What systems can use USB? - VMS

This is a discussion on What systems can use USB? - VMS ; I just found my stash of USB 2.0 cards. What systems will work with a USB 2.0 PCI card? I gather they should work in my XP1000's, but what about something like my AlphaStation 200 4/233's? This would be while ...

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  1. What systems can use USB?

    I just found my stash of USB 2.0 cards. What systems will work with a USB
    2.0 PCI card? I gather they should work in my XP1000's, but what
    about something like my AlphaStation 200 4/233's? This would be while
    running OpenVMS 8.3.

    Zane





  2. Re: What systems can use USB?

    heal...@aracnet.com wrote:
    > I just found my stash of USB 2.0 cards. What systems will work with a USB
    > 2.0 PCI card? I gather they should work in my XP1000's, but what
    > about something like my AlphaStation 200 4/233's? This would be while
    > running OpenVMS 8.3.


    A better question might be, "Which USB cards will work in an Alpha
    VMS V8.3 system?" As it's likely that no such cards are supported in
    either system, and you've provided no identification for the cards,
    you'll probably need to run the experimant, in any case.

    I stopped using my AlpSta 200 4/233 systems before I got my USB
    cards, and their PCI slots were filled with graphics and network
    cards,
    so I was never tempted to try a USB card there.

    SMS.

  3. Re: What systems can use USB?

    sms.antinode@gmail.com wrote:
    > A better question might be, "Which USB cards will work in an Alpha
    > VMS V8.3 system?" As it's likely that no such cards are supported in
    > either system, and you've provided no identification for the cards,
    > you'll probably need to run the experimant, in any case.


    Based on what I was able to Google, it looks like the main thing is that you
    have the right chip on the card, and I've plenty of different ones with the
    right card.

    > I stopped using my AlpSta 200 4/233 systems before I got my USB
    > cards, and their PCI slots were filled with graphics and network
    > cards,
    > so I was never tempted to try a USB card there.


    Good point, there are only two slots in the AlphaStation 200 4/233 aren't
    there. I've been wanting to get one back online as a desktop, but the
    second XP1000 is a more practical desktop, and I believe I have a better
    graphics adapter for it. Somehow the 200's are better headless, that way
    you have one slot for network, the other for a faster SCSI adapter.

    Zane


  4. Re: What systems can use USB?

    On May 5, 2:05 pm, heal...@aracnet.com wrote:
    > sms.antin...@gmail.com wrote:
    > > A better question might be, "Which USB cards will work in an Alpha
    > > VMS V8.3 system?" As it's likely that no such cards are supported in
    > > either system, and you've provided no identification for the cards,
    > > you'll probably need to run the experimant, in any case.

    >
    > Based on what I was able to Google, it looks like the main thing is that you
    > have the right chip on the card, and I've plenty of different ones with the
    > right card.
    >
    > > I stopped using my AlpSta 200 4/233 systems before I got my USB
    > > cards, and their PCI slots were filled with graphics and network
    > > cards,
    > > so I was never tempted to try a USB card there.

    >
    > Good point, there are only two slots in the AlphaStation 200 4/233 aren't
    > there. I've been wanting to get one back online as a desktop, but the
    > second XP1000 is a more practical desktop, and I believe I have a better
    > graphics adapter for it. Somehow the 200's are better headless, that way
    > you have one slot for network, the other for a faster SCSI adapter.
    >
    > Zane


    You might try doing a google group search on FORREST KENNEY USB to see
    the posts by the master of VMS USB stuff. I don't have time to
    preview but I'd bet you can find answers there.

    Rich

  5. Re: What systems can use USB?

    On May 4, 9:31*pm, heal...@aracnet.com wrote:
    > I just found my stash of USB 2.0 cards. *What systems will work with a USB
    > 2.0 PCI card? *I gather they should work in my XP1000's, but what
    > about something like my AlphaStation 200 4/233's? *This would be while
    > running OpenVMS 8.3.


    All electronic systems can work with USB. Since it's the main way
    to keep
    people with line printers from consuming your entire company
    budget.
    So it's mosty a matter of building the card.


    >
    > Zane



  6. Re: What systems can use USB?

    zzbunker@netscape.net wrote:
    > All electronic systems can work with USB.


    Not the DS10 class of Alpha servers. Their USB hardware is crippled and
    non-functional.

    Also, for those VMS systems that have functioning USB hardware, what
    real software support is there in VMS ?

    Can VMS mount, read, write FAT/FAT32 formatted USB sticks ?

    How many cameras/telephones can be connected to VMS with some actual
    functionality ? (aka: not just: "yeah, the driver sees some phone device
    on the USB bus").


    Or is the goal for VMS to just provide the foundation so that
    individuals can then build their own applications ? (aka, some
    manufacturing plant writing code to control some USB robot)

  7. Re: What systems can use USB?

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > zzbunker@netscape.net wrote:
    > > All electronic systems can work with USB.

    >
    > Not the DS10 class of Alpha servers. Their USB hardware is crippled and
    > non-functional.


    So add a $10 Chinese USB PCI card with the right chip.

    > Also, for those VMS systems that have functioning USB hardware, what
    > real software support is there in VMS ?


    Define "real".

    > Can VMS mount, read, write FAT/FAT32 formatted USB sticks ?


    Plain "VMS" may not, but with a little software, many things
    are possible.

    alp $ show devi /full dna6

    Disk ALP$DNA6:, device type USB 2.0 Flash Disk , is online, file-
    oriented
    device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.

    Error count 0 Operations
    completed 49
    Owner process "" Owner UIC
    [SYSTEM]
    Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot
    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W
    Reference count 0 Default buffer
    size 512
    Total blocks 1981439 Sectors per
    track 37
    Total cylinders 1410 Tracks per
    cylinder 38

    alp $ mtools -c mdir -s v:
    MTOOLS_V (_ALP$DNA6 mounted.
    Volume in drive V has no label
    Volume Serial Number is 18DB-2D40
    Directory for V:/

    TRASHE~1 2007-10-30 0:01 .Trashes
    DPP 2007-10-30 0:10
    DS_STO~1 6148 2007-12-25 12:13 .DS_Store
    SYMAN 2007-12-11 17:52
    linksys 2007-12-24 23:56 linksys
    5 files 6 148 bytes

    Directory for V:/.Trashes

    .. 2007-12-25 12:34
    ... 2007-10-30 0:01
    2 files 0 bytes
    [...]

    > How many cameras/telephones can be connected to VMS with some actual
    > functionality ? (aka: not just: "yeah, the driver sees some phone device
    > on the USB bus").


    At least one camera:

    ALP2 $ show devi /full DNA5

    Disk ALP2$DNA5:, device type NIKON DSC COOLPIX L11 , is online, file-
    oriented
    device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.

    Error count 0 Operations
    completed 27
    Owner process "" Owner UIC
    [SYSTEM]
    Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot
    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W
    Reference count 0 Default buffer
    size 512
    Total blocks 1999871 Sectors per
    track 37
    Total cylinders 1423 Tracks per
    cylinder 38

    ALP2 $ mtools -c mdir -s w:
    MTOOLS_W (_ALP2$DNA5 mounted.
    Volume in drive W has no label
    Volume Serial Number is 0000-0000
    Directory for W:/

    DCIM 2008-02-07 22:53
    MISC 2008-02-07 22:53
    2 files 0 bytes

    Directory for W:/DCIM

    .. 2008-02-07 22:53
    ... 2008-02-07 22:53
    100NIKON 2008-02-07 23:12
    3 files 0 bytes

    Directory for W:/DCIM/100NIKON

    .. 2008-02-07 23:12
    ... 2008-02-07 23:12
    DSCN0004 JPG 1501580 2008-02-07 23:15
    3 files 1 501 580 bytes

    Directory for W:/MISC
    [...]

    > Or is the goal for VMS to just provide the foundation so that
    > individuals can then build their own applications ? (aka, some
    > manufacturing plant writing code to control some USB robot)


    Some days I think that it serves mainly to elicit foolish
    complaints from ill-informed whiners.

    SMS.

  8. Re: What systems can use USB?

    In article <481fd363$0$7283$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >
    > Not the DS10 class of Alpha servers. Their USB hardware is crippled and
    > non-functional.


    You can get USB cards that will plug into and work on DS10 and
    DS10L under VMS.

    > Also, for those VMS systems that have functioning USB hardware, what
    > real software support is there in VMS ?


    Same as any disk, from what I hear.

    > Can VMS mount, read, write FAT/FAT32 formatted USB sticks ?


    Just like floppies, there are tools for accessing FAT formatted USB
    sticks, or you can put Files-11 on them.

    > How many cameras/telephones can be connected to VMS with some actual
    > functionality ? (aka: not just: "yeah, the driver sees some phone device
    > on the USB bus").


    Although I have lots of fancy gadgets for accessing my camera over
    USB, probaly my favorite way to get what I want instead of what some
    one else thought I want, is to access it as a USB drive.

    > Or is the goal for VMS to just provide the foundation so that
    > individuals can then build their own applications ? (aka, some
    > manufacturing plant writing code to control some USB robot)


    Since HP no longer sees VMS as a desktop platform, they have little
    reason to add cameras and such to its USB support. That's their
    mistake. VMS has been stitting on my desktop for a great many
    years now, and will continue to do so.


  9. Re: What systems can use USB?

    On May 5, 11:39*pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    > zzbun...@netscape.net wrote:
    > > * *All electronic systems can work with USB.

    >
    > Not the DS10 class of Alpha servers. Their USB hardware is crippled and
    > non-functional.
    >
    > Also, for those VMS systems that have functioning USB hardware, what
    > real software support is there in VMS ?
    >
    > Can VMS *mount, read, write *FAT/FAT32 formatted USB sticks ?
    >
    > How many cameras/telephones can be connected to VMS with some actual
    > functionality ? (aka: not just: "yeah, the driver sees some phone device
    > on the USB bus").


    Not many with VMS, since phone networks
    mosty depend on touch-tone, rather than phones.
    And cameras mostly mostly depend on teaching
    artists how to use CCD, rather than cameras.



    > Or is the goal for VMS to just provide the foundation so that
    > individuals can then build their own applications ? (aka, some
    > manufacturing plant writing code to control some USB robot)



  10. Re: What systems can use USB?


    "Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    news:JA4gI6bdr2t3@eisner.encompasserve.org...
    > In article <481fd363$0$7283$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei
    > writes:
    >>
    >> Not the DS10 class of Alpha servers. Their USB hardware is crippled and
    >> non-functional.

    >
    > You can get USB cards that will plug into and work on DS10 and
    > DS10L under VMS.
    >


    The USB hardware on the DS10 did not work. As there was no business
    requirement for it to work, it was decided not to try and fix it.


    >> Also, for those VMS systems that have functioning USB hardware, what
    >> real software support is there in VMS ?

    >
    > Same as any disk, from what I hear.
    >


    USB supports KB and Mouse on EV7

    On Itanium it supports KB, Mouse, Serial muxes, and specific DVD drives.

    What "works" is different than what is supported. On both
    Alpha/Integrity...

    KB, Mouse, disks, serial muxes, joysticks, printers, and a host of other
    things.


    >> Can VMS mount, read, write FAT/FAT32 formatted USB sticks ?

    >
    > Just like floppies, there are tools for accessing FAT formatted USB
    > sticks, or you can put Files-11 on them.
    >


    Correct.

    >> How many cameras/telephones can be connected to VMS with some actual
    >> functionality ? (aka: not just: "yeah, the driver sees some phone device
    >> on the USB bus").

    >
    > Although I have lots of fancy gadgets for accessing my camera over
    > USB, probaly my favorite way to get what I want instead of what some
    > one else thought I want, is to access it as a USB drive.
    >


    The USB stack does not currently support isochronous connections - which are
    needed for a live camera or phone. Nor have we written a driver to support
    either - as they are complex and there is no business reason to try and
    support one.

    >> Or is the goal for VMS to just provide the foundation so that
    >> individuals can then build their own applications ? (aka, some
    >> manufacturing plant writing code to control some USB robot)

    >
    > Since HP no longer sees VMS as a desktop platform, they have little
    > reason to add cameras and such to its USB support. That's their
    > mistake. VMS has been stitting on my desktop for a great many
    > years now, and will continue to do so.
    >


    In SYS$EXAMPLES there is code that shows you how to use the "generic" USB
    driver. The generic USB driver knows how to unpack the data and pass it to
    the device - but has no idea about the device. You write an application
    that knows what to do. Forrest provided this long ago. I believe both the
    example code and documentation ship in sys$examples.

    The "desktop" wars ended years ago. Windows won. The UNIX workstation
    market collapsed. As a consolation prize, Linux PC's are available for
    those who crave a UNIX desktop.

    The X11 "desktop" as far as we are concerned is just a required giblet. We
    need it for JAVA and web based things. The desktop itself doesn't have to
    be a VMS system. Sometimes the best desktop system is a thin client or a
    Linux PC. So expect to see us do more work on better integration with
    remote desktops.

    Local VMS "bus" graphics will continue to exist on most systems. But there
    is no desire/interest to try to compete with Windows/Linux in desktop
    software.

    But - if you come in and tell us that you will buy 1,000 RX2620's, but it
    depends on supporting a USB camera... I'm sure we can accomodate you
    somehow. It's all about what paying customers want. We are working on
    audible alarm support (basic sound card support - not MMOV) because a
    customer came in and explained the business case, and we agreed. Not
    because JF thinks it's cool. But because there is a business case. For a
    number of devices, we have facilitated getting a 3rd party to support it
    where the volume is low and the card isn't from HP.

    There are lots of things that users are just as capable of doing on their
    own as we are. Go out and grab your favorite unsupported card. Find the
    open source driver - write a VMS driver for it. I'm sure the hobbyist
    community will be thrilled.






  11. Re: What systems can use USB?

    Bob Koehler wrote:

    > [...] I
    > don't recall where, but I actually saw a recommendation for a
    > three-function card for a DS10L that would provide USB, graphics,
    > and a storage expansion bus for a hobbyist.


    Perhaps you "actually saw" a reference to a (very rare and
    expensive) Ethernet+graphics+SCSI card.

    http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/q.../10679_na.HTML

  12. Re: What systems can use USB?

    In article , "FredK" writes:
    >
    > "Bob Koehler" wrote in message
    >>
    >> You can get USB cards that will plug into and work on DS10 and
    >> DS10L under VMS.
    >>

    >
    > The USB hardware on the DS10 did not work. As there was no business
    > requirement for it to work, it was decided not to try and fix it.


    The built-in USB doesn't work. I was refering to add-on cards. I
    don't recall where, but I actually saw a recommendation for a
    three-function card for a DS10L that would provide USB, graphics,
    and a storage expansion bus for a hobbyist.



  13. Re: OT: Desktop wars

    In article <482414f8$0$31195$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >FredK wrote:
    >
    >> The "desktop" wars ended years ago. Windows won. The UNIX workstation
    >> market collapsed. As a consolation prize, Linux PC's are available for
    >> those who crave a UNIX desktop.

    >
    >
    >I suspect Mark Shuttleworth, head cheese for Ubuntu would disagree with
    >you. Ubuntu is under very active development and for a relatively new
    >solution, has a very impressive list of available software, incluidng
    >Adobe PDF viewer. VMS has had X windows for 20 or so years and all it
    >has is the old XPDF utility (that doesn't even come with VMS). VMS *had*
    >a great word processor (DECwrite) at the time, but Digital didn't even
    >try to price/sell it to normal offices.


    Windows is eroding from the linux (Ubuntu and other variants) and Mac OS X
    both which are unix/unix like. I've put Ubuntu up on 3 machines over the
    past month -- one was an old DEC HiNote. The only difficulty was getting
    the sound working in the HiNote. I finally discovered the control port ad-
    dress in a Weendoze .INI file on the original DEC supplied configuration CD.
    That was probably not something for the typical user to tackle but the other
    installs were quite simple. Ubuntu interface is quite aestetically pleasing
    and easy to navigate unlike that Redmond offering with the teletubbies back-
    ground (I keep waiting for them to pop up and start dancing when I see that
    background). The Open Office apps are installed by default and my son has
    been using them for his homework assignments. I've been running about with
    a Compaq Evo N610c (2.4GHz P4, 1MB mem, 80GB drive, 802.11b/g internal wire-
    less -- which I installed after removing the micro-PCI 56K modem card, and
    a Sprint EVDO card) which I sniped off eBay for $100 including shipping. I
    can do most everything I need to do on the road with it allowing me to keep
    my 17" Powerbook safely at home. I'd rather lose a $100 piece of crap over
    a $3K Powerbook.

    I purchased my Mac (A 17" Powerbook) because I could use it to access VMS as
    an X server. It still runs well and serves me well. I have several PeeCees
    here which were given to my by companies to run their Weendoze only product
    interfaces. All of them have been rendered useless by viruses or hardware
    failure. Those that were shipped here with Weendoze and didn't die from a
    hardware failure (only one with a Tyan Thunderbolt motherboard, dual PII and
    SCSI) now run Linux.



    >"The Mac in the Gray Flannel Suit".
    >More office workers infatuated with iPods and iPhones are demanding
    >Macs. Is business ready? Is Apple?
    >
    >
    >
    >Remember that Apple started with essentially nothing left, and came out
    >with a totally new operating systems (OS-X) in roughly 2001. They now
    >have over 8% of the PC market.
    >
    >
    >Apple doesn't even (yet) try to get into enterprise. Yet, they now have
    >over 2% of the market without even trying. I bet that is far more than
    >what VMS has, and VMS' last remainng stance is the enterprise market.
    >
    >
    >Now, Imagine if Sue were hired by Apple to head an "enterprise" division
    >? She'd have no problems getting disasffected HP customers to move from
    >VMS to OS-X.


    I spoke this week with a company with a VMS solution. They are being asked
    more and more to support Macs over Weendoze.



    >Demographic trends may be on Apple's side. All those college kids
    >wielding iPods have created a deep pool of potential Mac users.
    >According to a survey of 1,200 undergrads by researcher Student Monitor
    >this year, 43% of college students who intend to buy a laptop plan to
    >buy a Mac, up from 8% in 2003. "Many of today's technology
    >decision-makers will ultimately be replaced by Mac users," says Eric
    >Weil, managing partner of Student Monitor.


    I hosted some of my friends from around the world over the past 2 weeks --
    UK, DK and OK. I took them around to see the sights. One day, in need of
    bladder relief, I took them to the most ornate tiolets I know to urinate --
    the bathroom of Wilson Hall on the Monmouth University campus (my old alma
    matter and it was along the way). I noticed that most of the students that
    passed us by were toting Macs. In fact, I only spied 1 Dell laptop during
    the time we were on the campus. Perhaps there is hope with this next gener-
    ation after all.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  14. Re: OT: Desktop wars

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > FredK wrote:
    >
    >> The "desktop" wars ended years ago. Windows won. The UNIX workstation
    >> market collapsed. As a consolation prize, Linux PC's are available for
    >> those who crave a UNIX desktop.

    >
    >
    > I suspect Mark Shuttleworth, head cheese for Ubuntu would disagree with
    > you. Ubuntu is under very active development and for a relatively new
    > solution, has a very impressive list of available software, incluidng
    > Adobe PDF viewer. VMS has had X windows for 20 or so years and all it
    > has is the old XPDF utility (that doesn't even come with VMS). VMS *had*
    > a great word processor (DECwrite) at the time, but Digital didn't even
    > try to price/sell it to normal offices.
    >
    > Just because the owners of VMS decided to not even maintain a presence
    > in the workstation market (and under Palmer, go much further by agreeing
    > to cannabalise its own products to please Bill Gates) does not mean
    > that Dec couldn't have had a decent presence in the desktop.
    >
    > Had Dec made its workstations with decwrite etc affordable right off the
    > bat,


    Get serious! DEC was not interested in "affordable". "All the traffic
    will bear plus 50%" seems to have been their objective. They wanted a
    piece of the mainframe market and couldn't see that "the desktop is
    where it's at!"

  15. Re: What systems can use USB?


    "FredK" wrote in message
    news:fvqmtf$6ao$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
    >


    > The "desktop" wars ended years ago. Windows won. The UNIX workstation
    > market collapsed. As a consolation prize, Linux PC's are available for
    > those who crave a UNIX desktop.
    >


    Two years ago, few people would have disagreed with you that Windows won.
    Times can change though.

    In particular the much-delayed arrival of Vista (and the associated Office
    "upgrades") changes things. Vista's "success" in the market (no one sensible
    buys it unless they have to) shows that even Microsoft's monopoly isn't
    necessarily forever. No sensible and informed person chooses to buy it
    retail. Many folks are force-fed Vista on new PCs, but some major PC vendors
    are still offering routes to Windows XP either discreetly or blatantly,
    depending on how Microsoft-dependent they are, and in the corporate world,
    any pre-loaded Vista is often immediately overwritten with the local
    standard image of XP or in some cases Win2K, and there's no corporate plan
    to upgrade the installed base to Vista.

    Even MS's Ballmer has said that they'd be crazy not to extend the life of XP
    if customers preferred it to Vista. The MS spin machine went into full
    denial mode immediately afterwards, but the damage had been done. E.g.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...stomer_demand/

    There's going to be a lot of Windows out there for the foreseeable future,
    but probably less in % terms than they're used to.

    Regards
    John



  16. Re: What systems can use USB?

    In article , "John Wallace" writes:
    >
    > In particular the much-delayed arrival of Vista (and the associated Office
    > "upgrades") changes things. Vista's "success" in the market (no one sensible
    > buys it unless they have to) shows that even Microsoft's monopoly isn't
    > necessarily forever.


    The only people I know of who have Vista and/or the new Office are
    kids at my daughter's college who were clueless when the bought new
    PCs for their frosh year.


  17. Re: What systems can use USB?

    On May 9, 1:22*pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article , "John Wallace" writes:
    >
    > > In particular the much-delayed arrival of Vista (and the associated Office
    > > "upgrades") changes things. Vista's "success" in the market (no one sensible
    > > buys it unless they have to) shows that even Microsoft's monopoly isn't
    > > necessarily forever.

    >
    > * *The only people I know of who have Vista and/or the new Office are
    > * *kids at my daughter's college who were clueless when the bought new
    > * *PCs for their frosh year.


    My daughter works for a big accounting firm. Used to be one of the
    big 8, but after fall of Arthur Anderson, its <8 now. They're
    starting to migratre all their users to Vista.

    Dave...

  18. Re: OT: Desktop wars

    In article <482414f8$0$31195$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
    JF Mezei writes:
    >
    > Remember that Apple started with essentially nothing left, and came out
    > with a totally new operating systems (OS-X) in roughly 2001.


    Since when is OS-X "a totally new operating system"? That would be
    like me repackaging Slackware, calling it "Bill-OS V5.0" and claiming
    it was "a totally new operating system"!!

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  19. Re: OT: Desktop wars

    On May 10, 9:39 am, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    > In article <482414f8$0$31195$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>,
    > JF Mezei writes:
    > > Remember that Apple started with essentially nothing left, and came out
    > > with a totally new operating systems (OS-X) in roughly 2001.

    >
    > Since when is OS-X "a totally new operating system"? That would be
    > like me repackaging Slackware, calling it "Bill-OS V5.0" and claiming
    > it was "a totally new operating system"!!
    >


    Close, but not quite. It would be like you repackaging Slackware and
    then writing the equivalent of Gnome or KDE and calling it Bill-OS
    V5.0. Aqua, the Apple GUI (plus a lot of utilities) is theirs and
    they wrote it themselves (maybe some came from NEXT? I'm not sure).

    But you're right. Calling it a "totally new operating system" is a
    stretch.

  20. Re: OT: Desktop wars

    In article ,
    "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" writes:
    > On May 10, 9:39 am, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> In article <482414f8$0$31195$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>,
    >> JF Mezei writes:
    >> > Remember that Apple started with essentially nothing left, and came out
    >> > with a totally new operating systems (OS-X) in roughly 2001.

    >>
    >> Since when is OS-X "a totally new operating system"? That would be
    >> like me repackaging Slackware, calling it "Bill-OS V5.0" and claiming
    >> it was "a totally new operating system"!!
    >>

    >
    > Close, but not quite. It would be like you repackaging Slackware and
    > then writing the equivalent of Gnome or KDE and calling it Bill-OS
    > V5.0. Aqua, the Apple GUI (plus a lot of utilities) is theirs and
    > they wrote it themselves (maybe some came from NEXT? I'm not sure).


    What they actually wrote isn't a GUI. Their GUI is X-windows. All
    they wrote themselves was a Window Manager which is quite a bit less
    than either a GUI or an OS. Next ran Display PostScript which I think
    was Adobe's.

    >
    > But you're right. Calling it a "totally new operating system" is a
    > stretch.


    Even that is an understatement.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

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