Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available - VMS

This is a discussion on Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available - VMS ; In article , marty@kuhrt.net writes: >In article , Galen writes: >>Brendan, >> >>Thanks for the tip on my.indeed.com. I like the way the site is >>organized. It makes it simple to filter on combinations of location, >>company, etc., and seems ...

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Thread: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

  1. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    In article <7JednVcdYOERB2DanZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@speakeasy.net>, marty@kuhrt.net writes:
    >In article <2ab6e5fe-cfd8-486e-a0cd-eacff7f23f2d@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Galen writes:
    >>Brendan,
    >>
    >>Thanks for the tip on my.indeed.com. I like the way the site is
    >>organized. It makes it simple to filter on combinations of location,
    >>company, etc., and seems to turn up as many VMS listings as any other
    >>job search site I've tried.
    >>
    >>Galen

    >
    >I found that VMS is used more and more as an acronym that has
    >nothing to do with the Best OS. When I search dice.com, et. al.,
    >with VMS I'll get hits for Vet Med Support, Java VMs, Vendor
    >Management Systems, etc. If there is more than one listing for
    >VMS (the OS) it will usually be multiple headhunters listing the
    >same one opening.


    Try adding VAX.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  2. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    > In article <7JednVcdYOERB2DanZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@speakeasy.net>, marty@kuhrt.net writes:
    >> In article <2ab6e5fe-cfd8-486e-a0cd-eacff7f23f2d@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Galen writes:
    >>> Brendan,
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for the tip on my.indeed.com. I like the way the site is
    >>> organized. It makes it simple to filter on combinations of location,
    >>> company, etc., and seems to turn up as many VMS listings as any other
    >>> job search site I've tried.
    >>>
    >>> Galen

    >> I found that VMS is used more and more as an acronym that has
    >> nothing to do with the Best OS. When I search dice.com, et. al.,
    >> with VMS I'll get hits for Vet Med Support, Java VMs, Vendor
    >> Management Systems, etc. If there is more than one listing for
    >> VMS (the OS) it will usually be multiple headhunters listing the
    >> same one opening.

    >
    > Try adding VAX.
    >


    Try using the correct name, OpenVMS (or "Open VMS").

  3. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:

    > Try adding VAX.


    Or try searching for "legacy" and "VMS" :-)

    Perhaps searching for "DCL" might yield better results since it is
    likley to be included in job requirements for any VMS job ?

  4. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
    >> In article <7JednVcdYOERB2DanZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
    >> marty@kuhrt.net writes:
    >>> In article
    >>> <2ab6e5fe-cfd8-486e-a0cd-eacff7f23f2d@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
    >>> Galen writes:
    >>>> Brendan,
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks for the tip on my.indeed.com. I like the way the site is
    >>>> organized. It makes it simple to filter on combinations of location,
    >>>> company, etc., and seems to turn up as many VMS listings as any other
    >>>> job search site I've tried.
    >>>>
    >>>> Galen
    >>> I found that VMS is used more and more as an acronym that has
    >>> nothing to do with the Best OS. When I search dice.com, et. al.,
    >>> with VMS I'll get hits for Vet Med Support, Java VMs, Vendor
    >>> Management Systems, etc. If there is more than one listing for
    >>> VMS (the OS) it will usually be multiple headhunters listing the
    >>> same one opening.

    >>
    >> Try adding VAX.
    >>

    >
    > Try using the correct name, OpenVMS (or "Open VMS").


    The "correct" name IS "VMS". "OpenVMS" is "change the name of the
    product" marketing bull****. I've been calling it "VMS" for twenty-four
    years now and I'm not about to change.


  5. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    At 07:34 AM 4/10/2008, Bob Koehler wrote:
    >In article ,
    >=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    > >
    > > Try using the correct name, OpenVMS (or "Open VMS").

    >
    > DEC thought that was the correct name, and look where they are now.


    Yeah, just look: 30 years later & VMS is still being developed & sold...


    ------
    +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
    | Dan O'Reilly | "There are 10 types of people in this |
    | Principal Engineer | world: those who understand binary |
    | Process Software | and those who don't." |
    | http://www.process.com | |
    +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+


  6. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >
    > Try using the correct name, OpenVMS (or "Open VMS").


    DEC thought that was the correct name, and look where they are now.

  7. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    On Apr 10, 9:22 am, Dan O'Reilly wrote:
    > At 07:34 AM 4/10/2008, Bob Koehler wrote:
    >
    > >In article ,
    > >=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:

    >
    > > > Try using the correct name, OpenVMS (or "Open VMS").

    >
    > > DEC thought that was the correct name, and look where they are now.

    >
    > Yeah, just look: 30 years later & VMS is still being developed & sold...
    >
    > ------
    > +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
    > | Dan O'Reilly | "There are 10 types of people in this |
    > | Principal Engineer | world: those who understand binary |
    > | Process Software | and those who don't." |
    > |http://www.process.com | |
    > +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+


    [Nitpick alert!]

    No, OpenVMS is being sold! :-)

    AEF

  8. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

    >>
    >> Try using the correct name, OpenVMS (or "Open VMS").

    >
    > The "correct" name IS "VMS". "OpenVMS" is "change the name of the
    > product" marketing bull****. I've been calling it "VMS" for twenty-four
    > years now and I'm not about to change.
    >


    And the job-sites realy care what *you* think ??

    No, just search the sites using the correct name.

  9. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm
    wrote:
    > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >
    >
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Try using the correct name, OpenVMS (or "Open VMS").
    > > >

    > >
    > > The "correct" name IS "VMS". "OpenVMS" is "change the name of the

    > product" marketing bull****. I've been calling it "VMS" for twenty-four
    > years now and I'm not about to change.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > And the job-sites realy care what *you* think ??



    When I use the job sites, I search on "any of the words vms, vax,
    openvms". This works on almost all of the sites. Yes, you get many
    false hits for VMS (vendor management system, vehicle maintenance
    system, etc.), but you do see the jobs that are out there, especially
    when the job ads are for VAX programmers or system people.

    Ken

  10. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    In article <7dd80f60804100732r468f9440of689af989a351ea5@mail.g mail.com>, "Ken Robinson" writes:
    >On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm
    > wrote:
    >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> >
    >> > >
    >> > > Try using the correct name, OpenVMS (or "Open VMS").
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> > The "correct" name IS "VMS". "OpenVMS" is "change the name of the

    >> product" marketing bull****. I've been calling it "VMS" for twenty-four
    >> years now and I'm not about to change.
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> And the job-sites realy care what *you* think ??

    >
    >
    >When I use the job sites, I search on "any of the words vms, vax,
    >openvms". This works on almost all of the sites. Yes, you get many
    >false hits for VMS (vendor management system, vehicle maintenance
    >system, etc.), but you do see the jobs that are out there, especially
    >when the job ads are for VAX programmers or system people.
    >
    >Ken


    Just to follow up to all those that nattered about "Use the right
    name". If you use OpenVMS on most job sites you'll get zero
    hits. Most headhunters and HR drones don't know the "Right"
    name.

    Like Ken, I use a combo of names with the "match any" and sift
    out the ones I don't need/want.

    Not that I attack it that hard anymore. No paying VMS gigs (no
    matter what name you use) since late 2004, and it doesn't look
    like it will get any better any time soon.

    VMS in the SF Bay Area? Not that I can tell.

    Marty

  11. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    In article <6.1.2.0.2.20080410072218.0234bcc0@raptor.psccos.co m>, Dan O'Reilly writes:
    >
    > Yeah, just look: 30 years later & VMS is still being developed & sold...
    >


    Because of people who know O-p-e-n is silent when followed by V-M-S!


  12. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Dan O'Reilly wrote:

    > Yeah, just look: 30 years later & VMS is still being developed & sold...


    I can see it two ways:

    No, HP will not do what is right and doesn't want to sell VMS to some
    company that would really leverage the full potential of VMS. So VMS is
    not being sold.

    Secondly, "selling" implies activity of selling on the part of the
    vendor. VMS isn't being sold in that sense. It is being made available
    for purchase to those who have heard about it and are determined enough
    to navigate through HP's maze of people who don't know about VMS until
    they reach someone who knows what buttons to press on the computer to
    bring up the price list and allows the determined individual to buy VMS.

  13. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    JF Mezei wrote:

    > But HP employees have made it quite clear that interactive use
    > is no longer a priorioty for development.


    Just as for any other server-OS on the planet, even 3270
    on MVS is replaced by other client tools, web based or
    whatever. VMS is no different than any other server-OS
    in this regard.


  14. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Now, now, quit trying to throw logic into it......some people would
    much rather emote...

    At 03:21 PM 4/10/2008, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
    >JF Mezei wrote:
    >
    >>But HP employees have made it quite clear that interactive use
    >>is no longer a priorioty for development.

    >
    >Just as for any other server-OS on the planet, even 3270
    >on MVS is replaced by other client tools, web based or
    >whatever. VMS is no different than any other server-OS
    >in this regard.
    >


    ------
    +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
    | Dan O'Reilly | "There are 10 types of people in this |
    | Principal Engineer | world: those who understand binary |
    | Process Software | and those who don't." |
    | http://www.process.com | |
    +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+


  15. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:

    > Just as for any other server-OS on the planet, even 3270
    > on MVS is replaced by other client tools, web based or
    > whatever. VMS is no different than any other server-OS
    > in this regard.



    OS that are relegated to server only stuff don't have much of a future.
    Even Linux knows that to gain market traction, it needs to have a modern
    user interface.

    VMS isn't developping its user interface because there is no demand for
    it. It dropped it many eons ago because of budget cutbacks due to
    dwindling revenus at Digital. And because someone called Palmer decided
    to give the keys to Microsoft instead of competing against Microsoft.

    Fpor the record, Digital had office suite and GUI word processor well
    before Microsoft had anything credible in that area, complete with
    clustering, networking and prop]er backup, well before microsoft had
    anything comparable. Yet, Digital chose to price itself outof the market.

    VMS management has hoped that by repeating "there is no demand for user
    interface in a server OS" that you will believe it and totally forget
    that VMS was designed to go from desktop to data centre.


    You need not look at what is left of VMS today, you need to look at the
    path it has taken in recent times. This points to its future because it
    is clear HP does not intent to lift a finger to change that path. And
    the path isn't a straight line, it is an exponential one (going down).

  16. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > Galen wrote:
    >> My current position is in the process of drying up. I have good
    >> prospects of other employment within my company (Booz Allen Hamilton)
    >> but none that involve VMS.

    >
    > If you have the opportunity to get your employer to pay for courses to
    > retrain you in other OS or networking, TAKE IT.
    >
    > Back in 1992, some politician said "It's the economy, stupid".
    >
    > For IT, one can say "It's the applications, stupid".
    >
    > And while I wouldn't wish anyone be forced to migrate to Windows, Unix
    > does offer a good compromise between a properly structured OS and
    > application availability.


    Getting training in RHEL, SLES or VMWare GSX should make good
    job possibilities for some years to come.

    Arne

  17. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Antonio Carlini wrote:
    > "Ken Robinson" wrote in
    > news:7dd80f60804021305i6ddd82f2k3fec8c60b0ed9e13@m ail.gmail.com:
    >> If you're not a member of LinkedIn I would
    >> recommend signing up there.

    >
    > I'm there so I had a quick look. LinkedIn claims not to know about any
    > UK VMS jobs, and presents a bunch (~250) from SimplyHired. A quick check on
    > a few (that weren't obvious duplicates) either were jobs that were no
    > longer available or jobs that had VMS in the list of requirements (usually
    > behind other requirements like "Microsoft" and "Unix").
    >
    > Maybe things are better in the US for VMS jobs (although maybe not judging
    > by the comments in the thread). Perhaps the jobs have all gone to the ~500
    > people who show up on a search for "OpenVMS".
    >
    > Is there a better way to use LinkedIn that I'm not aware of? (I'm not
    > looking for OpenVMS work, not even COBOL @ £650/day :-), I'm just curious).


    You do not use LinkedIn to use their job search function.

    You use LinkedIn to make you visible to recruiters and to
    reconnect to old colleagues that may know about a job.

    Arne

  18. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Main, Kerry wrote:
    > From: Malcolm Dunnett [mailto:nothome@spammers.are.scum]
    >> JF Mezei wrote:
    >>> Remember that many at HP have said that VMS would not be ported

    >> beyond
    >>> Itanium. This is a pretty strong message about its future.
    >>>

    >> Do you have references for this (eg who said it, when they said it,
    >> link to URL with this information) ?

    >
    > JF tends to infer things and then re-state them as facts to further his
    > own agenda.
    >
    > HP has always stated it requires a business justification to move to any
    > new platform. They never stated it would not be ported beyond Itanium.
    >
    > Any vendor would be nuts not to have this view.


    Obvious.

    They will do whatever and only what makes a profit.

    It is also known as running a business !

    The question is whether it would make sense to port VMS to x86-64
    in N years if Itanium is dropped.

    Arne

  19. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >
    > The question is whether it would make sense to port VMS to x86-64
    > in N years if Itanium is dropped.


    Because the installed base of VMS is shrinking, and no marketing is done
    to try to grow it, the longer it takes for them to put IA64 out of its
    misery, the smaller the remaining installed base will be for VMS. The
    smaller it is, the easier it will be to decide to not port VMS beyond IA64.

    It's that simple. HP is trying to give the appearance of taking good
    care of VMS when in fact, it is treating it like an elderly person,
    allowing it to stay stagnant in its old comfy chesterfield that is
    getting narrower and narrower every year. By the time they pull the
    plug, there will be very few left to mourn its passing and HP will have
    succesfully gotten rid of a pesky product without killing itself in the
    process (like DEC and Compaq).

  20. Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available

    In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes:
    >
    > Just as for any other server-OS on the planet, even 3270
    > on MVS is replaced by other client tools, web based or
    > whatever. VMS is no different than any other server-OS
    > in this regard.


    VMS may not be any different from other server OS in this
    respect, but in many ways as a general purpose OS we find that
    it is different.


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