Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available - VMS

This is a discussion on Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available - VMS ; Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , "John Wallace" writes: > >> There were PCs in DEC after the Rainbow, and I don't mean the European >> DECivetti stuff. > > I only recall DEC reselling laptops from Olivetti. But ...

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Thread: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

  1. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Bob Koehler wrote:
    > In article , "John Wallace" writes:
    >
    >> There were PCs in DEC after the Rainbow, and I don't mean the European
    >> DECivetti stuff.

    >
    > I only recall DEC reselling laptops from Olivetti. But I do recall
    > DEC reselling desktops from Tandy.
    >

    ISTR that there was some sort of "Pizza Box" that came after the Rainbow.

  2. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    > Bob Koehler wrote:
    >> In article , "John Wallace" writes:
    >>
    >>> There were PCs in DEC after the Rainbow, and I don't mean the European
    >>> DECivetti stuff.

    >>
    >> I only recall DEC reselling laptops from Olivetti. But I do recall
    >> DEC reselling desktops from Tandy.
    >>

    > ISTR that there was some sort of "Pizza Box" that came after the Rainbow.


    IIRC, after the Rainbow DEC tried making IBM compatable PCs in house
    and lost its shirt. So they resold other manufacturer's PCs for a
    while. I don't recall if they ever tried making thier own again
    before Compaq bought DEC.


  3. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    On 2008-04-15, Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    > Bob Koehler wrote:
    >> In article , "John Wallace" writes:
    >>
    >>> There were PCs in DEC after the Rainbow, and I don't mean the European
    >>> DECivetti stuff.

    >>
    >> I only recall DEC reselling laptops from Olivetti. But I do recall
    >> DEC reselling desktops from Tandy.
    >>

    > ISTR that there was some sort of "Pizza Box" that came after the Rainbow.


    That'd be the VAXmate. I heard the MicroVAX2000 people were quite upset that
    the PC folks stoll the VAXmate name; they wanted to use it for the 2000.
    --
    roger ivie
    rivie@ridgenet.net

  4. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Bob Koehler wrote:

    > IIRC, after the Rainbow DEC tried making IBM compatable PCs in house
    > and lost its shirt. So they resold other manufacturer's PCs for a
    > while. I don't recall if they ever tried making thier own again
    > before Compaq bought DEC.


    Yes they did. As a matter of fact, they had an assembly plant in Kanata
    (near Ottawa , Canada) that was more efficient than Compaq's own, and it
    had ended up being the north american assembly plant for DEC's wintel
    gear because of that. When Compaq got its hands on DEC, it closed that
    assembly plant even though it was more efficient than its own.


  5. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    > price from a local PC reseller. And though HP-UX is not downloadable,
    > it is legal to install and run it once you got hold of some media.


    HP were (for a while) happy to send HP-UX 11i media to anyone who filled in
    a form on the web.

    Antonio

  6. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Roger Ivie wrote in
    news:slrng0a01d.k1h.rivie@stench.no.domain:

    > That'd be the VAXmate. I heard the MicroVAX2000 people were quite
    > upset that the PC folks stoll the VAXmate name; they wanted to use it
    > for the 2000.


    Wasn't the uV2000 codenamed Teammate? Maybe that's as near as they could
    get. No harm done, the uV2000/VS2000 must have outsold the VAXmate by a
    wide margin.

    Antonio

  7. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Michael Kraemer wrote in
    news:fu1iue$7ko$01$1@news.t-online.com:

    > Maybe, but, from my own experience, I doubt that one can devote the
    > same amount of time and effort in a leisure time project after having
    > worked hard 40+ hours in a regular IT job.


    I know that if we find a bug at work with the open source stuff we use,
    we'll report it. If we happen to need a fix and fix it, we'll contribute
    that. Even if that amounts to just a few man days worth of development
    effort on our part 9as a total for the whole company), all the few days
    here and from many, many companies does add up to quite a resource.

    > But to be efficient on a
    > particular project, you need to spend a significant amount of time.
    > Look at the gazillion of OSS projects which were abandoned because
    > the author(s) had no more time. Finished university, got a girl
    > friend, bought a house etc.


    But we don't use any of the gazillion projects that were dropped and never
    picked up again. I don't really care how many fall by the wayside as long
    as the ones I need keep going (or as long as I can easily switch to another
    horse in midstream). In practice, this just hasn't been a problem.

    It's true that if I wanted to make a difference to Firefox of KDE
    development I'd have to put in more time than I have, but beta testing and
    the odd bug report all adds up too.

    Antonio

  8. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in
    news:HRntKEIRq4bn@eisner.encompasserve.org:

    > There is an unsupported interface provided by some non-DEC folks
    > for writing VMS device drivers in BLISS on VAX. But since those
    > outsiders provided the interface definitions back in about the VMS
    > 5.x timeframe you may find you have to update them yourself in
    > order to get it to work. On the other hand, when I had problems in
    > a device driver written in Macro-32 for a VAX I was able to send a
    > crash dump to customer support and they had no trouble helping me
    > track down the hardware problem that was causing it (even though
    > the hardware was under 3rd party maintenance).


    The VAX WANDD drivers and the PSI stuff were a mixture of some MACRO-32 and
    lots of BLISS.

    If you wanted to write a driver in FORTRAN you might have some issues, but
    BLISS worked without problems.


    > If you want to write a VMS device driver in PL/I, you go right
    > ahead. Happy fat Al.


    The first problem would be defining all those tables that are required.
    Assuming that PL/I can do that, then the rest is probably easy in
    comparison. Does PL/I have a way of specifying JSB interfaces? If not then
    you will (probably) need some MACRO-32 wrappers here and there. Whether
    this offends the purist in you or not depends on how pragmatic you are, I
    guess.

    Antonio

  9. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    On 2008-04-15, Antonio Carlini wrote:
    > Roger Ivie wrote in
    > news:slrng0a01d.k1h.rivie@stench.no.domain:
    >
    >> That'd be the VAXmate. I heard the MicroVAX2000 people were quite
    >> upset that the PC folks stoll the VAXmate name; they wanted to use it
    >> for the 2000.

    >
    > Wasn't the uV2000 codenamed Teammate? Maybe that's as near as they could
    > get. No harm done, the uV2000/VS2000 must have outsold the VAXmate by a
    > wide margin.


    I thought it was codenamed VAXstar. But it wouldn't be the first time I
    was wrong...
    --
    roger ivie
    rivie@ridgenet.net

  10. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Michael Kraemer wrote:
    > Arne Vajhøj schrieb:
    >> It can not justify the high price.
    >>
    >> But it can prove that even with standard profit margin they
    >> would not have been competitive with the standard PC's.

    >
    > The competition at that time weren't PCs
    > (which nobody took serious anyway, we're talking about pre-Windoze3.1),
    > but RISC workstations. Even those from DEC themselves were way
    > more competitive than VAXen.


    That was what DEC and the others thought.

    History showed that the PC's were indeed the real
    competition.

    Arne

  11. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Bob Koehler wrote:
    > In article , "John Wallace" writes:
    >> There were PCs in DEC after the Rainbow, and I don't mean the European
    >> DECivetti stuff.

    >
    > I only recall DEC reselling laptops from Olivetti. But I do recall
    > DEC reselling desktops from Tandy.


    DEC sold Tandys in the US and Olivettis in Europe.

    I have seen plenty of DEC Olivetti desktop PC's (but never
    a Tandy).

    One time they even send the DEC (or was it Digital at that
    time) labels separately so we could put them on ourselves.

    Arne

  12. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Bob Koehler wrote:
    > In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes:
    >> Bob Koehler wrote:
    >>> In article , "John Wallace" writes:
    >>>
    >>>> There were PCs in DEC after the Rainbow, and I don't mean the European
    >>>> DECivetti stuff.
    >>> I only recall DEC reselling laptops from Olivetti. But I do recall
    >>> DEC reselling desktops from Tandy.
    >>>

    >> ISTR that there was some sort of "Pizza Box" that came after the Rainbow.

    >
    > IIRC, after the Rainbow DEC tried making IBM compatable PCs in house
    > and lost its shirt. So they resold other manufacturer's PCs for a
    > while. I don't recall if they ever tried making thier own again
    > before Compaq bought DEC.


    I think they did.

    Venturis, Celebris and Prioris were real Digital PC's.

    And good quality also if you ask me.

    Arne



  13. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Arne Vajhøj wrote:

    > Bob Koehler wrote:
    >
    >> In article , "Richard B.
    >> Gilbert" writes:
    >>
    >>> Bob Koehler wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> In article , "John
    >>>> Wallace" writes:
    >>>>
    >>>>> There were PCs in DEC after the Rainbow, and I don't mean the European
    >>>>> DECivetti stuff.
    >>>>
    >>>> I only recall DEC reselling laptops from Olivetti. But I do recall
    >>>> DEC reselling desktops from Tandy.
    >>>>
    >>> ISTR that there was some sort of "Pizza Box" that came after the
    >>> Rainbow.

    >>
    >>
    >> IIRC, after the Rainbow DEC tried making IBM compatable PCs in house
    >> and lost its shirt. So they resold other manufacturer's PCs for a
    >> while. I don't recall if they ever tried making thier own again
    >> before Compaq bought DEC.

    >
    >
    > I think they did.
    >
    > Venturis, Celebris and Prioris were real Digital PC's.
    >
    > And good quality also if you ask me.
    >
    > Arne
    >
    >


    Yep. I had a Venturis 166 that ran from 1996/7 through early 2008; first
    on my DEC desk, then in my home office. In my home, that DEC PC was the
    quietest and most stable (fewest reboots) of my 8 PCs, in spite of 24x7
    use and 6(!) DIMMs. {Trivia: 6 DIMMs totalled 112 MB; 2x32 + 2x16 + 2x8.}
    --
    Cheers, Bob

  14. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    In article , Antonio Carlini writes:
    >
    > The VAX WANDD drivers and the PSI stuff were a mixture of some MACRO-32 and
    > lots of BLISS.


    The actual drivers or the ACPs? The folks who gave the presentation
    on writing device drivers in BLISS said they were using some
    undocumented features of the compiler (how to get it to generate
    certain instructions) which DEC wasn't aware of.

    But I suppose if you mix BLISS and Macro-32 you could always get
    exactly the required instructions at places where you must.


  15. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in
    newseKk5dmsxTYX@eisner.encompasserve.org:

    > The actual drivers or the ACPs?


    Both. Someone (before my time) had decided that he'd write his entire
    driver in BLISS. I think it was still entirely BLISS when I was there but
    my memory may be a bit dodgy.

    > The folks who gave the
    > presentation on writing device drivers in BLISS said they were
    > using some undocumented features of the compiler (how to get it to
    > generate certain instructions) which DEC wasn't aware of.


    It would be interesting to know exactly how DEC woiuldn't be aware of
    undocumented features in its own code! I don't recall tripping over any
    undocumented stuff, but then unless it was explicitly called out as
    undocumented I probably wouldn't have noticed.

    There were certainly some interesting bits of code. One in particular I
    remember needed to finish with a certain instruction sequence so that it
    could vanish properly on RSB ... there were some contortions in there to
    make that happen (along with a comment that it worked and shouldn't be
    touched).

    > But I suppose if you mix BLISS and Macro-32 you could always get
    > exactly the required instructions at places where you must.


    In the cases where you needed a 32-bit read or write or whatever, there was
    no real problem: the compiler did pretty much what you expected. I think
    most of the drivers built the FDT etc. with MACRO-32 (as normal) but I'm
    sure that one at least did it's stuff with BLISS macros and a few liberal
    PSECT statements. Probably wandering off into the realms of unsupported,
    but, hey, this was a group cutting driver code and writing your own drivers
    is largely an unsupported activity.

    Antonio

  16. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Roger Ivie wrote in
    news:slrng0ak65.pqs.rivie@stench.no.domain:

    > I thought it was codenamed VAXstar. But it wouldn't be the first time
    > I was wrong...


    I think VAXstar was the VAXstation 2000 and Teammate (with some oddball
    capitalisation that escapes me now) was the MicroVAX 2000. Quite why one
    jumper difference (more or less) earned a different codename, I don't know.

    Antonio


  17. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Bob Willard wrote:
    > Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >> Bob Koehler wrote:
    >>> IIRC, after the Rainbow DEC tried making IBM compatable PCs in house
    >>> and lost its shirt. So they resold other manufacturer's PCs for a
    >>> while. I don't recall if they ever tried making thier own again
    >>> before Compaq bought DEC.

    >>
    >> I think they did.
    >>
    >> Venturis, Celebris and Prioris were real Digital PC's.
    >>
    >> And good quality also if you ask me.

    >
    > Yep. I had a Venturis 166 that ran from 1996/7 through early 2008; first
    > on my DEC desk, then in my home office. In my home, that DEC PC was the
    > quietest and most stable (fewest reboots) of my 8 PCs, in spite of 24x7
    > use and 6(!) DIMMs. {Trivia: 6 DIMMs totalled 112 MB; 2x32 + 2x16 + 2x8.}


    I still have a Digital Venturis 466 running and one from the next series
    a Digital PC 3000 running.

    Arne

  18. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:16:56 -0700, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

    > I still have a Digital Venturis 466 running and one from the next series
    > a Digital PC 3000 running.
    >


    hvorfør?

    --
    PL/I for OpenVMS
    www.kednos.com

  19. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Tom Linden wrote:
    > On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:16:56 -0700, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >
    >> I still have a Digital Venturis 466 running and one from the next series
    >> a Digital PC 3000 running.

    >
    > hvorfør?


    hvorfor ?

    I have them running DOS 6.22 and NT 4.0. They are pretty fast for that.

    Arne

  20. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    In article , Antonio Carlini writes:
    >
    > It would be interesting to know exactly how DEC woiuldn't be aware of
    > undocumented features in its own code! I don't recall tripping over any
    > undocumented stuff, but then unless it was explicitly called out as
    > undocumented I probably wouldn't have noticed.


    It's not unheard of for the author of any piece of code not to
    realize the unintentional consequences of some piece. The one
    time I had to file an SPR against a VAX Fortran compiler part of
    the response was that I'd gone down a path that was thought to be
    unreachable.


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