DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option? - VMS

This is a discussion on DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option? - VMS ; I'm exploring options for reduced cost bootable recovery device/media for DS10L turnkey configurations. (lower cost that 3X-PBXRY-AA used CDROM options). The option I'm currently exploring is an IDE/Compact Flash adapter. If I can get this to successfully boot, provisioning larger ...

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Thread: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

  1. DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    I'm exploring options for reduced cost bootable recovery
    device/media for DS10L turnkey configurations.
    (lower cost that 3X-PBXRY-AA used CDROM options).

    The option I'm currently exploring is an IDE/Compact Flash adapter.

    If I can get this to successfully boot, provisioning larger Compact
    Flash
    cards (4G, 8G) would also give me an interesting backup medium option.

    I have previously successfully tested transferring the
    OpenVMS V8.3 bootable distribution CDROM to an IDE hard drive,
    and booting the resulting IDE hard drive.

    Hardware/software Setup details:

    Startech IDE2CFINT - aka IDE2CF-B1

    http://www.startech.com/item/IDE2CFI...E-Adapter.aspx

    http://it.us.syba.com/bin/user-manua...-EN-040904.pdf

    n.b. This adapter does NOT support hot insertion of CF cards.
    Upside is that it doesn't require special driver support.

    Kingston 1G Elite Pro (50X) CF card - CF/1024-S

    Adapter optioned as

    JP1 1-2 - external power

    JP2 1-2 - +5 CF mode

    JP3 1-2 - Master / single mode

    DS10L/600 1GBy w/3X-PBXRY-AA as test system

    OpenVMS/Alpha V8.3 CDROM distrbution disk

    DS10L rollcall w/IDE/CF device present:

    >>>sho dev

    dqa0.0.0.13.0 DQA0 SAMSUNG CF/ATA
    04/05/06
    dqb0.0.1.13.0 DQB0 CD-224E
    9.5B
    dva0.0.0.0.0 DVA0
    ewa0.0.0.9.0 EWA0 08-00-2B-87-45-D8
    ewb0.0.0.11.0 EWB0 08-00-2B-87-45-C0
    pka0.7.0.17.0 PKA0 SCSI Bus ID 7
    pkb0.7.0.117.0 PKB0 SCSI Bus ID 7

    IDE/CF mounted as a foreign disk:

    Disk DQA0:, device type SAMSUNG CF/ATA, is online, allocated,
    deallocate on
    dismount, mounted foreign, file-oriented device, shareable,
    available to
    cluster, error logging is enabled.

    Error count 0 Operations
    completed 613
    Owner process "SA_STARTUP" Owner
    UIC [1,4]
    Owner process ID 00000024 Dev Prot
    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W
    Reference count 2 Default buffer
    size 512
    Total blocks 2041200 Sectors per
    track 63
    Total cylinders 2025 Tracks per
    cylinder 16

    Volume label "" Relative volume
    number 0
    Cluster size 0 Transaction
    count 1
    Free blocks 0 Maximum files
    allowed 0
    Extend quantity 0 Mount
    count 1
    Mount status Process ACP process
    name ""

    Volume Status: Unknown ACP type.

    Command used to successfully transfer OpenVMS CDROM to IDE/CF unit:

    $$$backup/image/init/fast/ver/ign=labe dqb0: dqa0:

    (Similar backup command was used to transfer the bootable OpenVMS
    CDROM
    to an IDE hard disk, with the resulting IDE hard disk being capable
    of
    of OpenVMS boot and subsequent BACKUP DCL execution.)

    IDE/CF mounted as an OpenVMS disk after being populated w/CDROM data:

    Disk DQA0:, device type SAMSUNG CF/ATA, is online, allocated,
    deallocate on
    dismount, mounted, file-oriented device, shareable, available to
    cluster,
    error logging is enabled.

    Error count 0 Operations
    completed 25
    Owner process "SA_STARTUP" Owner
    UIC [1,4]
    Owner process ID 00000024 Dev Prot
    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W
    Reference count 2 Default buffer
    size 512
    Total blocks 2041200 Sectors per
    track 63
    Total cylinders 2025 Tracks per
    cylinder 16
    Logical Volume Size 2041200 Expansion Size
    Limit 2052096

    Volume label "ALPHA083" Relative volume
    number 0
    Cluster size 3 Transaction
    count 1
    Free blocks 968475 Maximum files
    allowed 255150
    Extend quantity 5 Mount
    count 1
    Mount status Process Cache name
    "_DQB0:XQPCACHE"
    Extent cache size 64 Maximum blocks in extent
    cache 96847
    File ID cache size 64 Blocks in extent
    cache 0
    Quota cache size 0 Maximum buffers in FCP
    cache 2935
    Volume owner UIC [1,1] Vol Prot
    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD

    Volume Status: ODS-2, subject to mount verification, file high-
    water marking,
    write-back caching enabled.

    DS10L POST:

    *** keyboard not plugged in...
    1024 Meg of system memory
    probing hose 0, PCI
    probing PCI-to-ISA bridge, bus 1
    bus 0, slot 9 -- ewa -- DE500-BA Network Controller
    bus 0, slot 11 -- ewb -- DE500-BA Network Controller
    bus 0, slot 13 -- dqa -- Acer Labs M1543C IDE
    bus 0, slot 13 -- dqb -- Acer Labs M1543C IDE
    bus 0, slot 17, function 0 -- pka -- Adaptec AIC-7899
    bus 0, slot 17, function 1 -- pkb -- Adaptec AIC-7899
    initializing GCT/FRU at 3ff40000
    Testing the System
    Testing the Disks (read only)
    file open failed for dqa0.0.0.13.0
    Testing ew* devices.
    System Temperature is 26 degrees C

    AlphaServer DS10L 617 MHz Console V7.3-1, Feb 27 2007 13:17:58

    Boot attempt failure for IDE/CF option:

    >>>b dqa0

    (boot dqa0.0.0.13.0 -flags 0,0)
    failed to open dqa0.0.0.13.0

    The IDE/CF adapter activity LED never blinks during the boot attempt.
    This plus the early failure message suggests that the DS10L Alpha SRM
    bootstrap code is rejecting the IDE/CF device for buss-handshake/
    device
    recognition reasons, as opposed to any content of the drive itself.

    If there are any doubts, it's not hard to perform an INIT/ERASE
    to eliminate any uncertainty. I did not try that yet in case
    someone else suggests another boot test that requires a populated
    IDE/CF data structure. CD to IDE/CF backup of the OpenVMS CDROM
    with verification takes around 30 minutes elapsed.
    (CDROM is not a fast device).

    Trying different OS_TYPE settings had no effect,
    suggesting that the content of the IDE/CF option
    is not the issue.

    >>>set os_type openvms
    >>>b dqa0

    (boot dqa0.0.0.13.0 -flags 0,0)
    failed to open dqa0.0.0.13.0
    >>>set os_type unix
    >>>b dqa0

    (boot dqa0.0.0.13.0 -flags 0,0)
    failed to open dqa0.0.0.13.0
    >>>set os_type osf
    >>>b dqa0

    (boot dqa0.0.0.13.0 -flags 0,0)
    failed to open dqa0.0.0.13.0

    Any ideas?

    Rod Regier
    Dymaxion Research Ltd.

  2. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    Rod wrote:

    > Command used to successfully transfer OpenVMS CDROM to IDE/CF unit:
    >
    > $$$backup/image/init/fast/ver/ign=labe dqb0: dqa0:


    Would one need to run any "writeboot" (or alpha equivalent) after such
    an operation to ensure the boot block points to the proper location ?

    or does backup/image take care of this ?

    If you can boot the install CD, have you considered trying to install
    VMS on the IDE/CF disk ? (aka: run the menu to install VMS on a new disk).



  3. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    On Apr 23, 11:57*am, JF Mezei wrote:
    > Rod wrote:
    > > * *Command used to successfully transfer OpenVMS CDROM to IDE/CF unit:

    >
    > > $$$backup/image/init/fast/ver/ign=labe dqb0: dqa0:

    >
    > Would one need to run any "writeboot" (or alpha equivalent) after such
    > an operation to ensure the boot block points to the proper location ?
    >
    > or does backup/image take care of this ?
    >
    > If you can boot the install CD, have you considered trying to install
    > VMS on the IDE/CF *disk ? (aka: run the menu to install VMS on a new disk).


    I'm comfortable that the identical process used to successfully
    populate
    a test IDE hard drive (BACKUP/IMAGE) on the same box is also writing a
    valid IDE/CF drive.
    My current understanding is that BACKUP/IMAGE creates a bootable
    result
    if based on a bootable source.

    The boot failure appears to be occuring long before it
    reaches OS-specific processing.

  4. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    When I got my first DS10L, I inquired about formatting drives. Seems
    that it could be done, but only from the alphaBIOS menu driven thing.
    (beware: it isn't obvious how to get out of it).

    Perhaps if you get into it, you could then try to format the card to see
    if the firmware lets you do it.

    Perhaps you have a IDE disk emulator that doesn'T quite provide what the
    Alpha firmware expects. Does the DS10L have the latest firmware ? (I
    think 7.3 is the lastest firmware, it can be obtained from the HP web
    site somewhere)

  5. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    On Apr 23, 1:05*pm, JF Mezei wrote:
    > When I got my first DS10L, I inquired about formatting drives. Seems
    > that it could be done, but only from the alphaBIOS menu driven thing.
    > (beware: it isn't obvious how to get out of it).
    >
    > Perhaps if you get into it, you could then try to format the card to see
    > if the firmware lets you do it.
    >
    > Perhaps you have a IDE disk emulator that doesn'T quite provide what the
    > Alpha firmware expects. Does the DS10L have the latest firmware ? (I
    > think 7.3 is the lastest firmware, it can be obtained from the HP web
    > site somewhere)


    If it was a formatting issue, I would have expected the BACKUP w/
    VERIFY to complain
    if it was a problem. Works just like a magnetic disk with OpenVMS
    usage so far.

    Running latest firmware - displayed detail from original posting:

    AlphaServer DS10L 617 MHz Console V7.3-1, Feb 27 2007 13:17:58

    That date is for the firmware, not from a system clock.

    My current suspicion is that the Alpha firmware and the hardware for
    the IDE/CF adapter don't see eye-to-eye. If that is indeed the case
    I'm likely out of luck.
    I'm hoping someone can pull a miracle out of the bag.

  6. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    Rod wrote:
    > I'm likely out of luck.
    > I'm hoping someone can pull a miracle out of the bag.



    In that case, you need FredK :-)

  7. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?


    You are correct. The error message indicates that the SRM coudn't open the
    device - so it never got to the point of trying to read from it. What does
    SHOW DEVICE from the SRM console give you?



    "Rod" wrote in message
    news:c4f2b150-d169-409e-a661-72d422ca27b7@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
    On Apr 23, 11:57 am, JF Mezei wrote:
    > Rod wrote:
    > > Command used to successfully transfer OpenVMS CDROM to IDE/CF unit:

    >
    > > $$$backup/image/init/fast/ver/ign=labe dqb0: dqa0:

    >
    > Would one need to run any "writeboot" (or alpha equivalent) after such
    > an operation to ensure the boot block points to the proper location ?
    >
    > or does backup/image take care of this ?
    >
    > If you can boot the install CD, have you considered trying to install
    > VMS on the IDE/CF disk ? (aka: run the menu to install VMS on a new disk).


    I'm comfortable that the identical process used to successfully
    populate
    a test IDE hard drive (BACKUP/IMAGE) on the same box is also writing a
    valid IDE/CF drive.
    My current understanding is that BACKUP/IMAGE creates a bootable
    result
    if based on a bootable source.

    The boot failure appears to be occuring long before it
    reaches OS-specific processing.



  8. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    We had some that worked with Alpha DS10 and other alpha systems that had.
    The SD cards worked but we had loads of errors on CF

    FYI


    --
    David B Turner

    =============================================

    Island Computers US Corp
    PO Box 86
    Tybee GA 31328

    Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251
    Email: dturner@islandco.com
    International: 001 706 993 1787
    Fax: 912 786 8505
    Web: www.islandco.com

    =============================================
    "Rod" wrote in message
    news:c4f2b150-d169-409e-a661-72d422ca27b7@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
    On Apr 23, 11:57 am, JF Mezei wrote:
    > Rod wrote:
    > > Command used to successfully transfer OpenVMS CDROM to IDE/CF unit:

    >
    > > $$$backup/image/init/fast/ver/ign=labe dqb0: dqa0:

    >
    > Would one need to run any "writeboot" (or alpha equivalent) after such
    > an operation to ensure the boot block points to the proper location ?
    >
    > or does backup/image take care of this ?
    >
    > If you can boot the install CD, have you considered trying to install
    > VMS on the IDE/CF disk ? (aka: run the menu to install VMS on a new disk).


    I'm comfortable that the identical process used to successfully
    populate
    a test IDE hard drive (BACKUP/IMAGE) on the same box is also writing a
    valid IDE/CF drive.
    My current understanding is that BACKUP/IMAGE creates a bootable
    result
    if based on a bootable source.

    The boot failure appears to be occuring long before it
    reaches OS-specific processing.



  9. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    On Apr 23, 2:12*pm, "David Turner, Island Computers"
    wrote:
    > We had some that worked with Alpha DS10 and other alpha systems that had.
    > The SD cards worked but we had loads of errors on CF


    I'm not fixated on CF. "Plain CD" goes up to 4GBy. Any specific
    product model/mfgr detail for the successful SD offerings?

  10. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    On Apr 23, 1:56*pm, "FredK" wrote:
    > You are correct. *The error message indicates that the SRM coudn't open the
    > device - so it never got to the point of trying to read from it. *What does
    > SHOW DEVICE from the SRM console give you?


    As indicated in my original post, SHO DEVICE displayed:

    >>>sho dev


    dqa0.0.0.13.0 DQA0 SAMSUNG CF/ATA 04/05/06

    (white space removed to avoid wrapping).

    I have no idea why it displays 04/05/06

  11. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    In article <480f4e8b$0$7267$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >
    > or does backup/image take care of this ?


    Backup/image will take care of this for you.


  12. Re: DS10L bootable IDE/Compact Flash option?

    http://www.provantage.com/addonics-a...b~7ADDO14P.htm

    I think we purchased these from distribution but you can buy for about $50




    --
    David B Turner

    =============================================

    Island Computers US Corp
    PO Box 86
    Tybee GA 31328

    Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251
    Email: dturner@islandco.com
    International: 001 706 993 1787
    Fax: 912 786 8505
    Web: www.islandco.com

    =============================================
    "Rod" wrote in message
    news:0c6c7131-5c0b-4db6-8ff3-aa7e8e12b941@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
    On Apr 23, 2:12 pm, "David Turner, Island Computers"
    wrote:
    > We had some that worked with Alpha DS10 and other alpha systems that had.
    > The SD cards worked but we had loads of errors on CF


    I'm not fixated on CF. "Plain CD" goes up to 4GBy. Any specific
    product model/mfgr detail for the successful SD offerings?



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