fallback on a remote
> terminal (RTAx)..."
>
>Maybe that includes TNA terminals...

The TFF can not be used on terminals with the DEV$M_RTT characteristic set.
If you hop into SDA and issue SHOW DEVICE TNAn, you will see this:

I/O data structures
-------------------
TNA6 VT300_Series UCB: 81D2FCC0

Device status: 00000110 online,bsy
Characteristics: 0C040007 rec,ccl,trm,avl,idv,odv
00400204 rtt,nnm,noclu
SUD Status 00000000

Owner UIC [000200,000200] Operation count 60 ORB address 819A3900
PID 000B022B Error count 0 DDB address 818DC0C0
Class/Type 42/70 Reference count 2 DDT address 86561620
Def. buf. size 80 BOFF 00001080 SUD address 81A82580
DEVDEPEND 180091B0 Byte count 00001000 CRB address 818DC140
DEVDEPND2 FB501004 SVAPTE 81D53EC0 IRP address 81BE28C0
DEVDEPND3 00000002 DEVSTS 00000001 Fork PC 8117E510
FLCK index 3A I/O wait queue 81D2FD2C
DLCK address 810B7F00


Does this preclude TNA devices from TFF? No. I just patched away the RTT
bit and I was able to use $ MCR TFU SET TERMINAL/FALLBACK TNA6


$ ANALYZE/SYSTEM
....
SDA> READ SYSDEF
SDA> SHOW DEVICE TNA6
....
SDA> EVALUATE UCB+UCB$L_DEVCHAR2
Hex = FFFFFFFF.81D2FD0C Decimal = -2116879092 UCB+0004C
SDA> SPAWN RUN SYS$SHAREELTA
OpenVMS Alpha DELTA Debugger

Exit 00000001

800725F4! LDQ R28,#X0008(SP)
1;m <== enter this
00000001
00010001:FFFFFFFF81D2FD0C/ <== enter this
00400204
00400200 <== enter this
exit <== enter this

SDA>

The RTT bit is now history on this terminal. You can used TFU on it now.

A simple $CMKRNL hack can easily ZAP the UCB$L_DEVCHAR2[DEV$V_RTT] bit if
you intend to use TFU on these terminals.

Note that changing the RTT bit may have certain security implications but
since you'll probably have this occur _after_ login, it may be moot. I'd
look into this further but I don't have the time right now to do so.

FWIW, I do this often when I format TNA devices in SDA. It makes the for-
mat more like a local terminal.

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

http://tmesis.com/drat.html

In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
>Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote:
>> What is the command?
>
>$ sh dev tna305:
>
>Device Device Error
> Name Status Count
>TNA305: Online 0
>$
>$ mc tfu
>OpenVMS Terminal Fallback Facility (TFF)
>TFU> set term/fall tna305:
>%TFF-E-NOSUCHTERM, No such terminal or fallback not
>supported on specified terminal

What is the difference between

$ SET TERM/FALL TNA305:
and
TFU> SET TERM/FALL TNA305:

Is the first the command to enable the second?

--
Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER
Network and OpenVMS system specialist
E-mail peter@langstoeger.at
A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist

Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote:

> What is the difference between
>
> $ SET TERM/FALL TNA305:
> and
> TFU> SET TERM/FALL TNA305:
>
> Is the first the command to enable the second?
>

From the TTF manual :

"You can use the Terminal Fallback Facility by entering
Terminal Fallback Utility (TFU) commands, described in
this manual. The TFU supersedes the function of the
VMS Version 4.x DCL command SET TERMINAL/FALLBACK"

I haven't used TFF since last century.

Can one dynamically turn a terminal into a TFF one, of must this be done
prior to any channels being assigned to it ?

When you create a TNA device, does this cause a channel to be assigned
to it to keep the device "alive" ?