VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. - VMS

This is a discussion on VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. - VMS ; In article , JF Mezei writes: >Robert Deininger wrote: > >> Paul Anderson keeps walking past my cube and muttering about tildes >> scattered around on the floor... > >If every tilde filtered by MAIL around the world ends up ...

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Thread: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

  1. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <47e21b55$0$3870$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >Robert Deininger wrote:
    >
    >> Paul Anderson keeps walking past my cube and muttering about tildes
    >> scattered around on the floor...

    >
    >If every tilde filtered by MAIL around the world ends up on the floor in
    >your offices, then this is a far more serious security and privacy issue
    >than previously thought. The thought of customer data ending up in your
    >offices (and on the floor nontheless) is very scary.
    >
    >I want HP to return every one of *MY* tildes that HP stole from my
    >machine, and will will not accept anyone else's tildes. And HP better
    >make sure the tildes are clean and undamaged from Paul Anderson walking
    >over them.
    >
    >(We should launch a class action suit on this, April 1 is coming very
    >soon :-) :-) :-) :-)


    I understand that several conspiratorial law firms are already scheming to
    leverage their powers of legally sanctioned extortion to collect on damages
    for your tildes. In this list are:

    Dewey, Cheatham and Howe
    Hassall, Payne and Suffren
    Lowe, Ball, Doolittle and Stahl
    Hyde, Price, Diddle and Runne
    Lawless, Savage, and Slaughter
    Assman, Hertz, and Boltz
    Crookes, Phelans and Deemans
    Blowe, Jobbs and Moorehead
    Benn, Dover, Grin and Barrett
    Little, Cox, Noah, Braynes and Littlemor

    You'll likely find all of the firms in the peoples republic of New Jermany.
    No surpise!

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  2. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    On Mar 20, 11:00*am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    Koehler) wrote:
    > In article , John Santos writes:


    [...snip...]

    I just received yesterday new MAIL.EXE files from Support for

    Alpha v8.3
    IA64 v8.2-1
    IA64 v8.3

    so if you have Support, they have been built and should be available
    today
    just for the asking.

    I just tested the IA64 v8.3 image and it works as described (using the
    process-level
    logical name MAIL$FILTER to control the ~ and } replacement ... and
    the only value
    that works, as mentioned in this thread, is DEFINE MAIL$FILTER
    1 ).

    I was told that formal MAIL patch kits have been requested and they
    should be
    available for everyone to download in about 8 weeks.

    ( as with many of you, we have had a VMS support contract it seems
    FOREVER, so I decided to exercise it when I came across this
    thread :-) )

    Verne Britton, WVNET

  3. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:
    >
    > It DOES show that VMS MAIL is still being "developed". While they're at
    > it, maybe they can get rid of the bugs introduced when it was rewritten
    > in C from BLISS.


    That really ought to be easy:

    cms set library vms_engineering_mail_utility
    cms remove element mail.c "full of bugs"
    cms reserve descrip.mms
    edit/edt descrip.mms
    s/mail.c/mail.bli/w
    exit
    cms replace descrip.mms
    mms/cms


  4. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <64dbouF2b27agU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >
    > And since when is a tilde by itself or contained within a URL: an
    > escape sequence? Why can't people just admit when they screw up?


    Some big customer complained and HP should have given them free
    working copies of a proper emulator, but instead they assigned
    it to some newbie in VMS engineering that doesn't understand
    upward compatability, or how to use VMS.

    Hopefully there are enough grey hairs left in VMS engineering that
    will see to it that this bug will get fixed.


  5. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article , John Santos writes:
    >
    > That's what I was thinking of, but couldn't remember the name. I've
    > never actually used it, so I don't know if it already does everything
    > you would need to fix the broken terminal emulator, but it is probably
    > pretty close.


    Yeah, I had to look it up. I kept thinking TFF, but I couldn't
    remember what the last F stood for (facility).

    You fix broken terminal emulators by replacing them. TFF, however,
    might be able to work around this one.


  6. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <47e21b55$0$3870$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
    jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca says...
    > Robert Deininger wrote:
    >
    > > Paul Anderson keeps walking past my cube and muttering about tildes
    > > scattered around on the floor...

    >
    > If every tilde filtered by MAIL around the world ends up on the floor in
    > your offices, then this is a far more serious security and privacy issue
    > than previously thought. The thought of customer data ending up in your
    > offices (and on the floor nontheless) is very scary.
    >
    > I want HP to return every one of *MY* tildes that HP stole from my
    > machine, and will will not accept anyone else's tildes. And HP better
    > make sure the tildes are clean and undamaged from Paul Anderson walking
    > over them.
    >
    > (We should launch a class action suit on this, April 1 is coming very
    > soon :-) :-) :-) :-)
    >


    JF, if you've been keeping up with the "Mac OS/X is better than VMS"
    thread (which I think you should since you started it!), I think
    Alan and David must at some point mentioned the concept of degeneracy
    (all fundamental particles of a given type and state are the same,
    I.e. they can be interchanged without changing the state of the system.)

    Tilde's are tilde's, you can't claim that certain ones are your and
    others are not. Curly brackets, on the other hand...

    --
    John

  7. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article
    ,
    Verne writes:

    > On Mar 20, 11:00=A0am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
    > Koehler) wrote:
    > > In article , John Santos=

    > writes:
    >
    > [...snip...]
    >
    > I just received yesterday new MAIL.EXE files from Support for
    >
    > Alpha v8.3
    > IA64 v8.2-1
    > IA64 v8.3


    So with 8.X will there ever be a PROPER fix (i.e. restoring the old
    behaviour), or will we have to keep this logical name around? Will it
    at least get completely fixed in 8.4?

    This really shows how quality control has gone down the drain. The
    problem was a red herring, the security issue was a red herring, the fix
    is silly, and was feisted upon everyone rather than as a special image
    on the people who wrongly complained in the first place!


  8. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:

    > This really shows how quality control has gone down the drain.


    The only thing of value VMS still has is the clustering software. The
    rest is all "legacy". When HP retires VMS, if the clustering is still
    state of the art, they may get a few pennies giving it to Microsoft (again).

    The rest doesn't need to have much quality control or development.

  9. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <47e32132$1$23906$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes:
    >Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    >
    >> This really shows how quality control has gone down the drain.

    >
    >The only thing of value VMS still has is the clustering software. The
    >rest is all "legacy". When HP retires VMS, if the clustering is still
    >state of the art, they may get a few pennies giving it to Microsoft (again).


    Where it will be lost to antiquity or it will be so completely ****ed up
    by Micro$oft that it will be too bloated to be useful for anything. I'd
    highly doubt that latter as Micro$oft can't seem to get Weendoze to run
    and coordinate several applications/processes on one machine; why would
    they be interested in trying it amongst several instances of Weendoze?



    >The rest doesn't need to have much quality control or development.


    Sounds like it's perfect for that miniscule-n-flaccid organization.

    --
    VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"

    http://tmesis.com/drat.html

  10. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <47e32132$1$23906$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
    JF Mezei writes:
    > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    >
    >> This really shows how quality control has gone down the drain.

    >
    > The only thing of value VMS still has is the clustering software. The
    > rest is all "legacy". When HP retires VMS, if the clustering is still
    > state of the art, they may get a few pennies giving it to Microsoft (again).
    >
    > The rest doesn't need to have much quality control or development.


    Considering the internal differences between VMS and everything
    else, not even the clustering code would be worth anything to anybody
    else.

    bill

    --
    Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
    billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
    University of Scranton |
    Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include

  11. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <64hl7oF2c3h0sU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    > In article <47e32132$1$23906$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
    > JF Mezei writes:
    >> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    >>
    >>> This really shows how quality control has gone down the drain.

    >>
    >> The only thing of value VMS still has is the clustering software. The
    >> rest is all "legacy". When HP retires VMS, if the clustering is still
    >> state of the art, they may get a few pennies giving it to Microsoft (again).
    >>
    >> The rest doesn't need to have much quality control or development.

    >
    > Considering the internal differences between VMS and everything
    > else, not even the clustering code would be worth anything to anybody
    > else.
    >


    M$lop had the clustering code and couldn't make it work. I saw some
    demos of NT clustering, but outside of tradeshow razzmatazz I haven't
    seen it work. (And for all I know, and knowing how M$lop works, the
    tradeshow demo was probably just a well timed PowerPoint with no
    connection to a real system doing failover).

  12. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article <64hl7oF2c3h0sU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    >In article <47e32132$1$23906$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
    > JF Mezei writes:
    >> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:
    >>
    >>> This really shows how quality control has gone down the drain.

    >>
    >> The only thing of value VMS still has is the clustering software. The
    >> rest is all "legacy". When HP retires VMS, if the clustering is still
    >> state of the art, they may get a few pennies giving it to Microsoft (again).
    >>
    >> The rest doesn't need to have much quality control or development.

    >
    >Considering the internal differences between VMS and everything
    >else, not even the clustering code would be worth anything to anybody
    >else.


    I'm under the impression it was of interest to Oracle, and that 9RAC was based
    on it. Could be wrong, though.

    -- Alan

  13. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.MICROSOFT CLUSTERS

    On Mar 21, 7:51*pm, kuhrt.nospa...@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)
    wrote:
    > In article <64hl7oF2c3h0...@mid.individual.net>, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
    > > In article <47e32132$1$23906$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>,
    > > * *JF Mezei writes:
    > >> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:

    >
    > >>> This really shows how quality control has gone down the drain.

    >
    > >> The only thing of value VMS still has is the clustering software. The
    > >> rest is all "legacy". When HP retires VMS, if the clustering is still
    > >> state of the art, they may get a few pennies giving it to Microsoft (again).

    >
    > >> The rest doesn't need to have much quality control or development.

    >
    > > Considering the internal differences between VMS and everything
    > > else, not even the clustering code would be worth anything to anybody
    > > else.

    >
    > M$lop had the clustering code and couldn't make it work.


    fwiw, a recent blog entry in that space I stumbled into..

    http://pluralsight.com/blogs/jimjohn.../16/50489.aspx

    Yes, that OpenVMS / RMS / ... Jim Johnson

    Cheers,
    Hein.

  14. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    JF Mezei wrote:
    > I think there is a lot more to the story.
    >
    > Remember that HP is out to prove that nobody uses MAIL or any other
    > interactive utility. They probably embedded that absolutely absurd
    > tilde replacement as a bet to see whether anyone would notice, or how
    > long it would take before someone complained.

    Cynicism is alive and well.
    >
    > And it took longer than a year for anyone to notice. HP's got its
    > answer. They can now produce some powerpoint that states that those
    > remaining customers who do upgrade their VMS systems do not use use VMS
    > interactively, only those stuck at older versions still use the legacy
    > VMS interactive utilities. This means that they can now justify no
    > longer working on interactive utilities (not that they did much work on
    > them anymore).


    [snip]

    Even if this was not the *intended* motive, it's clear to some of us that this story will be
    used just as you indicate. No matter how ya slice it - it's not the best reflection on
    our VMS community.

    However, this episode doesn't prove anything about our use of DCL which is still the
    most popular VMS "interactive utility".

    . fred bach music at triumf dot c a

  15. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article , Fred Bach wrote:

    > JF Mezei wrote:
    > > I think there is a lot more to the story.
    > >
    > > Remember that HP is out to prove that nobody uses MAIL or any other
    > > interactive utility. They probably embedded that absolutely absurd
    > > tilde replacement as a bet to see whether anyone would notice, or how
    > > long it would take before someone complained.

    > Cynicism is alive and well.
    > >
    > > And it took longer than a year for anyone to notice. HP's got its
    > > answer. They can now produce some powerpoint that states that those
    > > remaining customers who do upgrade their VMS systems do not use use VMS
    > > interactively, only those stuck at older versions still use the legacy
    > > VMS interactive utilities. This means that they can now justify no
    > > longer working on interactive utilities (not that they did much work on
    > > them anymore).

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > Even if this was not the *intended* motive, it's clear to some of us that
    > this story will be
    > used just as you indicate. No matter how ya slice it - it's not the best
    > reflection on
    > our VMS community.
    >
    > However, this episode doesn't prove anything about our use of DCL which is
    > still the
    > most popular VMS "interactive utility".


    Hi Fred,

    Do you have what you need to work around this problem in the short term?


    As I indicated in another post, patch kits have been requested for
    several VMS versions. They will be posted in due course. Supported
    customers who don't want to wait for the patch kits can get the existing
    images by requesting them through the regular support channels.

    I expect this section of MAIL will get a clean-up pass before the next
    VMS release.


    My only other advice on the topic is to ignore the fantasies here in
    comp.os.vms. JF and others seem to enjoy wild speculation, but on this
    topic they miss reality pretty much completely.

    When I checked the records, I found:

    1) Everyone involved in both changes to MAIL was a Nashua-based,
    multi-decade VMS veteran. This includes the engineer (not customer) who
    reported the original problem, the engineer who made the changes to
    MAIL, and the engineers who reviewed the changes. A bad solution
    slipped through, plain and simple. It happens. Every veteran engineer
    has made his share of silly mistakes. (It's the newbies who have never
    busted anything. :-)

    2) I saw no evidence of any management decisions (or awareness) about
    how the problem report was handled. Speculating about what this MAIL
    bug means about VMS (or HP) policy is just silly. (That's why I expect
    it to continue unabated here in c.o.v.)

    -- Robert

  16. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Robert Deininger wrote:

    > My only other advice on the topic is to ignore the fantasies here in
    > comp.os.vms. JF and others seem to enjoy wild speculation, but on this
    > topic they miss reality pretty much completely.


    There are conspiracy theories and there are conspiracy theories. I think
    the ones in this thread have been obviously stupid enough that nobody
    should have taken them seriously.

    Now, when you guys move out of ZKO, will the tildes that HP steals from
    our emails still end up being dumped on the floor at ZKO ?

  17. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    Patch VMS83I_MAILSHR-V0100 has been announced, I expect the patches
    for other versions will follow.


  18. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.

    In article
    <1d5a0473-4dee-4cf2-b05f-ce6f867fd41b@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
    IanMiller wrote:

    > Patch VMS83I_MAILSHR-V0100 has been announced, I expect the patches
    > for other versions will follow.


    I see corresponding patches for VMS732, VMS82A and VMS83A available as
    of 5-Apr-2008 on the ITRC site.

    --
    Paul Sture

    Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
    http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~stu...bookmarks.html

  19. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign.


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