Ip address blocking by country

In article <7rbq3dx59c.fsf@sjtufted.puffin.com>,
Chris Jewell <chrisj@puffin.com> writes:[color=blue]
> "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:[color=green]
>>
>> And lets not forget that NA is falling behind continents like Asia and
>> to a somewhat lesser degree, Europe in terms of IPV6 deployments.
>>
>> Apparently, China Olympics this year is based on IPV6.[/color]
> [URLs snipped][color=green]
>>
>> DoD is apparently mandating (or in the process of) a IPV6 deployment ASAP.[/color][/color]

Current DOD mandate is that new devices must support IPv6. This is
resulting in non-Cisco networking devices finding their way into more
and more systems and this will result in Cisco moving quicker to IPv6
which will, of course, result in the world moving there faster as at
this point in time Cisco is to networking what MS is to the desktop.
[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> Hence, all this discussion about blocking IPV4 addresses may not be as
>> effective as one might think.
>>
>> :-)[/color]
>
> As long as I am running IPv4 only, none of those IPv6 users are going
> to be able to spam me, because they have no way to get their packets
> to me, (unless through an email forwarder whose IPv4 address I can
> still block).[/color]
IPv4 vs. IPv6 is not an email (SMTP) issue. There are and have been
IPv4 <-> IPv6 gateways running for quite some time. We (my civilian
job) have had an IPv6 allocation for several years now. We ran it for
a while to test it out but stopped as it bought us nothing at this point
in time. But I can see INTERNET-II going to it before the rest of the
world.
[color=blue]
> I'm sure we'll all have IPv6 connectivity some decade
> or other, but I'm not holding my breath. :-P[/color]

It will be here sooner than t you think and probably before your ready!!
These things have a bad habit of sneaking up on you. (Anybody else here
remmeber when the default TTL was 64 and the morning that number was
exceeeded in practice!! :-)

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
[color=blue]
> There is no such thing as a "USA IP address". IP is not now and never
> has been geographic.[/color]


A WHOIS on an IP reveaks the head-offce of the owner of that IP block.
If you do a WHOIS on certain IPs used in australia, they point to some
address in texas.

More importantly, IP blocks are geographical. an IP block is managed by
one of the big management agencies such as ARIN (north america), RIPE
(europe), APNIC (asia pacific) and there is one of two more if I am not
mistaken.

This does not mean that that all of their IPs have been assigned to
companies within their geography, but it generally does work that way.

Bill Gunshannon wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <4826027d$0$20536$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:[color=green]
>> Michael Moroney wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Allocations by country are widely scattered.[/color]
>>
>>
>> It gets worse. At least one ISP in Australia is owned by a large
>> telecom firm in the USA, and they are handing out USA IP addresses
>> to their australian customers. (ozemail if I remember right).[/color]
>
>
> There is no such thing as a "USA IP address". IP is not now and never
> has been geographic.
>
> bill[/color]

I am clueless on these matters. But one of the things that REALLY irritates
me is websites that interrogate my IP, make wild assumptions about what my
geographical location is (usually based on the IP) and then proceed to give
me a site in the language of the country it thinks I am in.

This is the wrong answer in 100% of cases.

We had France Telecom as our infrastructure provider at a Dutch client I was
working at. Websites constantly changed to French. So ****ing irritating,
and often not something easily bypassed.

I blame it all on the M$ - "We alone know what is good for you" mentality of
systems development. M$ products are by far the worst in this case, often
interrogating the keyboard to determine the language of a machine ?!?!?

But I digress ...

Dweeb

In article <4826efcd$0$315$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>,
"CyberCityNews" <dr@dweeb.spam> writes:[color=blue]
> Bill Gunshannon wrote:[color=green]
>> In article <4826027d$0$20536$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
>> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:[color=darkred]
>>> Michael Moroney wrote:
>>>
>>>> Allocations by country are widely scattered.
>>>
>>>
>>> It gets worse. At least one ISP in Australia is owned by a large
>>> telecom firm in the USA, and they are handing out USA IP addresses
>>> to their australian customers. (ozemail if I remember right).[/color]
>>
>>
>> There is no such thing as a "USA IP address". IP is not now and never
>> has been geographic.
>>
>> bill[/color]
>
> I am clueless on these matters. But one of the things that REALLY irritates
> me is websites that interrogate my IP, make wild assumptions about what my
> geographical location is (usually based on the IP) and then proceed to give
> me a site in the language of the country it thinks I am in.[/color]

My point exactly!! From where I sit right now I can use the local address
(Augusta, GA) or with one click on my desktop I fire up my VPN and I am back
in Pennsylvania. So, how can a remote site tell me what my local weather is?
And, of course, on USENET I am in Berlin. :-)
[color=blue]
>
> This is the wrong answer in 100% of cases.[/color]

Well, I wouldn't say that (even a blind hog etc. etc. etc.) but it is a
really stupid assumption on their part.
[color=blue]
>
> We had France Telecom as our infrastructure provider at a Dutch client I was
> working at. Websites constantly changed to French. So ****ing irritating,
> and often not something easily bypassed.
>
> I blame it all on the M$ - "We alone know what is good for you" mentality of
> systems development. M$ products are by far the worst in this case, often
> interrogating the keyboard to determine the language of a machine ?!?!?[/color]

I don't think, in this case, MS shares any of the blame. The blame lies
squarely on the shoulders of the large number of "professionals" running
networks and servers who have not got the slightest clue how any of this
really works. I actually know people who teach this stuff and don't know
the difference between TCP and UDP and when you explain it they still don't
understand why you would use one over the other.
[color=blue]
>
> But I digress ...[/color]

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel about it. :-)

bill


--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
[email]billg999@cs.scranton.edu[/email] | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

In article <5bCUj.488$Xv3.369@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner,
Island Computers" <dturner@islandco.com> writes:
[color=blue]
> Wrong NG?
> maybe but I know people here are well versed in this.
>
> IP blocking.
> Is this done on a regular basis?
> Thought someone here would be able to answer.[/color]
[color=blue]
> Comments?!?![/color]

After doing a lot of stuff by hand, I started using spamhaus.org. Check
it out. If you configure TCPIP services to send a sensible message when
the blocking takes place (perhaps a URL pointing to a full description
of the problem, its cause and what the user should do), no real user,
who is not spamming, has a real reason to complain.

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
[color=blue]
> I don't think, in this case, MS shares any of the blame. The blame lies
> squarely on the shoulders of the large number of "professionals" running
> networks and servers who have not got the slightest clue how any of this
> really works.[/color]

In many#most cases, corporate web sites are controlled by a non
technical deaprtment (marketing for instance). Marketing has heard that
you can provide localised content based on user's location, so they
instruct their technical department to implement geolocation to provide
localised content (and perhaps localised advertising).

Remember that those companies that provide geolocation services have
nifty powerpoint presentations that will convince the marketing people
that their company MUST buy those geolocation services otherwise, they
will lag begin their competitors.


This irony is that this goes against the whole core meaning of http:
WORLD WIDE WEB, emphasis on the first 2 words.

Personally, I feel that sites that use geolocation to prevent use should
not be allowed to use .COM or .ORG , they should have a country specific
name.

Since the USA networks prevent people from outside the USA from viewing
their programs, they should be [url]www.cbs.us[/url], [url]www.nbc.us[/url] etc.

itunes is even more frustrating. It doesn't even tell you that it can't
show you a certain song because of you location, it just tells you it
doesn't have it, even though on the web you know they have it bcause it
is available in other countries.

CyberCityNews wrote:[color=blue]
> I am clueless on these matters. But one of the things that REALLY irritates
> me is websites that interrogate my IP, make wild assumptions about what my
> geographical location is (usually based on the IP) and then proceed to give
> me a site in the language of the country it thinks I am in.
>
> This is the wrong answer in 100% of cases.
>
> We had France Telecom as our infrastructure provider at a Dutch client I was
> working at. Websites constantly changed to French. So ****ing irritating,
> and often not something easily bypassed.
>
> I blame it all on the M$ - "We alone know what is good for you" mentality of
> systems development. M$ products are by far the worst in this case, often
> interrogating the keyboard to determine the language of a machine ?!?!?[/color]

It is a good feature if you have visitors that does not read
english.

It enables them to get a page they can read.

But it only has 95-99% accuracy. One of the problems is
company PC that is connected to the internet via a firewall
in another country.

Arne

PS: For those interested there are two other purposes that often
causes IP based geolocation to be used. Redirecting to closest
download mirror for optimal network usage. Check for whether
access to site is legal.

JF Mezei wrote:[color=blue]
> In many#most cases, corporate web sites are controlled by a non
> technical deaprtment (marketing for instance). Marketing has heard that
> you can provide localised content based on user's location, so they
> instruct their technical department to implement geolocation to provide
> localised content (and perhaps localised advertising).
>
> Remember that those companies that provide geolocation services have
> nifty powerpoint presentations that will convince the marketing people
> that their company MUST buy those geolocation services otherwise, they
> will lag begin their competitors.[/color]

Someone probably also use the free alternatives !
[color=blue]
> This irony is that this goes against the whole core meaning of http:
> WORLD WIDE WEB, emphasis on the first 2 words.
>
> Personally, I feel that sites that use geolocation to prevent use should
> not be allowed to use .COM or .ORG , they should have a country specific
> name.[/color]

Geolocation (unless used to block access based on legal restrictions)
is about serving the entire world - just serving it differently.

It is not obvious to me why a .COM site must serve the same
content to all customers and require the customers to
understand english.

Arne

Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
[color=blue]
> After doing a lot of stuff by hand, I started using spamhaus.org.[/color]

The problem with RBLs is that they react to two items:

-known spamming IPs. This takes time to react.
-ISP's provided list of dynamic IPs.

In the case of china and other spam-happy countries, if the ISPs don't
provide the list of dynamic IPs that shouldn't be sending mail, then the
RBLs can't add those IPs to their list of dynamic IPs not meant to send
mail.

JF Mezei wrote:
[color=blue]
> It gets worse. At least one ISP in Australia is owned by a large telecom
> firm in the USA, and they are handing out USA IP addresses to their
> australian customers. (ozemail if I remember right).[/color]

IP addresses don't belong to countries, but are allocated through
ISPs (usually). With multinational organizations and private
networks an IP range can easily cross countries or continents.

A global ISP would allocate to many countries.

-- glen

glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:[color=blue]
> JF Mezei wrote:[color=green]
>> It gets worse. At least one ISP in Australia is owned by a large telecom
>> firm in the USA, and they are handing out USA IP addresses to their
>> australian customers. (ozemail if I remember right).[/color]
>
> IP addresses don't belong to countries, but are allocated through
> ISPs (usually). With multinational organizations and private
> networks an IP range can easily cross countries or continents.
>
> A global ISP would allocate to many countries.[/color]

True, but IP to country databases do exist.

With a 95-99% reliability.

Arne

In article <4826efcd$0$315$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>,
"CyberCityNews" <dr@dweeb.spam> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I am clueless on these matters. But one of the things that REALLY irritates
> me is websites that interrogate my IP, make wild assumptions about what my
> geographical location is (usually based on the IP) and then proceed to give
> me a site in the language of the country it thinks I am in.
>
> This is the wrong answer in 100% of cases.[/color]

This is particularly frustrating when trying to dig up support
documentation for someone on a different continent. Or in my case (in
Switzerland) a different part of the same country... A couple of years
ago I had a very real fight to get URLs for Google help in English for
someone on this news group.
[color=blue]
> We had France Telecom as our infrastructure provider at a Dutch client I was
> working at. Websites constantly changed to French. So ****ing irritating,
> and often not something easily bypassed.
>
> I blame it all on the M$ - "We alone know what is good for you" mentality of
> systems development. M$ products are by far the worst in this case, often
> interrogating the keyboard to determine the language of a machine ?!?!?[/color]

Not just M$ products. I am currently evaluating a third party software
application for my Mac which has German and French language support. To
enable the French version, you have to change the system wide language
preferences so that French comes above German. Yep, it works, but doing
that had the unexpected side effect of switching at least one other
application from English (my default) to French.
[color=blue]
> But I digress ...[/color]

To digress further. I sorted out international date formats about 25
years ago for layered software on VMS (think ease of data entry via the
numeric keypad). It's a bit more complex than the D/M/Y versus M/D/Y
thing, and on the OS X platform it looks like I have to revisit that
area, possibly rolling my own solution again (Yuk). An initial foray
into this area shows that Apple have deprecated a load of UTC routines,
so that's at least one avenue I don't want to go down.

Rant over (for now;.) )

--
Paul Sture

Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
[url]http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html[/url]

In article <482775a0$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Geolocation (unless used to block access based on legal restrictions)
> is about serving the entire world - just serving it differently.
>
> It is not obvious to me why a .COM site must serve the same
> content to all customers and require the customers to
> understand english.[/color]

While I agree with those sentiments, I don't want to be _forced_ to my
local language. By all means offer it as a default, but let me then
select the language most appropriate for the audience I may be
addressing.

--
Paul Sture

Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
[url]http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html[/url]

"Arne Vajhøj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message
news:482774c3$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
[color=blue]
> It is a good feature if you have visitors that does not read english.
>
> It enables them to get a page they can read.[/color]

Maybe. It does ignore the fact that there is a perfectly good mechanism in
HTTP to list your preferred languages. Substituting what the client actually
asked for with your guess does have the risk of annoying people who know
what they are doing.

In article <paul.sture.nospam-283E9A.12045905062008@mac.sture.ch>, "P. Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:[color=blue]
>
> While I agree with those sentiments, I don't want to be _forced_ to my
> local language. By all means offer it as a default, but let me then
> select the language most appropriate for the audience I may be
> addressing.
>[/color]

Of course, for Switzerland, the concept of the "local language" is an
especially interesting concept when applied to the country as a whole.

Paul, do any of the IP location services attempt to break down Switzerland
by region ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, [email]clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP[/email]
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

In article <5mPfFExyjGTQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, [email]clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP[/email] (Simon Clubley) writes:[color=blue]
> In article <paul.sture.nospam-283E9A.12045905062008@mac.sture.ch>, "P. Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:[color=green]
>>
>> While I agree with those sentiments, I don't want to be _forced_ to my
>> local language. By all means offer it as a default, but let me then
>> select the language most appropriate for the audience I may be
>> addressing.
>>[/color]
>
> Of course, for Switzerland, the concept of the "local language" is an
> especially interesting concept when applied to the country as a whole.
>
> Paul, do any of the IP location services attempt to break down Switzerland
> by region ?
>[/color]

Or to phrase my question in a less ambiguous way :-), do any of the websites
that set the language based on location, attempt to break down Switzerland
by region ?

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, [email]clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP[/email]
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

P. Sture wrote:[color=blue]
> In article <482775a0$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:[color=green]
>> Geolocation (unless used to block access based on legal restrictions)
>> is about serving the entire world - just serving it differently.
>>
>> It is not obvious to me why a .COM site must serve the same
>> content to all customers and require the customers to
>> understand english.[/color]
>
> While I agree with those sentiments, I don't want to be _forced_ to my
> local language. By all means offer it as a default, but let me then
> select the language most appropriate for the audience I may be
> addressing.[/color]

I agree 100% with that.

Arne