Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 - VMS

This is a discussion on Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 - VMS ; "Tom Linden" wrote in message news p.t94zhqmfhv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net... > On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:02:36 -0700, FredK wrote: > >> >> "John Reagan" wrote in message >> news:fukt68$jic$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> >>> >>>> A few years ago is right. ...

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Thread: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

  1. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86


    "Tom Linden" wrote in message
    newsp.t94zhqmfhv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net...
    > On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:02:36 -0700, FredK wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "John Reagan" wrote in message
    >> news:fukt68$jic$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
    >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> A few years ago is right. Fielded in 1991, approved for production in
    >>>> 1996,
    >>>> last system delivered in 2005. A total of 8 systems. There is much
    >>>> more
    >>>> information about the airframe than anything else and
    >>>> no mention of VMS at all. I wonder if it has been ported to Windows
    >>>> yet?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> A NG employee gave a keynote address at last year's OpenVMS Technical
    >>> Bootcamp on JSTARS. The non-disclosure prevents me from giving details
    >>> from the talk (which itself was very high level) plus I'd probably
    >>> remember incorrectly anyway.
    >>>

    >>
    >> JSTARS has been running on VMS since 1991 and the prototype plane was
    >> called
    >> into service during Gulf War I - if you remember the prop behind Gen
    >> Swartzcropf in the "mother of all retreats" - that was from JSTARS.
    >>
    >> Originally on VAX and ruggedized DEC3000 (Flamingo) systems, it migrated
    >> to
    >> modified AlphaServer ES40s (form factor modification and power supply).
    >> Each aircraft (Boeing 707s) contains 20 ES40s. There are 17 production
    >> aircraft plus backups and test. Plus training and ground stations.
    >>
    >> http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/jstars/
    >>
    >> Provides a high level overview of the E8. As will a Google search on
    >> "Northrop Grumman JSTARS"
    >>
    >> JSTARS remains an active and evolving program.
    >>
    >> All of the above can be gleaned from public materials.
    >>
    >>

    > Fred, do you what language they used for their code? One would,
    > absent any other data, assume Ada, but Northrup Grumman was a
    > PL/I user.
    >



    I do know. I can't tell you. But it isn't PL/1, and your assumption would
    not be correct.

    Does that help?




  2. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    In article ,
    Sebastian Hanigk wrote:

    > "P. Sture" writes:
    >
    > > Yes, and if you understand it, the German version of "Das Boot" is
    > > better than the English one.

    >
    > Which -- with some notable exceptions (X-Files, anyone?) -- ties quite
    > nicely into the notion that consuming original material is usually the
    > better choice :-)
    >


    Indeed :-)

    --
    Paul Sture

    Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
    http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~stu...bookmarks.html

  3. Re: OT - good restaurants (was:Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86)

    In article <4811150B.8020200@comcast.net>, bradhamilton writes:
    >
    > OK - what makes it a "Boston" pecan pie? Made by two unrelated women
    > who live together? :-)


    I don't know. Perhaps it had too much bourbon in it for Bourbon
    Street.


  4. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > In article ,
    > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    >> In article <6718lhF2m4eapU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>> Somebody tell me again how DOD is one of VMS's biggest customers!

    >> I'm, sorry, we were unable to ascertain need to know.

    >
    > This red herring is getting as tired as Kerry's "5-20 patches" mantra.


    It seems obvious to me that DoD has VMS systems.

    They must have hundreds of thousands of servers running.

    Acquired and configured during a number of decades.

    There has to be lot of those systems acquired between the
    early 80's and mid 90's.

    And a good portion of those system must have been
    VMS systems.

    And I don't believe that they have replaced all of them.

    Systems tend to keep running and running forever.

    > How many times do I have to tell you, I am on the inside.


    It is not my impression that the entire DoD is a transparent
    organization with good overview of everything.

    > I know there are still VMS systems in existance. But they
    > appear to be the very best examples of legacy systems. They run one
    > or two fixed programs. They see no new development and very limited
    > maintenance (probably due to a fear that anything done may result in
    > breaking the running application.)


    I think that description fit a huge portion of all remaining VMS
    systems. DoD or non-DoD.

    Arne

  5. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    > In article ,
    > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    >> In article <673tb7F2lqjjfU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>> In article ,
    >>> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
    >>>> In article <6718lhF2m4eapU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >>>>> Somebody tell me again how DOD is one of VMS's biggest customers!
    >>>> I'm, sorry, we were unable to ascertain need to know.
    >>> This red herring is getting as tired as Kerry's "5-20 patches" mantra.
    >>> How many times do I have to tell you, I am on the inside.

    >> Tired of the facts becaudse you can't make them go away? Everyone
    >> one the inside knows about need to know. You job as a subject
    >> matter expert is limitted to those subjects they want to be able to
    >> ask you about.

    >
    > Bob, this is just getting funnier all the time. "Need to know"
    > applies to classified information. VMS is not classified.


    The fact that VMS is not a secret OS (even though it can be argued
    that DEC/CPQ/HP marketing have tried to make it so) does not imply
    that the existence of all system running VMS are not secret.

    Arne

  6. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    Arne Vajh°j wrote:

    > The fact that VMS is not a secret OS (even though it can be argued
    > that DEC/CPQ/HP marketing have tried to make it so) does not imply
    > that the existence of all system running VMS are not secret.


    Those secret VMS DOD systems that "don't exist" may still be bringing HP
    some revenu, but they don't help attract new ISVs nor do they help
    shore up VMS' image because they "don't exist".

    Those secret system might still benefit normal VMS systems though. Say
    the "non existant" DOD systems still pay maintenant to Tom Linden for
    PL1, it means that normal customers benefit from PL1 continuing to be
    available on Alpha/VAX VMS.

    IF DOD demanded PL1 on those IA64 contraptions, HP would go through
    hoops and loops with Intel to give Mr Linden access to the GEM backend.

    So lack of PL1 on IA64 is an indication that DOD isn't using PL1 on IA64.

    What would benefit VMS greatly is if DOD were to admit that they are
    still developing NEW applications on VMS.

    If all they got left are mature VMS systems that are just being
    maintained with no new VMS development of new apps/systems, then it is
    just a matter of time before they are eventually replaced. And systems
    that are just on maintanance don't generate much to the VMS ecosystems
    in terms of buying new applications and supporting/attracting new ISVs.

  7. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:25:32 -0700, JF Mezei
    wrote:

    > So lack of PL1 on IA64 is an indication that DOD isn't using PL1 on IA64.


    Some of them are just now coverting from VAX to Alpha!

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  8. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    In article <6795a6F2npagmU2@mid.individual.net>,
    Bill Gunshannon wrote:
    >In article <480f23a1$0$25036$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
    >> In article <677i8hF2k0pq2U2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu

    >(Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >
    >When I am not on active duty I do my military duty in Gettysburg. Perkins
    >is the only place open early enough and with service fast enough for me to
    >have breakfast before I have to report to work. And I am definitely a
    >breakfast person. Of course, a Denny's would be better. :-)


    I knew there was somewhere we see eye to eye.

    One thing about Field Service in the Central NJ area... especially on
    2nd and third shift.

    You grow to appreciate NJ Diners and places that serve 24x7.
    There was this little waffle-house-like place near Lawrenceville I
    remember near Naval Air Propulsion... Boy... I remember it more than
    the 11/70 they had.

    >Now we can start a new thread on where to eat when yu are in the middle of
    > nowhere.
    >
    >bill
    >
    >
    >--
    >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    >billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    >University of Scranton |
    >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include


    Lousy nuked burrito's in the 7-11 by I-195 near Trenton.
    Field Service breakfast of champions on my way home at 3AM along with a
    Big Gulp or Slurpee and a bag of Doritos. No wonder I couldn't wait to
    get off second shift and quit DEC eventially to do it.


    Bill
    --
    --
    "When I think back on all the crap I learned in Vax school
    It's a wonder I fixed anything at all." (to the tune of Kodachrome)
    pechter-at-ureach.com

  9. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    Alex ****ell wrote:
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >>>> Perkins and Denny's can't touch the quality of the food.
    >>> They are fine for bacon and eggs.

    >> ...but no scrapple!

    >
    > Sorry - Brit here who used VAXen when at Nottingham Poly (now a Notes
    > admin) - but what, pray tell, is scrapple?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapple

    :-) Csaba

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| http://csabaharangozo.blogspot.com
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:

    Weinberg's Law :
    If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, then
    the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilisation.

  10. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    P. Sture wrote:
    > In article <6794vnF2npagmU1@mid.individual.net>,
    > billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
    >> It's "das Boot", not "das boat". So, anyone remember the movie of
    >> the
    >> same name? :-)

    > Yes, and if you understand it, the German version of "Das Boot" is
    > better than the English one.


    Nah - gimme the miniseries any day... but yes, in German 5:1 with
    English subs - the way I remember in when broadcast on BBC2 back when
    i saw it first...

    --
    Alex ****ell
    Reading, Berks, UK
    al****ell AT eclipse DOT co DOT uk

  11. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >>> Perkins and Denny's can't touch the quality of the food.

    >>They are fine for bacon and eggs.

    > ...but no scrapple!


    Sorry - Brit here who used VAXen when at Nottingham Poly (now a Notes
    admin) - but what, pray tell, is scrapple?

    Alex

    --
    Alex ****ell
    Reading, Berks, UK
    al****ell AT eclipse DOT co DOT uk

  12. Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86

    Alex ****ell wrote:
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >>>> Perkins and Denny's can't touch the quality of the food.
    >>> They are fine for bacon and eggs.

    >> ...but no scrapple!

    >
    > Sorry - Brit here who used VAXen when at Nottingham Poly (now a Notes
    > admin) - but what, pray tell, is scrapple?
    >
    > Alex
    >


    Scrapple is a sausage-like substance made from corn meal, fat, meat, and
    seasonings. I believe it originated with the Pennsylvania Dutch.


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